Symbols don't do that. That's what icons do, but again, their meaning is is constructed in the physical world and not in in the pshyche.
AGAIN, my point was that we are all the same species. It was a very simplistic statement. Almost daily, I am told how eccentric I am (and that's putting it nicely). Perception is the key to who we are. It doesn't matter where you came from or where you are going. Yes, life is very short. That's why it's safer to pretend.
This is quite a complex subject. Apologies for large sections of pasted text, but it will explain things better than i am capable of at this moment in time. When i said "They are energy forms of sorts in themselves, each shape conveying different vibrations/frequencies to our psyche..." ...(underlined part) would be a better explanation. Which is why my statement reads "some symbols are universal due to the fact that as humans, we all have certain psychological reference points in common / are all subject to certain fundamental laws of existence. " Makes sense to me.
Does anyone else need about 7 doobies of the goodstuff to make sense of the ideas that Nursey and STD are trying to convey? **Lights it up** Puff Puff Pass Next!
I'm sorry nursey, but you're quoting from theorists who died hundreds of years ago. The world has moved on, people just don't swallow crap about mystical forces and sixth senses - we have science now (and have even started to move beyond that), and proper educational institutions who have debated this thing for centuries, and all of them gave up on your arguments a long time ago. Some more apropriate and up to date reading would be something like this, it's a little simplistic without any backup, but I'll get to that:
OK, it's not foucault, but his work is too hard to find on the net (with copyright laws), but a lot of his work was based on the work of saussure (which isn't perfect, it's based solely on litterary texts) but you can get a general idea of what influenced him. http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/S4B/semiotic.html And if you can find anything from Steven Hall, read it, his work is fantastic.
But symbols are never universal, you can say that some icons can be universal, but not symbols. And accepting that some icons can be universal due to factors in the physical, material world, you're then going off on a tangent about spirituality and energy forms. You seem to be arguing two different sides.
I might not agree with all of C.G Jung's teachings, but i find his views on symbols are congruous with my own observations of personal experience, which is why i quote him so much on the subject. And he died in 1961 ...started to move beyond that.......into what? An Einstein quote (from memory) "Anyone studying physics long enough is inevitabley led into the subject of metaphysics" More Einstein quotes: "The skeptic will say: "It may well be true that this system of equations is reasonable from a logical standpoint. But this does not prove that it corresponds to nature." You are right, dear skeptic. Experience alone can decide on truth." "Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it." A little on C.G. Jung... [Smug Alabama drawl]When the truth confronts, absurdity is sure to follow.[/Smug Alabama drawl] 8) Seriously though, that's a pretty outrageous statement! Can you explain exactly how you came to that conclusion? And what are Barry and Dr. Bungle's opinions on all this?
OK, I got his date of death wrong, although he would have been perfectly situated in the middle ages. There's nothing absurd or outrageous about what I said. People's belief in a soul or an "essence" has caused all sorts of terrible things in the past. A belief that we have a destiny, has kept kings in power and oppressed the commoners for thousands of years. They all believed that god had chosen their destiny and they couldn't break free from it. The idea that disabled people are paying for terrible things they did in a previous life. Hitler used it as an argument to kill 6 million jews. He convinced the german people that all non-germanic races were sub-human. And the example I used, portraying africans as having no soul turned them into animals in the mind's of the europeans, and justified the terrible things they did to them. I don't believe my destiny is planned for me. I don't believe that I'm stuck in the same class I was born into - I can get an education, I can work hard and I can transcend classes if I wish. I don't believe that different races are somehow different from me on a humane level - that just causes stereotypes and racism. Your idea of an inner identity, that resonates with mystical symbols is simply crap - and that's just an obversation I've noted every time I've met an arab who identifies with western cultures and doesn't hear the call of his ancestors to slay the infadels. One I've noted when I've seen disabled people who are perfectly capable of forming meaningful relationships and experiencing normal human emotions. There is no "inner-self". You have created your identity. You are responsible for all the terrible things you've done, messages from god wont cut it as a defense these days. You are likewise responsible for all the good things you've done, god hasn't decided your personality for you.
It's based on the question of "what is truth?" We moved from a phase where truth was dictated by religeous dogma, where people whole-heartedly believed what church and state told them, into a phase where people whole-heartedly believed science would reveal the "truth", and now we're beyond that. We realise truth is a personal construct (not universal) made through our own experiences, and how can science explain something as profound and complex as that? It can't.
you know canine.. i've been reading through this thread.. taking in both sides of the argument.. thinking you both have some good points.. and have made them pretty well.... then you go make a pigshit ignorant racist remark like that.. looks like you still haven't managed to rise above your inherent north-west little englander mindset....
Well my excuse would be that it was used as an example, as something many people think and say (kilroy being a good example here) and using their own words to connect them to nursey's comments (of an inner self) and contrast them with the arabs I've met who don't fit those stereotypes. It's also a very common issue in popular culture, what with the war and everything, and Fox News' great stereotypes of Iraqis and "Insurgents". What's your excuse for doing the same, and I won't accept that you're allowed to steretype your own kind, that's a pathetic excuse. Although you have proven a point, that meaning is subjective, and you truthfully believed it a racist comment enough to make an absolute prick of yourself. Stick to reading it pimp.
i live in BNP central... i hear comments like that all the time... and stupid bullshit justifications for them.... it's no stereotype...
You just don't get it do you pimp? It was supposed to be a "pigshit ignorant racist remark" -- that was the whole fucking point! And if your comments about north-western englishmen aren't steroetypes, then you would be applauding the comments, not arguing with them. I don't recall nursey calling for her pathetic lap-dog either pimp, she asked for barry and schmed I think, why not go back to your basket until you're needed?
lap-dog?.. yeah yeah whatever i'll leave you to your grown-up discusserising then :roll: i so wanted to bring the DNA angle into it too
I'm just sitting here thinking 'what the fuck!?' Yet again, a calm, good natured, rational debate has suddenly turned into a bizarre onslaught with hints of personal jibes and accusations that i'm like some fascist dictator...Bush the first time...Hitler this time round. How the hell is half of what you've attributed to me got anything to do with what we've discussed til now? And Barry and Dr. Bungle are as likely to disagree with me as they are to agree, i just wanted to get some extra perspectives in the debate, and Pimp has just got back after a week away and had already got intrested in the thread before you set things off on the tangent they're on now.
