Were the Levees Intentionally Blown?

Poor poor diogenes. You see, when they go down they simply go underground where you can't see them. The elements in our government who are overturning parts of this Patriot Act are simply americans who love their freedom. The new laws are being passed everyday anyways, and when the dictatorship comes, you can believe that they'll in turn overrule the overrulings of these old freedom loving judges who hadn't been paid off. The amazing grab of power of these men and the how they're pulling out all the stops leads me to believe that they aren't simply going to say "alright, we've been made" and give up once the people get smart.

And yes, all these groups of people would still fight for survival and fight the occupation, but it's a good thing these Neo-cons are patient. Cut off the "just-in-time" deliveries of food, dam the rivers and all these groups are kind of in a bind, and would probably destroy each other trying to save the last bits for themselves. You don't have to control the entire damn country, you only have to control the food and water, everyone else will form a line waiting to ask you for the shit.

And as for Hitler invading Russia thinking he could occupy it, how crazy is that? Hitler knew he wouldn't stand a chance against Russia and the allies armies, much less occupy anything. Something existed inside the Leningradskaya oblast itself that Hitler wanted to grab a hold of, so bad that he risked the outcome of the war over it. When word reached Stalin that Leningrad was in danger of falling to the Nazi Forces he ordered the entire Soviet Military to protect the area, even to the sacrificing of Moscow itself. As history shows however Hitler didn't get his paws on it, and whatever was there was saved. Bone up on history, learn to read between the lines, and get back to me on that will ya?

And as for the checks and balances you talk of, do you mean the other branches of the government? Because I know the executive, legislative, and judicial branch were all meant to check the powers of each other. Everything that checks the government, including the media, has been bought out. Who up there really wants to stop meth? It keeps us dumb. We're not in any sort of conservative movement, by the way. Any real conservative movement would look far too liberal for the path we're on.

 

smurfslappa, I have to admit now you have piqued my interest..exactly WHAT was there of such importance in leningrad then, in your opinion?

And a big part of me does think that the poor and black population of Nawlins were screwed once, by the flood when the levees broke, and shall be screwed again when the landgrabbers and speculators come in for the kill..

But none if it is new..you mentioned Aztlan..also, there was the trail of tears that my ancestors went through many years ago..only to have the land taken from them again in what was the biggest 'land rush' in our history..and Oklahoma is so proud of them, they even named their favorite football team after those who jumped the claim and staked out what land they wanted ahead of everyone else..the 'sooners'.

Was I the only one totally disgusted when I found out that Halliburton was going to have the job of helping clean up Nawlins?

Cheney ain't going anywere..his past history of heart attacks, notwithstanding...he will be too busy gleefully counting his mony.

 

Here is the post you have all been waiting for that will bring an end to all the specualtion and uncertainty that has arisen in you about this subject taxing your meager brain resources. If you would have us believe these conspiracy theories perhaps you can explain why it's always the crazy uncle with schizoaffective disorder hiding in his basement with his tinfoil hat on so his brain waves can't be intercepted and not the physics professor. Why is it always the screwed up chick who was raped by her brother and then her father five minutes later while her mother sat and ate pop corn who works in the record store with a mohalk dyed three different colors? What is the point in these people coming up with this shit you ask? It's simple because they are screwed up the want the rest of the world to be screwed up so they can feel more normal.

 

Those people just want someone to pay attention to them, and of course people do. Smurfslappa, who the hell is the "they" you're refering to going "underground." As for the delivery of the food at the last minute, the United States has so much grain stored up from subsidizing farmers we don't know what to do with it anymore. The idea they'll "cut off the food supply" is kind of vague. How exactly do you propose they're going to do that? Bread lines, cut off the water? Hitler was crazy, that's why he invaded Russia. He believed in the inherent superiority of the German people. Kind of the way the Neo-cons view the United States as Gods chosen people. Their is no God to choose people, and the Neo-cons are gonna go down. If Stalin ordered the entire Soviet Military to defend Leningrad, then why were Zhukovs armies fighting von Brocks armies outside of Moscow. The Soviet Army counter-attacked von Brocks central army with 40 divisions. Meanwhile Leningrad was undergoing a blockade by the Nazi's and constant artillery bombardment. It's a military case study in why siege warfare does not work. The Nazi's had absolute advantage and pissed it away trying to starve the city. If the Nazi's had desperately wanted something in Stalingrad, they would have taken the city, not put it under siege.

Conspiracy theories are nice, they're fun to spin out, but actually believing this requires something I'm not capable of, and that's suspension of rational disbelief. If the levee's we're blown intentionally, it wasn't done to create a training ground for military rule, it was done so not all of the levees would break, or some slightly more selfish reason like trying to save certain parts of the city. Kind of like intentionally causing an avalanche.

 

I will have to agree with Dan on his point. I still think that he is a Twit, but he is right on target (for once.)

Barry

 

Diogenes you still miss the point, the whole "We're gonna attack Russia" idea wasn't based on the "We're superior" idea. That's where all the lies begin. Give the participants in this war a certain personality, and that'll explain their irrational behavior. The Nazi's knew they didn't stand a chance against both forces on both fronts, who ever wants to fight that war, especially when your forces are growing exhausted? I didn't say whatever had the Nazi's interest was in Leningrad, I said it was in the Leningradskaya oblast which includes much of the area.

And as for Zhukov's armies fighting von Brocks, they were simply stalling the Nazis from advancing upon the oblast from the south. A two front military force on the area would have definetly crushed the Russians. And Hitler was hoping that in taking Moscow, moral and communications would be disrupted amongst the Russians just long enough to take the prize. The Nazis didn't have absolute advantage, taking a location that has had every available piece of equipment and man sent to it is kind of tough to bring down.

And how is it kind of vague that they'll cut off the food supply? "They" don't have to do anything really, except bungle up the whole trucking and supply line like they did before in Louisiana. Shut down a few more gas refineries, cause some power outages, a big disaster to excuse it all and there you go. There's already a fuel crisis in the airline industry, and it's just a hop skip and a jump away from moving over to the truckers and average Joe driver. All anyone has to do nowadays to go crazy is to hear that the shit might go down in their town, and that'll be the big snowball that brings us down. A disruption in communication and supplies, and having our faith in the system shot.

As it says on the back of the New Hampshire quarter, "Live Free or Die" and I see a whole lot of people giving up their freedoms.

 

And please Diogenes, you seemed oh so interested in understanding what I was trying to explain to you about the climate collapse and the energy blasts. You even said I was providing "tremendous amounts of evidence" but that I wasn't "linking it together in any meaningful fashion."

Well Diogenes, maybe your inability of suspending rational belief is actually your inability to suspend your belief in "the system."

I've underlined the cause of our freakish weather. I've spelt out where this is going to lead us, and that is into the failure of our agriculture. I've even talked about the military movements worldwide, it's aknowledged, and yet you can't "link it together in any meaningful fashion" inside your very own head?

And while it remains that the balance of power was shifted away from Germany after WWII, who's to say the dangerous elements behind that power were completely crushed. While Hitler and his other Nazi friends were crushed, the real driving force, influence, and ideas fled elsewhere. You can see the same kind of power grabs in our world today.

Oh and dangerous Dan, the reason why it's always these people is because they have a little more spare time than others. It's the people who don't spend every second of their life on various activities or their life's work so that they don't have any spare time to research up on the end of it all. Also, because they want it to happen more than others do so that their miserable existence is ended, and so they're more accepting of the notion.

However, lately, I've been hearing from more and more people about how shit is fucked up, including professors. Like I've said, I've listened to the professor James Mccanney for a while, and he seems to be growing a little paranoid as well. Studying what was going on with the sun and the serious implications of these problems, he sees what our government is doing about it now. He only used to babble about science, now he babbles about science and politics and survival.

And it's not just him, it's many many scientists. What with all the bulletins about the Bird Flu pandemic that's coming, or global warming, or astronomers, or geologists and the earthquakes, or oceanographers worried about the coral reefs or the missing plankton, or the dying birds.

Please, don't insult me with a stupid remark like "It's only the chicks with the mohawks talking about it," or "the molestation victims."

 

smurfslappa has a point about it being easy to cut off the food supply... anyone interested should read up about the 2000 (y2k) fuel protests here in britain... after five days this country was at a standstill and they had to bring in the army to get rid of the fuel protesters.. because any longer and anarchy would have broken out..

 

Smurf, have you read Mein Kampf. Hitler explains his logic for why he thought he could invade the Soviet Union long before he actually did. He is quoted as having said that "the untire Soviet Union is like a condemned house, all you need do is kick in the door and the whole rotten structure would collapse." They also didn't rely on their intelligence telling them the Soviets had a new main battle tank. Their are much more reliable reasons for why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, like the reasons he gave for invading the Soviet Union, than that there was something in the Leningradskaya Obla that Hitler wanted. What was it, the Ark of the Covenant, maybe the holy grail? By the way Smurf, I don't really have a rational belief in "the system." I think the system is inherently corrupt, just not at the level that you do. Checks and balances are an industrial age machine designed to minimize the corrupting influence any one individual can have on the government. The industrial age has passed. It's my personal belief that the time for the industrial age government machine has passed as well. I don't think it's going on, but the possibility of a compassionate conspiracy is real. Maybe they really do know better than we do what's going on? And why the hell are we talking about operation Barbarossa in a forum about whether or not the levees were blown intentionally? I used the Nazi's as an example of what can happen when a groups reach exceeds its grasp. I don't think the levees were blown intentionally to set up some kind of military training ground. It doesn't add up, do you have any evidence that might change my mind?

 

Also, read "Fast Food Nation- the Dark Side of the All-American meal" - it will open eyes regarding how the government have forced private ranchers and cattle farms out of commission by slowly raising costs and sabotoging their ability to run, and operate private sector farms.

I do believe that we could all be coerced into complacency by cutting off water and/or food supplies, which is precisely why we must never give up our rights to own a firearm...which really starts a whole other debate on the NRA (I'm a definate supporter), one which I'm not going to get into.

Everyone has made some really profound statements....but I'm of the mindset that Barry takes. Besides, I have something not everyone here has: faith that things happen for a reason and we are following a grand plan.

 

so do conspiracy theorists

 

My bad, it wasn't Stalingrad, that was a typo in the last line of that post, that entire post revolved around Moscow and Leningrad. Stalingrad was much further south. I don't think it's the government that's really messing up the food supply and making this fast food nation scenario, it's private interests, and they're way too powerful. Time to revamp the system. Corporate america and government america should be worst enemies, not best friends. If the levees were blown it was on behalf of private interests, not the government. The government is like that fat kid in high school. To slow to actually do anything, even if he wanted to.

 

At what point did you miss the fact that private interests have taken over the government? Obviously you need a crash course buddy because as I've said before, government and private firms go hand in hand nowadays.

War Corporatism

Geez, some things I think people can do on their own...

Now dude, work with me here. I'm trying to open your eyes to the big thing, and with this hurricane Rita coming, I don't think there's much time. These most powerful families and connections to them around the world have been running the show for a while. A long ass while you all have to know.

Are they pushing an unhealthy diet? Yes, and it'll be no wonder when this coming pandemic wipes out so many "young, healthy adults." Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918

The most powerful elements of these so called lost empires and reichs and civilizations have never lost their power since it was the influence that was really behind them. If in saying that is not true, we should look at the world today as an example of how things have always been.

What ever happened to the druids? Those guys believed hardcore in what they did, whatever that was. They're not gone because they fucked up, they're gone because they got with the times and went low profile.

So get a clue, watch this Rita, and be ready to go into survival mode.

 

Oh and by the way, I think the Avian flu has made that one small step to human to human transmission. In India, thousands of children are dying from flu-like symptoms and they're rediculously calling it Japanese Encephalitis

They're calling it encephalitis under heavy pressures from the United States calling for India's leaders to blackout all news regarding this pandemic. For their doing so we've entered into a secret nuclear agreement with India, who had been under various US and UN sanctions for its unauthorized development of nuclear weapons, and as we can read as reported by India’s Hindustan Times News Service in their article titled [http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1485639,00050001.htm]"Indo-US N-deal signed in haste and secrecy: Expert"[/url]

Nice knowing you all, they're keeping it under wraps to spread that bitch.

 

Based on the information that's surfacing - from a variety of different angles (significantly), i'd say that too many question marks surround the subject for it to be nothing more than a vague, hypothetical notion of what is *possible*. When there is smoke, does that suggest that fire is 'possible' or 'probable'? In this instance, and based on the patterns that are emerging about the Bush administration and what they're capable of, i personally believe it's probable, but that's my prerogative.

As has been pointed out, the situation in New Orleans is going to be used as an excuse to give Bush far greater powers. Just like 9-11.

If it was solely about grabbing the land, then no doubt they would just go about it by conventional methods.

I suspect they underestimated the indomnitable spirit and courage of the Iraqi people (though that said, it's plain they never had any intention of leaving, so it's easier to supposedly 'legitimise' their reasons for building 14 military bases with the continuing upheaval), a country with a 6000+ year history and the self-assured sense of identity that results from such deep seated roots. The U.S., by comparison, has a 300 year history, and are putty in the hands of those pulling the strings. On the whole, the people are lost. Look how easily they are manipulated by advertising and propaganda. The rest of the world sees it even if Americans don't. Coupled with that is the fact that they are totally dependant on the state for everything including knowing when to wipe their bottoms and pull up their pants. And yes, i'm generalising, but isn't it the general consensus which counts? Unfortunately, the minorities that exist on the fringe don't hold much sway when it comes to influencing which direction the stampeding herd takes, and those in power know it.

Well then, i'm glad to hear you aren't foolish enough to believe the popular conspiracy theory regarding 9-11. The one that claims the operation was a plot hatched and masterminded from a cave in Afghanistan and perpetrated by hard-partying.... 'Jihadists'(!?) armed with nothing but boxcutters and trained in cessna light aircraft and flight simulators to 'crack fighter pilot' degrees of skill...who left 'How to fly' flight manuals and Korans in the airport carpark, and whose passports seem to be made of materials more indestructible than aircraft black boxes. And that fundamental laws of physics were somehow given a day off with the collapse of the towers. (Amongst numerous other ridiculous claims). Or are you?


I've been ridiculed in the past for my claims that a many of the 'terrorist activities' in Iraq attributed to the Iraqi resistance were actually the work of U.S/Israeli/British black-ops...i suppose you've seen the latest news...about the two British undercover soldiers disguised as arabs in a car packed with explosives shooting an Iraqi policeman? Like i said, chaos serves a purpose in itself, and the plan now is to stir up all out civil war in Iraq...are you capable of believing that?

I think you underestimate the ruthlessness of the elite who are willing to sacrifice the lives of millions+ in their plans for world domination. So did i once upon a time - when i was a little more naive.

 

While I still think that Nursey doesn't quite realize how old this plan is, or why it's even around, she's still a lot higher up the ladder than most of you pansies.

 

You might be surprised.

 

yeah.. she's currently firmly entrenched a couple of rungs below me, salivating like a rabid racoon, with her beady lasvicious eyes fixed firmly upon the glittering opals within my skirt regions, whilst gesticulating suggestively with an overbaked baguette that seems to have been suspiciously slathered in the best organic extra virgin olive oil :? :!:



sometimes she scares me....

 

Yeah, Pimp is the second cumming....can you tell?

 

seems a little too genetically inferior to be the second coming if you ask me