R.I.P. Common Sense

Discussion in 'More Serious Topics' started by Cheezedawg, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. Cheezedawg

    Cheezedawg New Member

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    I found this on a wall at a deli the other day.

    Today we mourn the passing of a beloved friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons such as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; Why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and Maybe it was my fault.
    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).
    His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student---- only made his condition worse.
    Common Sense lost even more ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer first aid cream, sun lotion or a band-aid to a student, but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
    Common Sense finally lost the will to live when the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a severe beating when defending yourself from a burglar in your own home meant the burglar could sue you for assault.
    Common Sense finally gave up when a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a liottle on her arm and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
    Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents. Truth and Trust. His wife, Discreion. His daughter, Responsibility. And his son, Reason. He is survived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else Is To Blame; and I'm a Victim.
     
  2. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    Very well illustrated. and the saddest day in our time. With that being said, I will observe a moment of silence for Common Sense.
     
  3. Nauseous

    Nauseous Active Member

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    10,886
    Pretty damn accurate!
     
  4. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    While the celebration continues.



    Some people seem to have forgot Thomas Jefferson's words that all people are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, key among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.



    So the Democrats will leave the country like they left Washington DC after the presidential inauguration.



    Meanwhile we are at a cross roads.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY

    What do you know President Reagan without a teleprompter. The media called him a an idiot. The same media that calls Obama "eloquent, intelligent, well spoken" And Obama cannot manage to speak publicly without someone to tell him what to say. Simply amazing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  5. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    Well at least

    Former president Carter is a winner in this deal.

     
  6. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    It's a little unfair to denigrate Obama on the simple fact that he uses teleprompters. I mean, literally every single president in office has used them since their invention. Bush Jr used them and still managed to stumble on his words. It's such a nitpicky thing to bitch about anyway, whether he uses teleprompters or not has nothing to do with politics. I think the NRC is running out of ideas and they resorted to school yard tactics and name calling. I mean, the "sheeples" of the right must be under a powerful spell to believe that teleprompter reading (or lack of) is something important.

    I thought that with the bill passing in the senate you would be starting threads about how "the world as you know it is about to end", but no, Obama uses teleprompters. What a scoop!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  7. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    595
    Bush took that title years ago... Old joke, old news, and same Ol' Joe.
     
  8. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    Reagan had access to a teleprompter and spoke on his own. You avoided hearing Reagan in his own words didn't you?

    No your wrong Obama's use of the teleprompter is unprecidented he used a teleprompter to address a classroom of elementary school children. He is an idiot. He takes one with him wherever he goes.

    Does the world end when we give up our freedom to buy some level of security we do not need, feed and nourish an evermore growing government to rule over us?

    Yes the end of the world as we know it.
     
  9. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    8,426
    Reagan had access to a teleprompter and spoke on his own. You avoided hearing Reagan in his own words didn't you?

    No your wrong Obama's use of the teleprompter is unprecidented he used a teleprompter to address a classroom of elementary school children. He is an idiot. He takes one with him wherever he goes.

    Does the world end when we give up our freedom to buy some level of security we do not need, feed and nourish an evermore growing government to rule over us?

    Yes the end of the world as we know it.
     
  10. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    595
    Well if the guy is an idiot how do you explain him being president? It's easy to sit at home and write blogs or threads, even easier to judge and denigrate. The guy carries the economy, well being, and diplomacy of a country on his shoulders. I don't think it's easy being in charge of a country, every single decision he makes affects the lives of over 300 million people. And it's impossible to please everyone.

    Think about it, when social security was ratified in 1935, the republicans were jumping up and down in the aisles of the senate screaming outrage. They argued that it was a "government takeover" and that it would ruin the country. They (the republicans) claimed that it would create job loss, in retrospective, this turned out to be false. The introduction of social security encouraged old workers to retire, therefore creating new jobs for young workers. Can you imagine your life or your parents' life without pension? By the way, the country is still in one piece, the act didn't ruin anything.

    Truth is, the insurance companies don't oppose the health care bill. It will bring millions of customers into their firms with guaranteed payments. This is something you have to get through your thick skull, the government will not take over health care. The insurance companies will not die out and the doctors will remain in business. Instead of making monthly payments to an insurance company you will pay taxes. The percentage taken from you will roughly be the same as the payments you already make to the private firms. So instead of receiving a bill and dealing with a private company, you will simply present a card. The hospital or doctor will charge the government and whatever it costs will be deducted from the public fund.

    Another benefit is that all the people on Medicare will be moved into the private system again. That will cut spending by billions of dollars every year. The losses of starting the program will be recovered in just a few years with the money saved on Medicare.

    Sometimes doing what is right is worth more than all the money in the world. I cannot understand how you oppose something that will save thousands of lives every year. A healthier population is more productive, the benefits do not only stop at health care. The insurance companies will grow to accommodate the increase of customers, therefore creating more employment.

    This is how I feel about it. As the end user you will not spend anymore money than you do now and you (your kids as well) are guaranteed 100% coverage. The private firms will remain in business and people will stop dying uselessly.
     
  11. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    "They (the republicans)"

    Give me some names please.

    "claimed that it would create job loss, in retrospective, this turned out to be false. The introduction of social security encouraged old workers to retire, therefore creating new jobs for young workers."

    Really? Show me the facts.

    "the republicans were jumping up and down in the aisles of the senate screaming outrage."

    Once again who? Which Republicans? Where do you get your facts?

    Social Security has been a scam since its inception. A farce, an accounting trick. The government pays the old people their earned retirement and uses the system as a means to extort more money out of the people a reason to raise more taxes. Spending money on their frivolous pork projects till its all gone then saying that the Republicans don't like old people, school children and have not a heart to care for the unhealthy amongst us cause the Republicans don't want to raise taxes.

    Never mind the fact if congress would abstain from their pork projects there would be plenty of money and we could actually lower taxes.
     
  12. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms

    1. You are young and don't want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the "privilege." (Section 1501)

    2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You'll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That's because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person's health status. (Section 2701).

    3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

    4. Think you'd like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn't cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that's what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

    5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn't allow your employees' slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).

    6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.
    You're a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You're a woman who can't have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You're a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).
     
  13. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a "Bronze plan," which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d)(1)(A))

    8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you'd like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

    9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 50 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).
    10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can't do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

    11. If you are a physician and you don't want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It's not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients' care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))

    12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a "Medicare provider agreement" by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn't have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A)).

    13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can't (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).
     
  14. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed "unreasonable" by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

    15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).


    16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).
    The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

    17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

    18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

    19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).
    That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).

    20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).
     
  15. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    8,426
    Social Security and Medicare were bi-patisian bills

    And they were simple. You pay now for benefits later.

    Although the people in the long run were royally screwed by it.

    In the 1980s the City of Galveston opted out of paying into Social Security for its employees. And those employees. Simple Government paid mid level employees went on to retire wealthy and give money when they died to their family through inheritance.

    You don't believe me do you? :rolleyes:

    Go ahead call me a liar, I mean it really cannot be true can it? I mean if it were then both our American and Canadian "Fair and Balanced" Media would be telling us right?

    You bragged about how Canadian media just gives you the facts without all the partisan BS. So what does the Canadian media or for that matter your economics professor at your fair and balanced just the facts university say about Galveston's privatization of Social Security?

    You as 100 people about Texans not having to pay in or participate in Social Security and maybe one will know what you are talking about.

    So why all the secrecy?

    Every election year the Democrats rally the old people scare the shit our of them and tell them to "Go vote Democrat so the mean ole Republicans don't throw you out in the street"

    And it works marvelously. Why because of ignorance and stupidity. Typical Democrat voter a scared pathetic ignorant tool to be used by the politicians.

    IF ITS SO FUCKING GOOD WHY ARE THE POLITICIANS, THEIR AIDS AND FAMILY EXEMPT!!!!

    Left wing political think tank Politico is just gushing with praise about the ingenious political tactic of guess what?

    Implementing the plan over a strategic time-line to fool the people into not seeing the full negative effect until after Obama and congresses mid term.

    The title should be "Okay, yep, Americans you got screwed, but you're not going to know it in time to vote the Democrats out"

    Go ahead click the link read their left wing rant at how gleefully they praise Obama for ingeniously deceiving the stupid tools out there called their constituents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  16. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    You are talking straight out of your ass on that one Joe. You see the world through such twisted, gloomy lenses. FDR wanted a social net for the people but in your sick mind it's nothing more than an "accounting trick". No wait, it's a "pork project", right? So when Mr. Bigshot decides to outsource his manufacturing plant to India, leaving hundreds unemployed, what do you say to them? Tough luck? Of course, giving them unemployment insurance so they can keep spending and keep the local economy going is wrong, right? You have to be one heck of a cretin to say that social security is bad. I mean, you have said shit like "the Fresh Prince is liberal propaganda" and "FDR caused the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor". But this time you have topped yourself my friend. I'm actually speechless at your casual hatred for the poor and the unfortunate.

    That's the problem with social benefits isn't it? It requires you to contribute. All you hate is the fact that you have to chip in once in a while. You are nothing more than an egocentric, selfish, and misinformed "sheeple". I'm done debating with a moron like you buddy.
     
  17. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    595
    I don't think that the Canadian media gives two shit about Galveston. You cite one example of where people didn't like but you fail to mention the hundreds of times where it was welcomed.
     
  18. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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    You dumb ass fuckin Canook. :rolleyes:

    Know one knew they could opt out and after Galveston did Congress immediately closed the loophole.

    I thought you were studying Economy. I forgot you actually go to school to learn the merits of Socialism. Seeing how Socialism is inferior to a free market is counter intuitive to that agenda isn't it?

    Socialized Health Care: The Communist Dream and the Soviet Reality

    Equality for All

    In 1917, like everything else, medical services were nationalized by the new socialist government. Gradually, small medical practices disappeared and a network of big, factory-like hospitals and out-patient clinics were established all around the country. Everyone was registered in both out-patient clinics and hospitals according to their government-assigned residence. Patient choice was completely taken away by the Soviet State, which took full responsibility for centrally planning each individual’s medical expenses and health care.

    With the elimination of private expenditures for health services, the form and amount of medical care were now dependent upon the budgetary priorities of the State. All members of the medical industry were put on low fixed monthly salaries and were mandated to examine and treat an overwhelming daily quota of patients. Medical research became dependent upon inadequate annual budgetary allocations from the government. Doctors’ and nurses’ incomes no longer depended on their professional skills or the number of patients they treated. Total unionization of the medical profession made it practically impossible for anyone to be fired. Without markets and prices determining the value and availability of health care, the government imposed a rationing system for medical services and pharmaceutical products.

    Specialized services (mammograms, ultrasounds, and so forth) were available only in a few select hospitals where the doctors were supposed to treat patients as well as participate in research. For example, in the case of brain or cardiovascular surgery and treatment, there were only a few specialized hospitals available in the entire country. People sometimes died waiting in line to be admitted for these treatments.

    Medical care became a producer-oriented industry, instead of the consumer-oriented market that it had been in Old Russia. But even the State cannot kill the market, just as the State cannot repeal the laws of God and nature. The market was simply driven “underground,” and thus became the black market. The black-market response to State-rationing occurred immediately. Doctors’ services and pharmaceutical products (both domestic and foreign-made), as well as access to medical-testing equipment, became available for bribes. Unfortunately, only the wealthy elite could afford expensive black-market medical services, while the poor majority could no longer count upon charity.

    In the world of “free” medical care in the Soviet Union, people often had to have connections to obtain many of the medicines prescribed by physicians to save their family members and friends. Indifferent and often hostile nurses and orderlies had to be bribed to change a patient’s bedpan or to provide ordinary attention that any American would take for granted during a stay in a hospital.

    Hospital wards were crowded and far from antiseptically clean. Anesthetics and basic painkillers were frequently unavailable. The crying of patients in pain could sometimes be heard from outside a hospital by passersby.

    Some Are More Equal than Others

    Not surprisingly, those in the political elite did not want to be treated in the medical system provided for “the people.” One of the greatest myths about the Soviet Union was its supposed equality for all. No society was so divided into privileged groups and classes as was Soviet society. Where an individual stood in the political hierarchy of the Communist Party and the bureaucratic structure of the socialist economy determined his access to all the essentials as well as the luxuries of life.

    Special hospitals were created all around the Soviet Union. These were reserved for the members of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, the Council of Ministers, the local and regional Party elites, and so forth. The “servants of the people,” as a result, received a qualitatively different level of medical care than “the masses.” The privileged few had access not only to Soviet-made drugs and medications but also to Western European and American medicines and equipment, which could never be within the reach of the ordinary “proletarian” patient.

    Affirmative Action, Soviet Style

    The nature and quality of medical education were affected, as well. Bribes and connections determined both the hiring and admission processes in medical schools. Skills and professionalism mattered very little, and service to the community did not matter at all.

    This poor medical care was reinforced by the fact that entrance into higher education in the Soviet Union was dictated by a system of affirmative action that had been introduced shortly after the triumph of the Socialist Revolution in 1917. At first belonging to a social class —worker, peasant, or intellectual—determined the entry quotas into colleges, universities, and technical schools. But the Soviet affirmative action system was soon expanded to include gender and ethnic classifications as well. A young person’s professional and career opportunities were greatly influenced not by his individual merit but by whether he was, for example, a Russian, an Uzbek, a Georgian, a Lithuanian, a Jew, or somebody else. Every class, gender, and ethnic group had its own quota for admission and hiring into institutions of higher learning.

    Connections, bribes, class, gender, and ethnicity heavily determined who were admitted into and graduated from medical schools throughout the Soviet Union. Thus the supplies of hospitals, physicians, medical equipment, and pharmaceuticals all became victims of socialist central planning and political priorities just like everything else in the “workers’ paradise.” At the end of the 20th century, Russia was infamous for having one of the worst health-care systems in the world.

    In bitter situations, Russians often respond with jokes and anecdotes. In one of them, an American and a Soviet doctor are talking. The American says, “Dear colleague, our profession is imperfect. You treat the patient from one disease and he dies from another.” The Soviet doctor replies, “No, dear colleague, this is not the case with me. Mine die from whatever I treat them.”

    It is easy to say that the present system is imperfect and a radical change will make it perfect in a relatively short period of time. But there are always lessons from history from which to learn. Sometimes, your neighbor’s history warns you which path never to follow.

     
  19. Aballister

    Aballister New Member

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    Not really, it's just that contrary to what your egocentric mind can produce, my whole course doesn't revolve around some town in Texas. And I won't even bother with your last sentence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  20. Joeslogic

    Joeslogic Active Member

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