Interesting question Joe. Isn't it very odd for a culture to decompensate rather than continue their advancement? Could it be, I don't know, opium? An interesting verse from the old King James Book of Myths - 21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy *sorceries were all nations deceived. * Sorceries is the greek word Pharmakia. from which we get the English word Pharmacy. Pharmakia mean "spell inducing potient, aka "drugs". Barry
No. No, it's not. In fact, every culture, bar the one we now live in, "decompensated" (do you mean decomposed?) rather than continuing their advancement. And the jury's still out on us lot.
That's what I'm talking about. Decieved by our merchants. Sorceries is not Pharmakia. Pharmakia gives you a little glimpse at what sorceries meant, but I'm pretty sure the entire meaning has been mostly lost, and to know would give you an even more sinister look at their downfall. Look around at who our major merchants are. Not exactly the nicest bunch are they?
Well, wherever rational thought originated, it appears to have somehow failed to find its way to your mind at the moment you typed that post! How can you say that the civilisation that INVENTED the first proper writing system (as opposed to rudimentary pictograms), mathematics, the wheel, the system of time which we still use to this day, the first banking system, the first farming methods (including complex irrigation systems requiring cooperation between different areas), the first code of law as well as a host of other things was not capable of rational thought!? The Greeks got a large percentage of their knowledge from Babylon and in some cases expanded upon or refined it. There was a lot of give and take between the Greek and Arab scholars. But Mesopotamia was the primary source. For example, the theory attributed to Pythagoras was known in Babylon 1000 years before Pythagoras was even born. This topic needs a thread of its own.
I find that statement a bit odd. It's kind of like saying that the leaves and branches of a tree are more preferable/superior than the roots and trunk.
I think Pythagoras looks Irish which explains it the Babylonians moved to Ireland after deciding that they liked the idea of rain for a change. Then the lesser culture moved in and it all went to shit. I think Nurseys numbers are off a bit it was not 1000 years previous to Pythagoras that the theory was created it was 18,573 years 2 months and 38 days by a guy named Ernie Mcfry who also was the original nerd and we can thank him for that also coining the term nerd.
Hi Nursey XerxesX wrote: Its right that we owe the civilisations of Mesopotamia lots and lots. But in a way the egalitarian west is a better decendant of the original culture there. I find that statement a bit odd. It's kind of like saying that the leaves and branches of a tree are more preferable/superior than the roots and trunk. Thas because your understanding of history starts with the patrilinear citystate/army-organisations. Mine starts with the egalitarean/matrilinear cities that predates the aryan expansions. To me its more like prefering the real roots to the first branches.
Hi XarseseX! Excuse me while i pop off and do a quick diploma in order to understand what the hell you are saying exactly. Back in a few!
Muslim? Not one of them is named Mohamed. Nursey I knew when I threw out the picture of Pythagoras and questioned the ethnicity of the Babylonians. You were going to scamper off to the internet to gather (in your mind) proof that we owe Muslims a debt of gratitude for all our modern knowledge. Geniuses they are indeed!
Nursey wrote... When the fuck did I say that. All I said was that Greece was the birthplace of rational thought. When you say that the Greeks got a large percentage of there knowledge from Babylon, maybe in terms of mathematical equations, maybe some concepts, but the Greeks took it to a whole new level. Answer this, which "Babylonian" deduced that the world must be made of some underlying substance, and that trees weren't just made of tree, that the world had to be made of something that composed all of those different things. You can put up posts all you want telling me how great babylon was, I can show you sections of the book store that all stem from sophist rhetoric and the impact it had on Plato and Aristotle. And that's just a percentage of the impact Greece has had on modern thought.
I drink, yes they say I was a drunk. And when my corpse into the ground is sunk. The scent of wine escapes from the grave. And one that passes, reels from its effect. O.Khajjam. ( Gotta love that man ). Yes you are right, and here you only mention the math-guys, not the medicine-men. But: Mothercults predatet Fatherworship and the spread of gravegoods show that this was aculure were everyone was valued. It was supressed by culture that heaped most of the goods in the big chiefs grave, sacrificed a few females and slaves along the way and let the poor folk enter the land of afterlife with a scrap of bread and not much else. To much of currentday Islam is in the hand of Patriarchs. I agree that we owe a lot to patrilinear civilisation as well, and i dont agree with the feminist-view that all war is a man-thing, but i seriously like the rebirth of egalitarian, ( between sexes ) culture that has marked the west after Victoria.
wow XerxesX, that was the closest thing to a clear, concise, rational post I've ever seen you put up. Keep doing that and you might even convince me that your not in league with Smurf.
There's Joe's bigotry rearing its ugly head again. And is that a picture of Islam's most Holy Prophet you posted!? Because i have one of Jesus i can trade you it for!
You didn't. I wasn't implying you did, it was more in reference to the original post which took the thread in this direction in the first place, about screaming, backwards arabs who couldn't understand codes of conduct. Yes, and i am saying that based on available evidence you are wrong. And yes, we have loads to thank the Greeks for, but where would they have been without the Babylonians? And where would WE be without the Arab scholars who preserved so much of the Greek knowledge? The impact of the Arab Culture on European Renaissance
Hell, while we're at it why don't we give due credit to the chinese as well, since they invented gunpowder and chemical rockets. Not to mention fireworks, which is indispensible part of American heritage. Do you see the problem with that, Nursey. But the fact of the matter is that Middle Eastern culture has found a way to really fuck all of that up for itself. For a long time the middle east was a fertile breeding ground for religious thought, cultural developement, and scientific advancement. What evidence do you have that proves that this is still the case. The Arab world went from being light years ahead to being an assbackwards culture. Same thing China did. And they will come back out of it. It's merely a matter of shaking off the religious zealots that are currently running the show in the middle east.
I'm beginning to think that your argument is much more with Joe than it is with me. Could that possibly be true? Of course it could be, this is the fuglyforums.
