Enough people on the tv saying "There were no weapons&q

Thank you for documenting just how easy people can be brainwashed. Illumination and smoke screens marking an area for a bomb. Fallujah was ordered empty of all civilians by the us military. The scumbag terrorists had no morals they hid there own family in there bunkers for the purpose of capitalizing on there death in fire traps full of explosives. No there were no mk77 bombs in fallujah although it sounds nice make an accusation then when some one denies the accusation you accuse them of lying. Your reaching for straws, what is all the more disgusting is how you self righteously claim to pity the dead when it is obvious you could care less. It bothers you none that there were civilians where they should not have been.

In your sick and gullible mind how do you come to the realization that the evil genius strategy of the us troops is to go around burning local civilians. How does that win the war?

You are oh so Gullible and a tool being manipulated and used by the terrorist scumbags.

 

one mans terrorist is another frredomfighter... take that in... let it absorb then comment

 

Then sit back and 'guide me' in the 'errors of my thinking' as to what those American haters...the ~Al QueBBC~ wish to accomplish in their 'desired end', oh wise one! :lol:

No...thankyou, Joe! I think you've just done more to highlight the twisted, dishonest nature of your position than i could ever hope to for any discerning, rational thinkers that might be reading this exchange. Bravo!

Like this:
...........................

 

So when are you going to show me that the mk77s were used during the siege of Fallujah I have yet to see it?

I give you every opportunity and you cut and paste comments from various sources.

I'm, asking you to show me evidence that we used mk77's and you give me this collage of crap.

Either you are to ignorant to see that you are on one hand substantiating exactly what was said in the first place. And then getting times and dates and places mixed up mistakenly.

Or

You are purposefully trying to bring up isolated comments taken regarding a different instance then mixing them into a current argument in order to deceive the public and deceitfully win a point.

Which is it? O there we go with another question to go unanswered.

The mk77s you were referring to were from a separate incident. The white phosphorus which is not illegal to use except in the case of civilian population. The civilian population was ordered to leave. The military doesn’t go around killing civilians on purpose to what benefit would that be? But then again I asked that question already and you scampered off like a misguided Quasimodo to retrieve quotes from your American hating internet posts. That’s all you can do in this forum is avoid any question that requires a cognitive response. You need guidance from your social brainwashing propaganda machine. No answer just cut and paste.

 

My mistake...i got the the names confused, thinking that mk77 = white phosphorous, (when WP is known as M15, the MK77 being a napalm-type incendiary).

But I suppose the targeting of a residential area (where tens of thousands of civilians were known to still be present) with a substance that sticks to flesh and burns all the way through to the bone, and is very difficult to target with precision is responsible and humane?

And anyway, the pentagon originally denied it had used white phosphorous as a weapon in the assault on Fallujah, until, that is, it was forced to back peddle in light of documented evidence which was discovered. There have been unofficial reports on the use of mk77s in Fallujah, but of course, if the pentagon hasn't been put in a position where it had no option but to admit that, it can't have happened? Despite the fact that they have used it elsewhere in Iraq, and considering that the Fallujah operation was described as 'taking the gloves off' by 'Army Capt. Erik Krivda, of Gaithersburg, Md., the senior officer in charge of the 1st Infantry Division's Task Force 2-2 tactical operations command center', i think it would be imprudent to rule it out, really.

Neither. I made a simple error (see above).

It is when used as a weapon, which the pentagon has (now) admitted doing. And it was used on a city where there were thousands of civilians (who were either unable or unwilling to leave for whatever reasons) still in residence.

So what? 40 thousand remained (including women, children and those who were too ill or old to leave and those caring for them). It didn't cease to be a civilian area just because the Americans decided to rewrite the rules and behave as if it wasn't, and announce it beforehand. And all 'military age' males between the ages of 15 and 60 were prevented from leaving the city. Who needs death camps when you can just cordon off a whole city and totally obliterate it!

Well, they 'go around' obliterating a whole city, don't they? What 'benefit' would that be?
It all depends what you're trying to achieve, doesn't it? If it's total subjugation of the Iraqi people then plenty! The Iraqi people are the resistance and vice-versa. Fallujah had become symbolic of Iraqi defiance, and breaking it was a psychological blow to the whole nation.

And let's not forget the U.S targeted hospitals, ambulances and medical staff and also prevented medical staff and humanitarian supplies of food, water and medicines to enter the city. (Also in stark defiance of the Geneva convention).

But what's the point in attempting to have a rational debate with anyone so narrow they are just looking for any chance they can get to label as 'insane' anyone with a radically different viewpoint to their own?

 

Nursey cut and pasted:

Well that might have some bearing if:
1. American troops had not ruled the city to be a war zone warning any civilians in advance to leave.
2. The U.S. had indeed “targeted hospitals, ambulances and medical staff and also prevented medical staff and humanitarian supplies of food, water and medicines to enter the city"
3. Geneva Convention rules had any thing to do with fighting terrorists

Nursey cut and pasted:

I will cut and past form her cut and past the sentence she missed apparently.

So they smoked them out with WP and bombed them..... And the point is?
I'll repeat there is no Geneva rule that applies in this situation. They are not a regular uniformed fighting force. I had a punk in my unit that used to write home to his friends and family that he was involved in all sorts of missions in exotic places he was full of shit could not even participate in a forced march that the women Marines were involved in would simply get a medical chit. Any branch of the military has its loonies that talk more shit then they have any idea about, so I'm sure you will see more self important morons come out to try to get there day in the sun. We called the use of cluster bombe "shake and bake" when I was in. Like I said WP was used just like diesel was used. Simply put legally.

I would also like to hear one just one lie that that GW told the American public or any other public for that matter in order to justify going to war. That one is the real joke. There were no lies told. And you cannot show me one not even one lie to the American people leading up to the war that I guarantee.

 

You just described, verbatim, my entire political belief. Succinct and well done. We are roughly the same age, also. In your words, what do you feel will be our generations legacy, if any?

 

My generation’s legacy? Wow Samantha, there is so much I would hope my generation could accomplish to have as a legacy. At the same time I'm also so pessimistic that it will come about. The Fall of Communism (officially) was a big moment in history however the slow rise of Fabian Socialism seems to have taken its place. Let me think about that for a moment. I'll try to get back after the Holiday, unless of course I cannot stand to stay away from the computer. :wink:

 

That's rather presumptuous. And wrong. Nursey did not paste that. Unlike Joeslogic, Nursey credits all her sources and makes it quite clear which parts are pasted and which are her own.

America illegally attacked Iraq. Iraqis are fighting to defend themselves against the attack. If you are too warped/brainwashed to even accept that, i refuse to waste any more time with you.

 

nursey the man avoids every single valid point anyone makes by jumping to another topic.... or incessantly pursuing some line of thought that, even when addressed, is paraphrased and regurgitated, he keeps calling them terrorists all the while i have confronted him with evidence to the contrary- yet it seems to be arbitrarily ignored like anything else that challenges his perception of truth

 

[quote="Nursey
illegally attacked Iraq. Iraqis are fighting to defend themselves against the attack. If you are too warped/brainwashed to even accept that, i refuse to waste any more time with you.[/quote]



I wonder what the Kurds would say to what we've done to eradicate Saddams regime? No, wait: nevermind, I have a lot of refugee Kurds in my own backyard...and guess what? They're pretty down with the fact that their children and their childrens children aren't going to be ethnically-cleansed by a madman. It's not the Iraqi's we want to bring down, it's the insurgents that are still loyal to Saddam's regime.


Fucking THINK.

 

Oh, suddenly this is of great interest to you, is it? Well perhaps you should have paid more attention and read the post i did recently which dealt with this subject, you stupid cunt.

 

I assure you that the fighters in Iraq aren’t loyalists to saddams regime … what would be the point? what we’re seeing now is a power struggle between Shi’ites, Kurds, Sunnis, and Sufis….. watch how many countries iraq splits into in the next decade…

suddenly samantha you’re interested in stopping ethnic cleansing? why go to iraq where it's already been committed? why not go to the Sudan? or a variety of other third world countries where american intervention would be far more useful and save many more lives than the iraqi campaign

 

Nursey said:

Thanks Nursey! I'll look forward to that I'm sure it will be refreshing.

Well Sam looks like Nursey wants to have all the cake and eat it to. She is switching from the discussion on Fahlujah terrorist problem to the War on Iraq this seems to be the norm for her searching for some angle invalid or not to condemn the actions of the U.S.

Then Smiley accuses me of the same tactic he has been using in all his posts. He makes in irrelevant point based on either false information or information taken out of context. Then he bogs down the whole thread with ridiculous augments.

Ok Smiley I will confess that you did make a valid point regarding Sudan. That deserves a thread of its own. Why does the US or rest of the world for that matter sit back and let the atrocities occur in Sudan.

But you cannot arbitrarily dismiss Samantha's observation regarding the Kurds. You should see better than most how hard it will be to get Iraq to work together as one country. I recommend equal representation of each group with separate states that are given guidelines that must be adhered to laid out in a constitution. But at the same time given some independence to decide there own destiny. It’s a really tough bill to fill. But isn't that another discussion. Just like you accused.... never mind.

 

To bring this all back into perspective. The thread was about the socialist leaning media that has an anti-American bias as well as and more importantly the anti-American media within out own country with extreme left leaning who tries to rewrite history by repeating often enough a lie. In order to make the lie a truth.

It is my opinion that the left media would gladly sacrifice our country in order to damage an administration that it disagrees with. Truth is totally thrown out the window. Weather you are (regarding American politics) an Independent, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, fiscally liberal and socially conservative, socially liberal and fiscally conservative (we could go on with that but you should get the point) Democrat, or Republican. It all boils down to two basic Ideologies: Left being for big government keeping the people dependendent upon the government. Then there is the other side: Right which believes in separation of powers, states rights, less government intrusion.

Simply put the media sympathizes with the left and people currently in control of the left wing of politics are generally speaking persons of low moral character. The tactics that they are currently employing are underhanded and lying is there most useful tool. Not only is the left in control of the media of also government education as well as having for quite a long time now hijacked the higher learning institutions.

I have used the association before but it is so very accurate that it deserves to be looked at again. The Left controlled media and political wing is just like the mother who smothered her baby weather by accident or whatever reason ands stole the baby of another mother. Try reading the Bible 1st Kings Chapter 3 or simply go here: http://www.geinsurancesolutions.com/erccorporate/theinstitute/pc/inst_leagal_split_baby.htm

There are several instances I can show where a lie is repeated and represented as a truth in order to sway both American opinion as well as worldly opinion against our current stance on the War against terror. That basically is the point of this thread.

It is sad but o so true that Americans are shallow. This Thanksgiving they go visit there other family member being fully aware that it is not PC to discuss politics unless it is in along the line of being judgmental of American policy. And they will only have the thin surface knowledge of the issues spoon fed to them by the media. The general topic of conversation will be sports which are fine but reach ridiculous cult frenzy. This is the reason they are so easily swayed no one has the time or wants to invest the time to find out the facts.

 

only RECENTLY has there been any coverage on the Iraqi issue... why you might ask? because the administration has failed to produce any evidence regarding the reason as to WHY you SAY you went over there... the media, like any corporation, is suiting to consumer wants... only two years ago bumper stickers and flag waving, coupled with prayer sessions was the COOOLEST thing to do, now the uninformed heard is starting to feel duped and there's a backlash, what else did you expect would happen? a democratic country has just pulverized a sovereign nation and set it back at least 50 years for no reason specific to that nation.... "sorry we were wrong" just doesn't cut it on this scale

 

Not "suddenly", you blathering lithium whore...It's just that when I even attempt a coversation, I get the typical response; besides, I rarely read anything YOU'VE copied and pasted!

Happy Thanksgiving, Joe...I certainly appreciate your input. So nice to some balance in these forums.[/i]

 

Try being reasonable and polite, and you might just get the same treatment back, dick.

 

You're so balanced and unhypocritical...how very refreshing. :?

 

Right, well it looks as if you're not really wanting to have any serious discussion, your primary aim being to continue the game of one-upmanship you started months ago and which belongs anywhere but in 'cold sober'. If you are seriously wanting to debate, then cut the personal grudge crap in the serious topics. Be courteous and you'll get the same treatment back (with perhaps some 'scoffing' here and there, which is fine from both sides). But coming in all riled up and self-righteously dictating (the standard, government propaganda lines) to someone who has been earnestly investigating and writing on this subject for years and who has a personal involvement in both sides to 'Fucking THINK' is just asking for an equally disrespectful reply.
Here's a cold sober topic i started and you responded to...notice how your attitude here didn't pose any problem, and therefore didn't warrant a scathing reply.