America stands for life, liberty, and the pursuit .....

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA *GOUGES OWN EYES OUT SWALLOWS ONE INSERTS OTHER INTO RECTUM*

 

You would really love for things to be that simple, wouldn't you? For the good guys to wear white hats and the bad guys to wear black hats.

Unfortunately, this is not a western movie..closest thing that I can think it is would be a song..

"there ain't no bad guys..there ain't no good guys..there's only you and me and we just disagree."

In some cases, it is clear where the evil lies, and what the evil acts are, in other cases, one persons torturer is another persons good soldier, and one persons terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Sorry to say it, but you are in the world of shades of grey, not black and white.

 

In the "proposed scenario" there are no shades of gray. There is just good and bad.

 

real life is not a proposed scenario.

 

to some people it is

 

You're right. However, a "proposed scenario" is a proposed scenario.

 

Smiles I thought about taking this further to try to help you out with your answer but its useless and I think I've made my point with your absurd refusal to give the right answer. Anyone so shallow as to not see that point will be so shallow as to not see any other point so what’s the use. On the other hand any body who thinks deeply about my proposed question and your refusal to answer even in the context that the whole scenario was a factious scenario can then see who the real person is refusing to answer.

 

MedicVet Since you’re just getting in on this you deserve to know the nature of the question in the beginning. Basically the scenario would be if the Americans were truly the good guys with the white hats. And the Terrorists, insurgents whatever you want to call them were truly satan’s descendent then which side would you be on answer being American or the other side.

Under that scenario Smiley, and you need to understand that I asked several, several times. Would not take the American side at least not answering in that manner.

Simple question that really should have a simple answer.

Weather its true or not that the world is a bowl of cherries for us to enjoy, just the pits, or somewhere in between. That’s irrelevant to the point. Some people under ANY scenario will not take the American side. This is irrational so if your discussing the validity of any intelligence, or information anywhere on the scale between fact or fiction. An irrational person will argue the point that is anti-American. If it would make America look like shit if the sky were red and someone came out with some whacked out propaganda that yes indeed during a certain time and place. Due to the wicked heinous acts of American troops the sky turned red. Absurd or not the irrational American hater would argue that point.

But I have to admit the whole gouge’s eyes out eats one inserts other into rectum. That’s a classic. 

 

From the weekly standard

[color=yellhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/400rhqav.aspow][/color]



Finally here is a really good well laid out arguement for the use of torture.

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/400rhqav.asp

 

PLEASE don't get "Medicvet" started. She's a confirmed pathological liar.

Seriously. Ask anyone who's been around here longer than 6 months.

 

ah but joe dearest i did answer your question.... in fact i even did pick america even though i did not label it as such, but then again when you proposed the scenario neither did you so what did you expect? you portrayed a picture of black and white and because i said "white" and not America it means i'm an irrational person? i was friendly enough to play along with your silly game but there seems to be no appeasing you short of me breaking down and swearing allegiance to the flag....

as far as the article goes…. It’s based on the premise that one can identify who between the three deserves to be tortured…. Can you tell the difference between a terrorist and a terrorist with information by looking at him? How do you know if he has information? Although the article sets out fairly rational guidelines it is more the foolish to believe that any agency, which in reality answers to no one and is already using these techniques, will adhere to them…. It’s called the slippery slope, it’s the main argument against all kinds of moral issues like Organ Farming and Euthanasia ….. it’s exactly why we’re against them…. What happens if they suspect a person has information an a possible cell… and he doesn’t….. how far will they go until they realize he knows nothing? Until he’s dead? Or insane? Where do you draw the line? There will be no committee of inspectors ruling on if each case has merit on the use of torture….. those allowed to torture will be the judge, jury, and in some cases the executioner…. And to make matters worse now they’ll be doing it with the backing of their entire nation…… kind of ironic for a country that’s trying to bring democracy to the world…… democracy is comprised of ideals and ideals on morality…….. yet how can you make democracy a legitimate claim if you’re only moral when it’s convenient?

 

Democracy does not mean its your duty to bend over and take it up the ass.

Here is the article once again.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conte...ng some headway in the other direction : P

 

heh you make it sound liek America was thrust into an unfortunate situation and is making the best of it... that's simply not true, the entire thing was orchastrated by the US......... they ignored international law and attacked a sovreign land even after being told not to do so by the UN....... surely you can understand just how very very gray this makes you look.... especially after having the reason which you claimed made your attack legitimate has been found to be... a mistake

 

Smiley wrote:

Is that true Smiley? America did not get a vote that required full compliance and cooperation from Iraq with the international inspections or risk being forced to dismantle the WMD programs by means to include the use of force?

And while we are discussing grey area is it not interesting to note that the oil for food program money was not being used to buy for to the people of Iraq but instead millions were used to buy out the specific people on the U.N. who were against the U.S. invasion? Now that seems to me to be putting the U.N. hold outs squarely in the "Grey area" category.

And I would like an answer to that question I asked after the quote please.

 

As to shades of grey! The sublimation of violence is the art that might bring us forward.This is were capitalism excels. Takeovers are better than crude wars.
The equation is this: Size of population timed with production, minus violence timed oposition. The lowest score gets the Karma. The highest looses its rights for next generation emporium through silly clouded rethorics by its ( by then ) corrupted leaders.

 

Messed up the highs and low on that one, me thinks :wink:

 

regardless of what threat they made when it came to the international community to come to a consensus on what to do about the problem the US fully ignored the recommendation of the UN thus discrediting the entire organization.... you can only push buttons for so long.... you may be the strongest nation in the world but you are by no means stronger than the world

 

Smiley
The US was already given overwhelming support by the UN to take necessary measures to ensure that Saddam Hussein's weapons programs be totally dismantled 12 months before the war. The US then gave them those 12 months to comply compliance was flatly refused meanwhile for 12 months Koffie Annon and his goons took untold millions of oil for food money. The whole thing was extortion basically. Yes the US was forced to play its hand in an unfortunate position it was trusted into. If it seems that way to you then that’s because that is the way it was.

XerxesX
You crack me up man. You’re alright in my book but I must say capitalism is not all that bad while it can be just as evil as socialism we are far from the point where we need to worry. :wink:

As far as I’m concerned we will all be so much better if the people are better informed. As bad as the news is here. I can only imagine how crazy and biased the media is where the only supplier is information is the likes of Al Jazerra. I think we should find a way to circumvent some of the propaganda over in the middle east and force a little truth into the situation. Even though the fact is the reports I get from troops located over seas is that they are generally treated very well with open arms from a people that are grateful we are there. That’s the feedback they give me. I could only imagine how things could turn around even more with the injection of a little bit of truth into the media. It’s got to be tuff though for a foreign media correspondent that knows his or her life as well as there family’s life is in grave danger if they publish any story that is positive towards the Americans.

 

There are many good things about capitalism. Its inovative and supplies where there is payment.

To me socialism was allways dental and medical care. The right to a pension and a decent retirement. Schools for the kids. Laws about workinghours and minimum wages etc. Simply put! The rights that the working class got through strikes and negotiations with the capitalists.
Those that provided these rights for the generations to come called themselves socialists.

But you would probably call it "the american way".
A term used by americans to describe all things good.