America stands for life, liberty, and the pursuit .....

Ok then I'll defer to Pimps previous knowledge I do not go to this post often enough to know. Besides you Serbs are a mysterious bunch and I don't want you to somehow pull some voodoo type stunt and make me look like her ...er whatever. :shock: I'd never get a date.

 

But something catches me as not right I'll figure it out and ask you about it. To busy trying to figure out this @#$%$ pool pump in my backyard right now.

 

BBC: US accused of more abuse in Iraq

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Human Rights Watch has published a report giving fresh details of alleged torture and abuse of detainees by US forces in Iraq.

The report quotes three US soldiers who described routine, severe beatings of prisoners, including a detainee's leg being broken with a baseball bat.

Other allegations included applying burning chemicals to detainees' eyes and skin, making them glow in the dark.

A US defence spokesman said the report contained errors and distortions.

The Human Rights Watch (HRW) report is based on interviews with a captain and two sergeants who served in a battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division.

They said abuse, at a military base called Mercury near Falluja, was not only overlooked, but was sometimes ordered.

The punishments handed out included sleep deprivation, withholding food and water, "human pyramids" like those seen in photos from Abu Ghraib prison, and blows to the face, the report claimed.

'Agenda'

One of the soldiers told HRW the abuse was ordered by intelligence officers in an attempt to gain information.

Another said it was seen as "sport".

"Everyone in camp knew if you wanted to work out your frustration you show up at the [interrogation] tent," he reportedly said.

"As long as no PUCs [prisoners under control] came up dead, it happened," he said.

"We kept it to broken arms and legs."

HRW said the reports "suggest that the mistreatment of prisoners by the US military is even more widespread than has been acknowledged to date".

Lt Col Skinner of the US Department of Defense said the dossier was trying to "advance an agenda through the use of distortions and errors in fact".

He said 400 investigations had been launched into prisoner abuse allegations and "looked at all aspects of detention operations under a microscope".


dude i can;t believe the Iraqis didn't ask the US to come oust Saddam earlyer.... things are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better now

 

Ok I read the whole post and I am starting to figure it out, first of all its almost unbelievable I actually relate to most all of what Nursey had to say this was not the case in the past “Jews gone wild”. Xersesx had it 66 percent right speaking from experience I was a “soldier” soldiers police there own and would not let the others get out of hand nearly as easy as general public and are fierce independent thinkers in my experience. Lotabutt … he fits into that category of people called democrat you know the type feel guilty cause there American hate the country they live in and would gladly sacrifice the whole package for victory at the ballot box. The very predictable type. But its it you Smiley that seems to be contradicting yourself. Maybe you just like to talk and put your finger in the air and spout off what ever you think popular opinion would have you say.
No way you could be a displaced Serb of Albanian descent or other muslim faction after the all U.S. helped them out and you despise our country which explains why you would choose not to live here. (or do you?) I painstakingly read a book called Balkan Babel I believe quite a few years ago trying to gain a perspective of the people of Serbia and as I remember there are several nationalities I may stand corrected but I believe it was seven. Excuse my spelling or slang but there were Croats, Slavs, Turks … help me out various sects both by race, political affiliation and religion. So lay it on the line Smiley what about you? For the purpose of understanding cause that is what I want to do is understand your perspective.

 

The grand conspiracy theory about prisons is an interesting one. I think it was placed out there for the gullible anti American to devour as a tool. Obviously our side is able to glean intel accurate good intel and it is surprising the insurgents how effective out intelligence agencies are working. They suspect that the bulk of intel we are getting is not from the general populace but from prisoner insurgents. A good way to curtail this suspicion that we were using more advanced torture techniques that would need to be done on a top secret fashion lest we loose the respect of our own populace would be to start this rumor. But it is a little on the ridiculous side, o’yeah I’m sure there will be more AbuGarib type stories floating around, but that will prove nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is like the asinine idea that O.J. Simpson was an innocent victim of a grand conspiracy of around the order of 30 or so lapd officers and detectives. It simply does not happen that way sooner or later there is a “legitimate” whistle blower in the crowd of persons who would be personally knowledgeable of what happened. As far as weather or not Iraq had or was pursuing weapons of mass destruction…1. he used them a few times in the form of chemical weapons against both the Iranians as well as the Kurds. 2. The inspectors found tons of the stuff before they were expelled despite overwhelming odds that they would with the French Germans and Russians whispering in Saddam’s ear. This was before they were expelled without the chemicals being destroyed. 3. Saddam had (off the top of my head) somewhere around I believe 500 Tons of yellow cake uranium most of it unusable true but of that 1.8 tons stored at no other than his nuclear weapons development plant of which were enriched enough to be used in a nuclear weapon. And then there was the whole Joe Wilson deal that virtually proved Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake from Niger. How much proof would you like Smiley?

 

WMD FOUND IN IRAQ

The media is fond of reminding us that no Weapons of Mass Destruction were ever found in Iraq. This has been the clarion call of the Democrats for a couple of years now. However, did you know that WMD were found in Iraq? Not just a couple...but lots of them. A mother who lost her son in Iraq was interviewed on Fox News had this to say: "I have seen photos of entire fighter jets buried in the sand. I have seen pictures of entire caches of weapons that just my son's unit would uncover." I wonder why we never hear much about that one? Here's also a nice little list of what was found:

-500 tons...that's right...TONS...make that 1million pounds of yellow cake uranium. It was found at Saddam's nuclear weapons facility (yup...he had one of those too.)

-1.8 tons of partially enriched uranium found at the same place. You know, the stuff you need to make nukes.

-Hidden centrifuge parts and blueprints.

-Two dozen artillery shells loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

Sounds like WMD to me! You may want to print this off and impress your friends with your knowledge.

copied that from boortz.com I wish I had time to listen to his radio station these days I'm sure he is in the Dallas area I just moved here.

 

"the world can probably take 50 to 100 more years of this abuse and by then we are dead anyway. Right ?"

^I think that might be the governments biggest problem right now. Bush is such a fuckin idiot. He' in capable of thinking and makes us look stupid. Maybe you think this sounds uneducated but people did't hate us with big Billy C. This president just ran right in there like a fuckin beserk dildo. Just made lots of comotion but didnt do what he was supossed to. I don't know how we put this guy in office.

 

Terrorists and countries are very separate entities. We should not have claimed war with their country. It's is very bad publicly, it is what we have CIA and special operations for. But what the hell do any of us really know about exactly everything anyway. Any way what about that whole north korea thing? I think that would worry me.....besides all that other shit thats going to kill us.....

 

ooooo look i spelled anyway different

 

I knew my communicatory skills weren't up to par that day, but that's much worse than i suspected! Don't worry, Joe. I'm sure you've just misinterpreted.

 

No Nursey you pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Dictatorships, Fundamentalist societies are a source of evil and one of the main reasons is simply the removal of freedom within the society. You can create a rule and repercussions to prevent a person from committing a crime but you will never change the intent of the heart. The ability to do the right and moral thing and make ones own judgment as to what the definition of moral and right is on ones own recognizance that’s freedom. As far as these statistics …Fidel Castro will be quick to say that his statistics show that Cuba is a place of love, peace, and harmony. But it seems like people are dying to get out of there and into America. O and Smiles is still dodging my question did you notice that?

 

o wow... where to start... i'll work backwards and save best for last....

"I have seen photos of entire fighter jets buried in the sand. I have seen pictures of entire caches of weapons that just my son's unit would uncover." I wonder why we never hear much about that one? Here's also a nice little list of what was found:

we never heard about this? really? the first 6 months there were hourly reports on what was found and what COULD have been used for what

-500 tons...that's right...TONS...make that 1million pounds of yellow cake uranium. It was found at Saddam's nuclear weapons facility (yup...he had one of those too.)

-1.8 tons of partially enriched uranium found at the same place. You know, the stuff you need to make nukes.

-Hidden centrifuge parts and blueprints.

-Two dozen artillery shells loaded with Sarin and mustard gas.

Sounds like WMD to me! You may want to print this off and impress your friends with your knowledge.

hmmm.... ICBM's listed anywhere there?.... any ties to terrorist organisations? so how was the US threatened? the man could have had nukes coming out of his asshole if he had no way to deliver them to the US then why be scared? dozens of countries have larger and more meanicing caches of "WMD" yet they still remain sovreign states

They suspect that the bulk of intel we are getting is not from the general populace but from prisoner insurgents. A good way to curtail this suspicion that we were using more advanced torture techniques that would need to be done on a top secret fashion lest we loose the respect of our own populace would be to start this rumor.

so the stories are made up propoganda? how can you say that when the governments trying to LEGALIZE this behaaviour?

now ot my favourite part.... you were a soldier? where? for how long? see any action? i can't explain to you the mindstate because i simply wasnt put in the situation where i had to kill someone for whatever reason... but i've spoken to many people that have.... people that have done worse than just kill but oyu couldn't pick them out of a crowd socer dads

Maybe you just like to talk and put your finger in the air and spout off what ever you think popular opinion would have you say.

popular opinion? i don't care weather it's popular or not .... what i believe is true is what i fight for ... change my mind and i'll fight for you


No way you could be a displaced Serb of Albanian descent or other muslim faction after the all U.S. helped them out and you despise our country which explains why you would choose not to live here.

i'm not albanian i'm serbian like i told you.... i've lived in Canada for 10 years and i'm a student at U of T... the former republic of yugoslavia consisted of Slovenians, Serbs, Croats, Bosnian Muslims, and albanians. Slovenia seperated first then croatia and bosnia .... now kosovar albanians now want to seperate.... but if you're interested the history... in my opinion... is fascinating, the entire region was ruled by the ottoman empire, thats how bosnian muslims came to be, serbs who were either forced or chose to convert to islam... as for albanians well thats not a topic worth discussing at this time...

you could never understand my perspective because i cant convey to you how i feel about the american regime... too many instances... too much meddling... from importing drugs to creating enormous millitary complexes... from playing both sides against the middle to soldier rape cover ups... frankly i dont give a shit... i believe that in the end everyone gets what they deserve... and if that's even half true then it'll be worse than anything smurfslappa can concieve

 

heh... nice try

 

Senator John McCain proposed passing legislation that quite frankly I agree with at face value I believe that Geneva Convention rules do not apply in the case of an insurgency or non uniformed terrorists. I do not believe we should allow them that advantage if we can defend our country and get more information from them by putting panties on a guys head and humiliating him then great. The left (and this includes 85% of the media) are going to try to undermine our efforts and misrepresent the facts then we need a law passed to legalize torture in certain instances. Look dude take the chip off of your shoulder for a sec and think of what I’m saying. The military is full of guys like that medvet guy that posts here all the time if they were legitimately torturing insurgents would he not be taking copious notes? Sure he would and there is at least 10 to 15 like him in every unit. Also we want and need good intelligence and we do not get that with bone breaking and the like. With over 400 freaking investigations of reports of abuse. There is an old saying “a blind hog will find an acorn in a forest sooner or later” same mentality applies. Just look at the sheer numbers. Saddam Hussein is the only dictator that has made promises that he would strike our country. Since Bill Clinton gave China our ICBM technology and Saddam was buying missile technology from China it is feasible to believe that he could come up with something hell he was trying to purchase more yellow cake uranium from Niger if not for the purpose of nuclear weapons then tell me what for. North Korea..I have to agree with you there they are a threat but China is a bigger one in my book. Not to mention what the hell is going on in Iran. O and lets not forget our own back yard with that nutcase dictator in Argentina Chavez. But we had no choice but to address the most prominent threat which is terrorism and Iraq held the key to solving a lot of our problems. We are dependent on oil and need Iraqi oil. His people are starving while we try to feed them he is taking his oil money and further destabilizing the Arab region heck I would have done the same.

On the other hand to talk about a Vietnam style war that we should have never been involved in like I keep hearing in the media look at the Balkans now there is a whole different thread that needs to be started I think.

 

Amesty International: Children among those held in Guantánamo Bay


"DANGEROUS, NON-UNIFORMED IRAQI TERRORIST"

And i've just woken up, so that's all i can be bothered responding to for now.

 

Where u from smiles? I know quite a few people from over there.

 

Its also funny how some people are considered war criminals, except they are war criminals for the directions they followed from the US.

 

i was born in mostar but never lived there.... lived in sarajevo until the war started.... moved to novi sad, lived there until we came to canada, my parents are both from nevesinje..... ye bosnia's looking at everyone as a war criminal .... i met a few people wanted by them as well as a couple of members of Arkans Tigers- insane guys,


non uniformed terrorists? ok so lets take that principle and apply it outside the American microcosm..... why are Chechnyans still not referred to as terrorists? when they killed.... god i forget how many people on that theatre, and grade school attack.... why did all the newspapers (at least in Canada) not refer to them as terrorists, they were "hostage takers"....... hmmmm hypocrisy? political agenda? .... don't try to tell me that we're all playing by the same rules, seems to me America makes them up as they go along. Also why was Serbia bombed? they were just fighting "dangerous, non-uniformed terrorists" ... why not invade in the Sudan? There are at least a half dozen crisis worldwide where civilians are caught in the middle that America can go rescue? why Yugoslavia? you ever look at the geology of Kosovo, mineral deposits? ever look into what americas constructing over there in terms of military compounds? ever read what you made us sign? – you’d understand a lot more if you knew a lot more

 

"DANGEROUS NON-UNIFORMED SERB TERRORIST"

 

anyway u can photoshop some buck teeth and a marlboro in there?