Were the Levees Intentionally Blown?

Discussion in 'More Serious Topics' started by Nursey, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    Visit the next link and read the full article. Here are some excerpts...
    ABC news video

     
  2. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

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    If the levees failed because of an explosion, (which I doubt seriously), why would it have to be the federal government that did it?

    Wouldn't blowing a levee be a great terrorist act? If the government did blow the walls, wouldn't they have blamed it on the Muslims by now?

    Barry
     
  3. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    That would be surplus to requirement, as they already have that base covered and are milking it for all it's worth. What purpose would it serve? They aren't going to want to make things any more complicated for themselves than necessary, and to claim that a muslim terrorist cell had predicted the movements of the hurricane better than they had in order to maximise the damage would be pushing it a little, don't you think? They would have to have their false flag 'intelligence' prepared such as how they knew it was terrorists etc. Why bother when the perfect cover already exists?
     
  4. MEDICVET

    MEDICVET New Member

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    nursey, I have been volunteering at gruber. I know that rumors can spread in much the same fashion as the childhood game of telephone, and become just as easily distorted. Nonetheless, in this case..listening to firsthand accounts from people traumatized but not overly hysterical..

    I think they were blown.

    fucking sad...and leads me to quite a few questions that I don't have answers for yet..maybe I never will.. I don't know.
     
  5. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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  6. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    Don't you think if they blew the levees intentionally they would've had a better response than they did. It's hard to justify militarily taking over a city if the first thing you do when you get the opportunity is show that you were completely unprepared for the event you deliberately caused. If they blew the levees don't you think they would have planned better.
     
  7. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    Kind of like their *good planning* in Iraq? (Which still does not have electricity fully restored two and a half years and billions of pounds in 'reconstruction ' grants down the line). What makes you think that all out chaos doesn't have a purpose in itself when trying to achieve certain aims?
     
  8. smurfslappa

    smurfslappa New Member

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    Yeah. They got all their shit planned up. They won't go crazy, like all the rest of us when shit hits the fan and we implode on our greed. Who's watching The Man when you're too busy fighting for survival? We're the enemy dudes.
     
  9. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    Their "good" planning, as you put it, is what got us into the mess in Iraq, as well as the mess in New Orleans, along with soaring gasoline prices, is what has this administrations approval ratings dropping like a rock. As of September 10 Bush's approval rating stands at 39%, and 66% of the populace thinks the country is headed in the wrong direction. That's not exactly conductive to taking over a country militarily. If anything this disaster has hurt their position. This disaster is putting all eyes on the man, and the more people look the more naked the emperor seems.
     
  10. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    Exactly...and yet we know for sure that they did plan it.

    Nothing another false flag operation can't remedy.
     
  11. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    doubt that the administration will recover from this. The current situation on the ground in Iraq shows the lack of planning, not the presence of it. Sure, they "planned" the operation in Iraq, they just did no planning whatsoever for the situation after the invasion. At best you could point to that as an example of why this current administration is incapable of planning to intentionally blow the levees. They can't see far enough into the future to be able to use such an event to their advantage. So far your claims don't really hold water. Opperation false flag couldn't save them, the public is too wary of this current administration. If that sort of thing worked then certainly Nixon would have been of the sort to try it. If they were as smart as your assuming they are they would go about making the situation better, not worse. They're not in any position to circumvent the constitution. Military morale is extremely low right now. Based on that do you think you could really get the guys on the ground to start firing on civilians, especially un-armed civilians. There's quite a bit that's not being factored in here. The administration, if they had plans of the sort you're implying, has shot themselves in the foot with the very tools your're claiming they're using. The story doesn't add up.
     
  12. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    "I doubt that the administration will recover from this."

    What will that matter if they are replaced by a militarised, non-partisan dictatorship? Because that's what will happen in the event of another major 'terrorist attack' on the U.S.

    As whatreallyhappened.com puts it:

    End of the Bush Era
    Recent months, and especially the past two weeks, have brought home to a steadily growing majority of Americans the truth that President Bush's government doesn't work. His policies are failing, his approach to leadership is detached and self-indulgent, his way of politics has OHMYGAWDLOOKATTHETERRORISTBOMB!

    "The current situation on the ground in Iraq shows the lack of planning, not the presence of it.
    Sure, they "planned" the operation in Iraq, they just did no planning whatsoever for the situation after the invasion."


    Unless that is, the chaos and descent into civil war that we are currently witnessing was the intention, and i believe that's likely. For one, Israel doesn't want a strong, independant Iraq on its doorstep!
    And as i'm sure you are aware, the U.S. army grunts on the ground are perfectly expendable to those raking in billions.
    .
    "At best you could point to that as an example of why this current administration is incapable of planning to intentionally blow the levees."

    I disagree. And again, what makes you so sure that chaos doesn't serve a purpose in itself?

    "They can't see far enough into the future to be able to use such an event to their advantage."

    You underestimate how much intelligence they have at their fingertips. An article from 2001:

    As far as 'predicting' future events and using them to their advantage...
    "Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favour of a military form of government."
    "So far your claims don't really hold water."

    Just like those concrete levees?

    "Operation false flag couldn't save them, the public is too wary of this current administration."

    I think that in most cases, wariness of the administration will quickly give way to fear for ones life in the event of a major 'terrorist attack' in the U.S.

    "If that sort of thing worked then certainly Nixon would have been of the sort to try it."

    Also see: Operation Northwoods, Israeli use of 'false flags'

    "If they were as smart as your assuming they are they would go about making the situation better, not worse."

    Well from what we *are* able to ascertain, they seem to have gone out of their way to make things worse...and i don't think that's down to stupidity...

    The "Black Curtain" around FEMA's Operations

    "They're not in any position to circumvent the constitution."

    They seem to be do a pretty good job at circumventing it from what i've seen. What about the Patriot Act? And anyway, since when do perpetrators of illegal, treasonous operations pay attention to the laws of the land?

    "Military morale is extremely low right now. Based on that do you think you could really get the guys on the ground to start firing on civilians, especially un-armed civilians."

    Well, do you hear of any dissent amongst the ranks from soldiers sent in to enforce a shoot-to-kill policy in New Orleans? Besides, it won't be long before we start to see the advent of 'non-lethal' pain weapons on the streets. They've already been used in their 'testing ground'... Microwave gun to be used by US troops on Iraq rioters, New Weapon to Be Used in Iraq, Electromagnetic weapons.

    And of course, foreign mercenaries can be hired to do the jobs which American soldiers find too disagreeable, if need be.

    "The administration, if they had plans of the sort you're implying, has shot themselves in the foot with the very tools your're claiming they're using."

    How? The rich are going to get richer at the expense of the poor and the middle classes. What are you lot going to do about it? Vote them out of power?
     
  13. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    ..........................................

     
  14. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

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  15. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    'Bullshit'. Is that all you have to say about it? Must be a pretty convincing case...
     
  16. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

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    Nursey, I LIVE HERE. New Orleans is right next door. I talk to displaced people everyday. 99% of the people I talk to are in the process of getting back on their feet. They are grateful for the help from both the government and the private sector, and they are not blaming anything but a huge hurricane for their misfortune. Another 1% are walking around making crazy ass claims such as " the levees were blown on purpose."


    What about the people who say they SAW the levee break, and it was simply hit by a runaway barge? Are they crazy?

    Here - Rense.com is a trusted source for you, right?
    http://www.rense.com/general67/loose.htm

    Barry
     
  17. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    So, let's just say we somehow ascertained for definite that the levees were blown up. How would the situation you see around you differ from the way it is now? Do you think everyone you encounter would know all about it? Or would the majority of them be oblivious to the covert operation?
    And if those in the minority who had access / exposure to alternative sources of information about the incident discounted any pertinent details simply on the basis that (apart from reluctance to challenge their comfortable, deep-seated beliefs about those in power) 'if it were true, lots of people they meet would know about it', how do you think anyone would ever find out the truth?

    And i wouldn't go as far as to say Rense was a 'trusted source' for me. More a useful site rounding up stories from both mainstream and alternative sources. And if you look at the source of the story you linked, it's from wayne madson...the same site that also reports:

    Dallas Meeting Plans N.O. Rebuilding - Without Poor Blacks
    Government Jamming N.O. Communications Links
    I believe it is possible that the barge struck a levee, but that's another theory which, if true, raises questions in itself...

    ...in fact, how do you know that that wasn't an act of sabotage? Or a subterfuge?

    So, to conclude...as well as using the 'people that live here would know if it was true' 'arguement', you're resorting to using a lesser conspiracy to 'disprove' a grander conspiracy theory, now?
     
  18. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    Blackwater Mercenaries: Coming Soon to Your Town

     
  19. Nursey

    Nursey Active Member

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    Louis Farrakhan: Levees Were 'Blown Up'

     
  20. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    Spinning out an entire scenario of the possible is not spinning out a scenario of the probable. Sure it's possible that the government is part of an international cabal that seeks one world government. Remember Nursey, I am familiar with the PNAC and what they believe to be best for the world. I don't doubt that these guys seek to dominate the world. The fact remains that the government has checks and balances, and the movement to a military style of government would be difficult to pass off. Not impossible, granted, and I don't put it beyond this group to do something like that. The statement "winning isn't everything it's the only thing," definitely applies to this particular group." Hell, the U.S. government is employing 20,000 mercenaries, at the last time I checked, just in IRAQ. That doesn't bode well for the this administrations moral character, because they're using the mercenaries for jobs they can't do with standard military.

    On the other hand, sections of the Patriot Act are being challenged in court, and overturned, by the same government that implemented the Patriot Act. So there is no need to abandon all hope. As far as the "New Orleans Land Grab," city and state governments don't need to blow levees to grab land, they just call it "Urban Renewal." Why would the government take such drastic measures to develope land for private use if they already have a legitimate way of doing it? I don't trust the government, I never have and will continue not to trust them. The fact of the matter remains that the American populace is so diverse and so far flung it would be very difficult even for our own nation to occupy all territory. Iraq has a population of 30 million, correct me if I'm wrong, with a force of 20,000 or so "insurgents," and the military is having a hard time securing any kind of functional control there. Transfer that to the United States, a nation of some 300 million people, and you can inductively reason that the government would have an extremely hard time maintaining control. Doesn't mean they wouldn't try, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union hoping to occupy it after all, but it would be extremely difficult. The government is having a hard enough time dealing with the Meth-amphetamine epidemic, which is a domestically manufactured and distributed drug. There are many groups that would fight such an effort, and that's just the existing groups. 2 million NRA members, Hell's Angels, Los Angeles street gangs, survivalist groups. The government outnumbered the branch dividian group led by David Koresh by quite a bit, and still couldn't quell that situation without coming out with egg on their face. I think that you are drastically over-estimating the intelligence of this group, and drastically under-estimating their faith in the Reagan doctrine. The PNAC is nothing more than the embodiment of the national zeitgeist that was born in the fifties and has reached, and passed, its zenith with Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2.

    The Neo-cons are on their way down, not up. I don't doubt your claim that the neo-cons at the top of the American political machine don't care about the average Joe, but nuking an American city is a bit far flung even for these ass-holes. Bush 2 is the death rattle of the American conservative movement. Great Britain had there conservative movement that was put to rest by great minds like John Stewart Mill and Jeremy Bentham. The U.S. will come out of its own conservative movement. All nations do. I seriously doubt that the PNAC would be willing to take the sorts of measures that you have described, but it's not impossible. Again, an argument stating the possible is not any indication of the probable.
     

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