Good Fire Hit Him

Starts off sounding quite reasonable...

"First, I think that you are a good guy. I am not trying to be critical. "

...but then descends into the sort of rabid, cliched typecasting which comes out the mouth of every brainwashed, moronic zealot of the U.S. variety that i come across all over the net.

"The video in question has been the center of a huge controversy, and is used by anti-American (aka French Bastards)to "prove" that Americans committed major atrocities in Iraq and to justify their yellow bellowed refusal to do their part.

As soon as anyone resorts to that bullshit you know they're not thinking for themselves.
Notice also,i don't resort to calling him a piece of Yankee shit eating scum to make my point. I don't need to, i have truth on my side.

I'm too tired to comment much on the details of the footage itself, though as i recall, the U.S. soldiers turned an already fallen and injured human (who, along with the others killed wore a long arab style tunic...not the typical garb of fighters, which also suggests that they were, in fact farmers as has been widely claimed) into a large, exploded splat of white as it appeared in the thermal imaging footage.

 

But if he had predicted the end of civilisation, would you have thought he was an open-minded enlightened individual?

Yeah, but you did descend into a "sort of rabid, cliched typecasting" when you called him a "brainwashed, moronic zealot of the U.S."

So is the popup version propaganda? Of course it is, but that doesn't mean it's not true. Basically, even if that cylinder is a weapon, no one was holding it when they opened fire. So the men were unarmed at the time. International Law requires that enemy combatants are given the oportunity to surrender, so firing at someone who is waving a rag is a war crime, so is firing on someone who to the best of your knowledge is unarmed and hiding under a truck.

 

so you would say that anyone who accuses a critic of the actions of the US in the 'war on terror' of being anti-american is open minded and enlightened?...

 

This is the first time i have seen either of these clips.When i saw the first "propaganda" clip i was in no doubt in what i saw or thought.It was clear these guys had been fired on without any reason.
Then i watched the second clip with tells a different story, i still don't believe there was good enough reason to open fire and kill them.They must have been able to fire a few warning shots to get them to surrender.I can understand that solders in Irag are under a huge strain and are constantly in fear for their lives so being a bit trigger happy is maybe understandable, but this was as Canine said against International Law.
I don't think the man "waving the cloth" was actually waving a cloth, it looked like he was unwrapping whatever he had in the cloth as fast as he could to retaliate and prevent his butt being shot to pieces like the other guy.
I've never agreed with the war and the reasons behind us invading the country as far as i can see are a load of old bollox.People are dieing for oil which to me is unforgivable.ANd before someone jumps down my throat and screams Saddam Hussein tortured and murdered many of his people and he had WoMD.Yes i agree he was a nasty bastard but so are many leaders in this world at the moment who are doing 100x more barbaric things to their people, why are we not invading them?There are also other countries who are a threat and who we know for a fact have WoMD why have we not invaded them?
I don't believe anything i read anymore in papers or on the internet i have to go with what i feel.Both sides are a bad as each other for making propaganda, but we've made a rod for our own back with this war,it seems very much like Northen Irland ( as in the way the people in the country feel) and look how long that has been going on for.The people of Irag who believe the war was wrong and don't want us in there will not just give up , they won't just all be killed there's too many, look how little Northen Irland is compared with Iraq and look how much trouble we in the UK have had and it is still going on today.

 

Dang Mr Nursey, If you can't attack the point, attack the person.

Whether I am unenlightened, stupid, and stereotypical is not the point. The point is that this video is edited - important facts eliminated - and presented to the world with the express purpose of undermining the efforts of the United States. Editing of this type is base dishonesty.

It angers me when people attempt to deceive me, and it angers me when my intelligence is insulted. This edited clip does both.

I would never hide from the truth. The truth is the Apache crew in this video "finished off" a wounded human. Any action such as that goes against the grain of common decency at best, and is a war crime at worst.

I would never say that the US is perfect in what it does. I know that atrocities occur in war, and that innocent people die because of decisions made by the leaders of this country.

The point is this - What actually occurred in this video may or may not be a war crime. What is important to remember is that this country considers certain actions on the battlefield to be CRIMES. It is not the policy of this country to kill helpless, defenseless people, despite the best efforts of the editors to make you think otherwise.

Manipulating, editing, misquoting, partial answers, cropped pictures, and one sided testimonies are not the full story. Be angry when someone tries to change the way you believe by deception.

Barry

 

Damn you just named everyone of Micheal Moores techniques. I hate when I get presented with purley and obviously biased information. Someone is lying all the time, who it is at the given moment is something I haven't the energy to find out. The truth is out there, but it depends on who you believe. She can't persuaded me to believe I live in a horrendous country ran by War criminals, whereas I can't and won't try to persuaded her that Bush is a good guy.

 

barry as enlightened as you may try to be you have to understand the task you are undertaking when you try to dismiss war crimes... especially by the perpetrators and aggressors of a war... as nothing but common factuality’s of conflict, i am assuming you’ve never been in a war, i have, I’m assuming you've never been shot at, i have, i am assuming you've never had to flee your home and two weeks later every member of your ethnicity was wiped out in that region, never have you lost a family member because of western favoritism in internal national matters, you've never had cluster bombs dropped on your neighborhood nor have you had your people passed off ass sadists and rapists so please don't teach curriculum you're unfamiliar with, as much as all americans claim to understand the pain of war they couldn't grasp an inkling of what war is so please stick to talking about sports and pussy because you're a little out of your league here

"Manipulating, editing, misquoting, partial answers, cropped pictures, and one sided testimonies are not the full story. Be angry when someone tries to change the way you believe by deception."

ever watch CNN? yes? why haven't u shot up a city block then?

 

Help me smiles - when did I ever try to "dismiss" war crimes?

Once again for the record - I believe war crimes should be prosecuted, not dismissed.

My original concern had to do with giving bandwidth to an edited lie of a videoclip. Can't we agree that it is wrong to present half truths as fact?

Can you give an opinion on the topic and not simply attack me?

Peace already!

Barry

 

"I know that atrocities occur in war, and that innocent people die because of decisions made by the leaders of this country. "

by accepting the slaughter of non-combatants as mere collateral damage caused by a highly stressful environment and write it off as unavoidable to me is a dismissal of such occurrences as unfortunate statistics, yet that would only be a semi-valid argument if the conflict in question were itself virtually unavoidable, but to pick a different sovereign nation to bomb every fucking presidential term should make the world and you wonder..... i don't have the energy to provide for you countless data collected by independent european agencies on the US and it's global indiscretions but suffice it to say i despise the purposeful altering of evidence (a clear example of which was provided above) but what you must admit to is the wealth of fraudulent data distributed by the US on a virtually daily bases to the american populace simply to appease their fanatical nationalism and dull their natural born wit

 

Smiles - you ramble like a madman. Go back and s-l-o-w-l-y read what the REAL issue is. You miss the point.

America might really be Satan. I've never met him in person, so I can't say for sure. (I almost married his sister though :twisted: ) What I can say for sure is that I am trying to talk about a whacked up video, not about whether what was done was right or wrong.

Maybe your glasses needs to be wiped a little. They appear to be covered with the blood of your people, through which you can't see anything but a corrupt America.

What about the editing of the VIDEO, Smiles? Is biased editing justified in your mind?


Barry

 

maybe if you pass me YOUR glasses...

 

point is every part of the media is biased in some sense. newspaper, tv, internet, magazines ect. not much has changed in the past 50 years on how the government treats the way it presents its information. one of the only things that has changed is how information is passed upon the people. the 40s had letters, daily new papers, radio broadcasts, and propaganda movies and word of mouth. in the 70s the new advances in technology alowed video recordings to be broadcasted into millions of homes with cheaper affordable television sets. images of war and death glowing in the eyes of television viewers. if you wernt with the US you were communist or faciast , a hippi. now if you doubt the government your unpatriotic. what could be more patriotic than expressing your feelings using the right given too you. but even those have been limited buy quickly enacted bills and laws. parinoia sweeps the nation with every one buying guns and gas maskes, bullets and ration. racism blankets the country. the evil muslims cause this and that, fuckin rag heads go back, damn spics taking the jobs, lazy ass niggers taking the welfare, fuckin chinks cant drive. last time i checked this country was a land of immagrents, the melting pot of the world, where you went to make something of your self, where it didnt matter what class you came from weather you were female or male. so what happen to this land of tolerance? or is it a utopia? the world has become a materialist country where people worry what movie they will see, where kids call a school with new top of the line computers and $100 graphing calculators ghetto . where they bitch about having to go to school and use those 3ghz computers with LCD screens and use those brand new text books that they dont even need cause they have the ability to access them online on a database that the school mantians on its own server. but yet we still complain. it baffles the mind on what. we have the highest standard of living but pay outrageous sums of money for medication and treatment, even with insurance. where police have the ability to arrest you for being a smartass. where US companie work against US citizens so that companines like walmart can save a buck. walmart actualy demands a price for what they sell and if you dont give it to them the will look some where else overseas. when a picture tube producer for RCA went to bid at walmart to sell their produced tvs, they were unable to achieve the lowballed price, a chinese manufactuer beat them cause the price they offer was actualy less then the price the RCA picture tube manufactuer paid for the glass to make their own tubes. when that company went to press a case against china walmart actualy backed the chinese in the case. the picture tube maker actualy went out of business, so now those worker are out of a job or more likly working at the neighbor hood walmart.

would that in anyway qualify for treason?
damn did i go off on a tangent?

 

No I wouldn't. Who made that accusation?

 

What was presented as fact? They haven't hidden the fact that it was edited. Maybe they were conveying to you an opinion on the topic.

 

i just thought i'd make a wild association too... except mine was a bit more on topic than yours

 

Oh, OK. Well done Pimp.

 

Sorry Canine but Pimp does have a point...

Hardly contributionary is it?

 

I wasn't dealing with the point at all really, apart from the brief opinion based on the video i saw when it first surfaced. (I don't know which version that was as i still haven't viewed and compared the two versions offered here). As i clearly stated, i was too tired to venture into the rest of the post. I wouldn't have posted any 'attack' on you at all had you presented nothing more than a rational debate, which is what the rest of your post amounts to. Whether i agree or not is another matter, but i had no objections on how you presented it. I was simply commenting on what immediately jumped out at me, which i was able to respond to without any close analysis before turning in for the night.

If you want to present a case on honesty and start out with ignorant, jingoistic crap like the anti-French tirade, you have already discredited your position on the case you are 'impartially' attempting to portray. If you are serious about wanting to know the truth, then you need to start closely examining a few of the attitudes you have...in complete self-honesty. Are those really your own views reached by your own honest, impartial evaluation of the situation, or are they the result of being carried along by the force of a drum-beating patriotic fervour currently being whipped up throughout the nation? (WITH US or AGAINST US etc). No matter how well meaning you are, you'll never arrive anywhere worthwhile in your views while you have that crap influencing and colouring your judgement.

I'm very glad to hear it! I for one make every effort to avoid misleading anyone on anything i present. I wouldn't just view that as a slight on the person being mislead, but as a slight on myself and all i hold dear as well. I don't need to trick people into seeing what is wrong with genocide and mass murder...i would have thought it was self evident. Therefore, i don't see why anyone against this war would bother attempting to mislead to make their point...there's no need with all the grave crimes being committed by the occupying army on a daily basis, not to mention the whole illegality of the war in the first place!

Of course. Which leads me on to Canine's post...

Your selective misquoting subtley but significantly altered the tone of my statement, which did make it look 'sort of typecasting', when in fact my actual words were..."brainwashed, moronic zealot of the U.S.variety...
And as for this:

...if you're still smarting at my comments to you in this thread, then i suggest you develop a thicker skin.

 

So you were refering to the brainwashed, moronic zealot of the U.S. variety that is neither brainwashed, moronic, or a zealot of the U.S were you? No, no, you were calling him a variety, but of what? Nothing! You weren't calling him a variety of anything, you called him that solely to preceed it with with the words "brainwashed", "moronic" and "zealot" simply to denigrate his opinion; ironicaly you do it while criticising his "bullshit" name calling (anti-american french bastards, I believe it was).

No, you place too much value on your comments, I was just pointing out that you think it's OK to labell something "bullshit" and disregard it because of the language used when it doesn't fit your ideology, but I'm narrow-minded and refuse to aknowledge change when I do the same thing. A blatent double standard which you will no doubt, in your best Bush-like manner, refuse to accept as a mistake.