The "civilising" effects of imperialist aggression

Discussion in 'More Serious Topics' started by Nursey, Feb 19, 2006.

  1. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    This is an excellent and informative article on Iraq written just after the initial invasion and sums the whole thing up brilliantly, so is worth the amount of reading.


     
  2. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

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    745
    The roman imperialist agressions in Gaul had a civilicing effect.
    They got aqueducts and steambaths and a good latin education.
     
  3. pimpchichi

    pimpchichi Active Member

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    are you comparing those to McDonalds, Disneyworld, and erm good? american edumacation?
     
  4. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

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    745
    Chockelatchipped vanilla icecream. Refrigerators and a buffet of plastic-wrapped goodies on every corner. Jummie. Lasersurgery and microwave and FAT poor people.

    Yes siree. Thats something. Even if US edu sucks, USA is still a good educational example for anyone entering modernity. Not to forget computers and entertainementcenters and small mansions for the middleclass. Cars for everybody.

    And just like with the romans. Its all pretty vulgar. Besides, classical theatre died. Again !
     
  5. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

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    745
    If Mickey and Donald stabbed eachother it would be classical circus.
     
  6. pimpchichi

    pimpchichi Active Member

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    7,211
    and of course you'd be all for eliminating around - say - 95% of the worlds population so the worlds resources will stretch to supporting all those things in that amuuurrkin dream you got going there...

    pyramid schemes 4LYF!!
     
  7. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

    Messages:
    745
    The Iraq invasion was a fiasco. First the first gulfwar, and then strangeling saddams recources for ten years. It looks pretty smart, but all they got were these insurgents.
    In the first GW the insurgents against Saddam held something like 14 out of 19 provinces.
    If senior went in at that time ....................

    The agencies were scared that it was staged by bathists and someone had told them about a place called Viet-nam in secret agent school. It could be I am wrong and that it was a bathist ploy. In that case i know a few bathists. They are artists , pragmatic muslims, nice guys ! But there is an inner moustache, just waiting to crawl onto any mans upper lip. Better safe than sorry as they say in Texas :wink:
     
  8. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    2,881
    pimpchichi wrote...

    Doesn't necessarily follow, that's a slippery slope argument. You're assuming that the means of production doesn't become more efficient, that the materials required to make the "things" that are part of the American dream are non-renewable, and you're also assuming that they will remain the same size, weight, and power consumption. There are 3 solutions to any given supply problem, you can fix it supply side (make more), demand side (you can make people demand less), or technology (make something better). You're assuming that the world won't move towards all 3 of those options in the future. Consumerism won't go on forever, eventually we'll reach the point where built in obsolescence is no longer acceptable in products.
     
  9. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

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    745
    They are really good at getting cellphones smaller. Getting smaller cars is impossible.
    They get their dollars from peddling oil. Not from improving efficiency. In addition, decreased demand in the west, would mean more available energy for potential competitors. Now that China is alive again, they are probably starting development of fuelefficiency.
    ( Two player you know ) :)

    Getting rid of 95% of worldpop would be neat, but the rest of us would implode in the greatest revenge-fest ever. ( Due to all those uncles and cousins and sisters and all ).
     
  10. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    2,881
    XerxesX wrote...

    So what, smaller doesn't always mean better. If you could make an SUV with the same size and power it has now, but it got 66 mpg, wouldn't that be better? Not to mention it would be lighter, more impact resistant, and easier to dispose of/recycle. The future is in-evitable, it will come whether we like it or not.

    XerxesX also wrote...

    Anything anyone developes is going to be on the world market in 10 years in regards to fuel efficiency. It makes more sense for the people of the United States to own the patents on the fuel efficiency alternatives if the U.S. is looking after it's own best interests. But it isn't. Short term planning is the rule in the U.S. right now. Strategic long term planning isn't really in vogue right now.
     
  11. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

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    745
    I am not sure of that. The same worldmarket applies to other commodities like iron and rubber. Some friends in Nicaragua start import of chinese threewheelers soon. They spend 2 liters on 100 kilometers.
     
  12. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    2,881
    I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds wrong.
     
  13. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

    Messages:
    745
    Car with three wheels ? Iron and all those commodities cost more now that China is on the stage.

    A US Gallon is 3.78 liters Hm ! The little chinese triped gets aproximately 237 miles per US gallon. But its definitely not a 4wd. Might steal markets in other countries though. If they are not blocked.
     
  14. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    2,881
    You're forgetting that technology leads to the developement of other materials. Carbon fiber inlays in plastic are about 1/8 the weight of steel, but have a higher tensile strength and 14 times the impact resistance. You're thinking too short term.
     
  15. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    7,378
  16. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    Damn. Forgot the reference.
     
  17. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

    Messages:
    745
    Nursey wrote
    And all this technology spells: Death to democracy. No need to go into personal experiences. Please remember that this was developed in the competition that allways exists between the men that are of beast. Do not blame singular entities and states .
     
  18. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    7,378
    ...though some are more 'of beast' than others, it would seem. They win the 'men that are of beast' competition...and the prize goes to...

     
  19. XerxesX

    XerxesX New Member

    Messages:
    745
    I am not sure USSR would have been any better. There is a difference between winning the "beast"-award and winning the "cold-war award of excelent world domination". Idi Amin could stand a chance in as "beast" runner up. He did not contend in the second.

    They always seem to fare fine. Perhaps we just have to recognise our animal-instincts ?
     
  20. diogenes

    diogenes New Member

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    2,881
    Democracy will do one of 2 things. It will become a pure democracy, with every citizen involved in every decision in real time, or it will become obsolete and be replaced by something better. I see it being replaced by something better. Possibly cyber-dictatorship, which I don't have a problem with, if done correctly.
     

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