Lies will get you nowhere!

Discussion in 'More Serious Topics' started by Nursey, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    October 30, 2004

    We hear these days many high ranking US military, defense analysts, political experts, and field generals who always - or often - require the condition of anonymity talk about American blunder in Iraq.

    These highly decorated pundits, and prophets occasionally produced disinformation to lull to sleep an increasingly fidgety public opinion wondering what the hell US is doing in Iraq.

    What happened! What exactly is happening in Mesopotamia? Aren't we almighty? Aren't we the most powerful military in the World? Isn't the Lord of the Armies with us? What is going on in Iraq?

    The mightiest army elements in documented history are being hunted like turkeys on the Mesopotamian plains. The Army, which can destroy this whole planet many times with the WMD, it has amassed, is fighting ghosts. This corporate army defending the US way of life, a beacon for humanity (Abu Ghraib!) is on its knees begging for help, asking for extra troops from countries which hardly exist on the map or we never heard of before like Fiji, Bangladesh, Azerbaijan, Moldavia, and others, through bribes, tricks and schemes for a desperate coalition of the billing.

    How come the US can't win its glorious battle against these bare footed people, draped in sheet clothes? Understand -Dishdashas- living in mud houses. Why don't they just accept to wave US flags? Discover our porn, violent and polluting culture, and welcome our liberating army of yobs and mercenaries.

    To explain their failure in Iraq and to prepare public opinion for the Iraqi inescapable headlight! These big shots imprisoned in their cultural and linguistic ghettoes, declare that the war in Iraq was not well planned. There are not enough troops! Abizeid -Tarzan- shouts we are in trouble in Iraq! Sanchez, Abu Ghraib torture hero, blames his mercenary army failures to the lack of spare parts. Iraqi climate it is said to make all US high sophisticated equipment null. Dust storms are the number one enemy. The Iraqi soil, and the mud engulf Abram and Bradley tanks. Impossible to catch or eradicate, the insurgents vanish away.

    Other big shots blame it all on sugar daddy Bremer! He disbanded the Iraqi Army, made redundant thousands of Iraqis working in the Administration of their country, cutting their livelihood in a scratch of a pencil.

    But in the very first place let me tell you one thing old chaps! Wood headed military US, lend an ear! - You know better than anyone else that US is not a country that goes to war crossing thousands of miles, with hundreds of thousands of army rabble, hundreds more of mercenaries, spending, and now wasting, billions of dollars, putting its reputation as the mightiest frightening army in history and its global interests at tremendous risk, for just a promenade, a cultural tour to the first urban center in History 8 thousands years ago, Ur of the Chaldeans. Does this army behave in a higgledy-piggledy manner?

    War planners, strategists, these analysts, these (false) prophets are hatched in special think tanks poultries. They don't utter words at random, as their military arm does in Iraq shooting, they spend their time collecting data, they never lack plans, their computers are teeming with probability plans and anti plans. They are connected with satellites around the clock, and, their boss has a direct access to God! These people are not kidding; they are quite serious, man!

    So what happened to our US army in Iraq! Why it is being defeated. Why is its’ nose is being trampled into the mire? Why can't we defeat these Arabs?

    Yes what these US visionaries forgot was the fabric of the Iraqi people. They never read Iraqi glorious history. They never thought that Iraqis would fight to safeguard their identity, their religion, their culture and their honor. Iraq never accepted to be ruled by foreigners. Iraq again is blessed as it always was during centuries to play its role as the center of civilization as it was the cradle of the first civilization in the history of mankind. Yes it is blessed because at its hands the mightiest army in history is being decapitated on its soil. They have done it before-- with Persian Empire forcing it embrace Islam and Arabic culture and repudiating its paganism and idols.

    Yes computer plans speak the language you want to talk to them. US war planners never added to their plans words like, honor, dignity, pride, freedom, martyrdom, soil, faith, courage, because these words don't exist in these people dictionaries or mentality. This is why Iraq war is lost to the US. That is why the US will never again raise its head amongst the Nations. That is why it is an asymmetrical war. Iraqis are combating the enemy with their naked hands and with a heart filled with faith, and the enemy of Mankind is fighting for the petrol.





    Abu Assur, Al-Moharer
     
  2. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    A Message From The "Iraq Resistance"


    "We are simple people who chose principles over fear."


    Iraqi Resistance speech on videotape December 13 2004



    People of the world! These words come to you from those who up to the day of the invasion were struggling to survive under the sanctions imposed by the criminal regimes of the U.S. and Britain .



    We are simple people who chose principles over fear.



    We have suffered crimes and sanctions, which we consider the true weapons of mass destruction.



    Years and years of agony and despair, while the condemned UN traded with our oil revenues in the name of world stability and peace.



    Over two million innocents died waiting for a light at the end of a tunnel that only ended with the occupation of our country and the theft of our resources.



    After the crimes of the administrations of the U.S and Britain in Iraq , we have chosen our future. The future of every resistance struggle ever in the history of man.



    It is our duty, as well as our right, to fight back the occupying forces, which their nations will be held morally and economically responsible; for what their elected governments have destroyed and stolen from our land.



    We have not crossed the oceans and seas to occupy Britain or the U.S. nor are we responsible for 9/11. These are only a few of the lies that these criminals present to cover their true plans for the control of the energy resources of the world, in face of a growing China and a strong unified Europe . It is Ironic that the Iraqi's are to bear the full face of this large and growing conflict on behalf of the rest of this sleeping world.



    We thank all those, including those of Britain and the U.S. , who took to the streets in protest against this war and against Globalism. We also thank France , Germany and other states for their position, which least to say are considered wise and balanced, til now.



    Today, we call on you again.



    We do not require arms or fighters, for we have plenty.



    We ask you to form a world wide front against war and sanctions. A front that is governed by the wise and knowing. A front that will bring reform and order. New institutions that would replace the now corrupt.



    Stop using the U.S. dollar, use the Euro or a basket of currencies. Reduce or halt your consumption of British and U.S. products. Put an end to Zionism before it ends the world. Educate those in doubt of the true nature of this conflict and do not believe their media for their casualties are far higher than they admit.



    We only wish we had more cameras to show the world their true defeat.



    The enemy is on the run. They are in fear of a resistance movement they can not see nor predict.



    We, now choose when, where, and how to strike. And as our ancestors drew the first sparks of civilization, we will redefine the word “conquest.“



    Today we write a new chapter in the arts of urban warfare.



    Know that by helping the Iraqi people you are helping yourselves, for tomorrow may bring the same destruction to you.



    In helping the Iraqi people does not mean dealing for the Americans for a few contracts here and there. You must continue to isolate their strategy.



    This conflict is no longer considered a localized war. Nor can the world remain hostage to the never-ending and regenerated fear that the American people suffer from in general.



    We will pin them here in Iraq to drain their resources, manpower, and their will to fight. We will make them spend as much as they steal, if not more.



    We will disrupt, then halt the flow of our stolen oil, thus, rendering their plans useless.



    And the earlier a movement is born, the earlier their fall will be.



    And to the American soldiers we say, you can also choose to fight tyranny with us. Lay down your weapons, and seek refuge in our mosques, churches and homes. We will protect you. And we will get you out of Iraq , as we have done with a few others before you.



    Go back to your homes, families, and loved ones. This is not your war. Nor are you fighting for a true cause in Iraq .



    And to George W. Bush, we say, “You have asked us to ‘Bring it on’, and so have we. Like never expected. Have you another challenge?”
     
  3. smiles

    smiles New Member

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    1,323
    damn a speech like that makes ME want to pick up an ak and a machete
     
  4. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

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    QUOTE - "So what happened to our US army in Iraq! Why it is being defeated. Why is its’ nose is being trampled into the mire? Why can't we defeat these Arabs?"


    Did Bhagdad Bob write this? Does anyone with a single brain cell left really think that the US is being defeated? This falls under the "truth confronts, absurdity follows" category. The only reason this conflict has lasted for any length of time is the habit the US has of trying to avoid casualties to non combatants. Otherwise, this could have been over in one hot flash.


    Barry
     
  5. smiles

    smiles New Member

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    1,323
    oh how NICE of them
     
  6. unlimited-time

    unlimited-time Active Member

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    3,352
    ROFL.Since when did that ever happen?
     
  7. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq

    A new report blames the continuing bloodshed in Iraq on America's failure to honestly assess the situation.


    The US is facing increasingly deadly attacks in Iraq because, as in the Vietnam War, it failed to honestly assess facts on the ground and is living in "fantasy land", a report says.

    The report, prepared by Anthony Cordesman, senior fellow of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said Administration spokesmen and women had appeared to live "in a fantasy land" when giving accounts of events in Iraq.

    Mr Cordesman, a former Pentagon official who has made several trips to Iraq, said Iraqi spies were a serious threat to US operations and that there was no evidence insurgent numbers were declining, despite vigorous US and Iraqi counterattacks.

    The criticism comes as US officials admitted that the deadliest attack on Americans in Iraq was probably the work of a suicide bomber, and a major US contractor pulled out of the country, saying it was too dangerous. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld also conceded violence was unlikely to end after elections on January 30.

    "I think looking for a peaceful Iraq after the elections would be a mistake. I think our expectations level ought to be realistic about that," he said.



    (If you read the whole article, bear in mind that the person calling the Iraqi Resistance fighters 'terrorists' and 'extremists' is himself a terrorist/extremist.)
     
  8. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    7,378
    Just think about that. More 'excess deaths' than there are posts in this forum! And most of them were women and children. Merry Chri$tma$ everyone!

     
  9. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

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    5,606

    Just so we keep a balance in vibrations, I will quote a oft skipped statistic from the very article QUOTE - "Two-thirds of all violent deaths were reported in one cluster in the city of Falluja."

    and I might add... where every effort at diplomacy had failed again, the combatant refusing to lay down arms when their own police and government begged them to and tried everything to avoid bloodshed.

    I love honest assessment and truth. The piece above is neither. It reports facts, but the conclusions drawn from them are absolutely invalid. Stop eating invalid data. You may regurgitate what you eat.

    Barry
     
  10. pimpchichi

    pimpchichi Active Member

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    7,211
    and then of course there's the combatants who surrender and are disarmed only to be shot dead a day later after lying there overnight waiting to be evacuated for medical treatment
     
  11. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

    Messages:
    5,606

    PD - where do you get ideas like that? Let me remind everyone - American soldiers, as have soldiers from every country in every war, committ atrocities. MANY have been courtmartialed and jailed for this in the current war. The American military is not represented by the few. I have three family members on active duty. They are three of the nicest, most decent young men you will ever meet. Thay write and email back about how they are helping in the country. They would be appalled to think that someone believes that they are killing unarmed prisoners, etc.

    Barry
     
  12. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    The End Of Warfare

    by Abhay Mehta





    Against the most heavily armed opponent in the history of War, Fallujah has still not let itself be "taken" to date. The mightiest military machine in history has met its match. A turning point in military affairs? The end of warfare, as practiced by the Americans - the application of overwhelming force to obtain a victory?




    AP
    STRENGTH OR DESPAIR? US Soldiers re-enact Ben Hur prior to Fallujah assault




    Fallujah per se, on the face of it, is not a strategic or a militarily significant target. It however represents the "great challenge" to the US/UK's military occupation of Sovereign Iraq since April 2003.

    In the first siege of Fallujah in April 2004, the Iraqi Resistance inflicted a severe defeat on the Americans.

    In April 2004, while over 1,200 Iraqis were killed, blown up, burnt or shot alive by the Americans -- two thirds of them civilians, mostly women and children -- while 2,000-pound bombs were falling on the the city, AC-130 Spectre gunships were demolishing entire city blocks in less than a minute and of course silence of the plop as Iraqis targeted by marine snipers hit the ground. Nonetheless the operative portion remains: the Marines were beaten back in no uncertain terms. This was followed by a "truce".

    The truce did not hold for very long.

    This humiliation of the American military was spun as a "strategic retreat" but the desire to get rid of the "weeping sore that Fallujah was" has been on top of the US agenda since then. Fallujah represented a "stellar act of defiance" one that allowed the resistance to "actually secure and control a city, and to beat off the US military"

    The second formal large scale assault on Fallujah (Nov./Dec 2004) pitted images of the world's most powerful military force against fighters in tennis shoes, wielding homemade rocket launchers. There were three declared tactical objectives.

    The first was to either kill or capture the Jordanian born "terrorist" "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" (if indeed he exists) and to "battle and destroy some 4000 to 5000 suspected fighters".

    The Americans also vowed to "liberate" the residents of Fallujah from "criminal elements" and to "secure Fallujah" for the January elections.

    Lastly, it appears an additional declared tactical/political objective of the American Military's task was to engage in a "fight of good versus evil". Additionally it appears (presumably per their intelligence reports) that the mission also was to "destroy" "Satan" since it appears that "he lives in Fallujah"

    On the face of it, it appears as if none of these tactical/military objectives have been met, including, it appears, the desire to presumably meet Mr Satan, resident of Fallujah.

    As for the other very laudable and rationally quantifiable objectives including that of stuffing democracy into a city by simply obliterating it, all of these seem to be a bit astray.

    48 hours into the offensive, the official narratives were filled with reports that Zarqawi (if indeed such a entity exists) may have "slipped outside" of their perimeter defenses.

    This of course left Mr "Satan" still in residence together with the rest of the unfortunate inhabitants of the "militant stronghold". The city of 300,000 residents had perhaps an estimated 40,000 civilians left per the US military. Since this estimated number included 5000 resident "militants", one can presume that the rest (per the US military) would be civilians.

    The actual civilian count remaining in the city on the 8th of November is around around 60,000 to as much as 100,000 since males between the ages 16 and 60 were disbarred by the US military from leaving the city.

    One can also infer the most vulnerable--the poor, the old, the women, children and the sick--continued to reside in their city in significant numbers -- of the order of 40,000+

    With the "target softening" bombing raids that killed a few hundred civilians in the first week of November, the first formal target of the US military armored assault was doctors and the nurses. These were the first to be eliminated as these were "legitimate military target" and since "insurgents" were "forcing the doctors there to release propaganda and false information".

    The assault has left as many as 10,000 civilian dead--perhaps much much more . The Red Cross/Red Crescent estimate was upwards of 6000 as of November 25th. Till date no formal Red Cross/Red Crescent operation has been allowed in the city.

    What the images of Phantom Fury did not convey is that this assault is the largest concentration of heavy armor in one place, since the fall of Berlin. This was the first time since World War II that "an American armored task force" has been turned "loose in a city with no restrictions".



    More to the point, the force of as much as 20,000 soldiers (12,000 to 17,000 American/coalition soldiers, about 2000 odd Iraqi "National guards" and perhaps 1000 odd peshmergas) were supported by an estimated 1100 to as much as 2000 armored vehicles and tanks. Air support was largely carrier based out of the gulf and B-52's from bases outside of Iraq.

    The armor alone represents the heaviest ever concentration of armor since the fall of Berlin (1945) in one place against a single military objective.

    Phantom Fury was officially underway on the 8th of November and declared to be a sweeping victory on or about the 15th of November.

    Thereafter the military communiqués and the press reports have been limited to occasional deaths in the "Anbar province". That all of Fallujah is under "coalition" control since then i.e on or about November 15th 2004. Since then detailed stories on Fallujah in the official narrative have stopped completely or refer to action/discoveries between the 8th and the 19th of November 04.

    There is no evidence of what has transpired save intermittent but very very regular losses attributed to "pockets of resistance" in the "Anbar Province". And, yes, reportage on the brand new movie on Fallujah starring Harrison Ford.

    Now for a moment, consider the substantive anomalies in the official discourse. Consider one such example- Satellite Imagery of Fallujah (block by block including "after action") available to the media till the 15th of November and carried in graphic detail day by day from the 8th of Nov. through the 15th stopped abruptly. There are no explanations.


    Courtesy: globalsecurity.org

    There are no satellite pictures of Fallujah available in the public domain after November 15th.

    Or consider that the Red Cross/Red Crescent has not been allowed to enter the city in any substantive manner. Today is the 20th of December and it has still not been allowed in.

    Or consider another break in the regular stream of consciousness. No reporter has set foot in the city on or after the 22nd of November.

    A "Great Victory" like this and no footage?

    These anomalies are noteworthy. Therefore it is very unclear whether this is indeed the case or, as a matter of fact, the converse is.

    Fallujah has not been taken. Not only has Fallujah not been taken, but the coalition forces have staged several retreats and are now confined largely to the outside of the city.

    The Iraqi resistance is currently in control of most of the city and have forced back at least three of the largest armored assaults in recent history.

    In fact, one can make a claim that this was the largest series of armored assault ever. The objective is 16 sq km and if one were to normalise over time and term for incremental intensity in firepower that this represents, then these are historically unprecedented. Now if these were not only repulsed, but perhaps defeated, it leads to something that ought to be examined more carefully.




    Despite being flattened (perhaps about 12,000 to as much as 20,000 homes out of an estimated 50,000 razed) by the application of, as US Army Gen. John Abizaid put it, "more military power per square inch than anybody else on earth".

    Curiously, the US general then very very strangely goes on to add: "If you ever even contemplate our nuclear capability, it should give everybody the clear understanding that there is no power that can match the United States militarily."

    Oh. Let me contemplate the nuclear capability of the US. Never mind. It is a bore.

    So?

    The General also said, when talking about generating "more military power per square inch than anybody else on earth". that "every one knows it". Oh. The words of the General--the mightiest general of them all--Commander Centom, do not appear to have been heard. At least, the Iraqi resistance has not heard them.

    The mightiest military machine ever in world history with the mightiest firepower the world has ever seen has been mightily trying to capture Fallujah. But no luck so far.

    Instead the Americans faced an opposition that broke the back of the assault. Instead of "breaking bone by bone" and crushing "the backbone of the insurgents", it seems that the same has been done unto them as they were planning to do unto the resistance.

    At the peak of the assault, the Americans held no more than 35-40% of Fallujah (largely the north on or around the 18th of November) Thereafter, they appear to have been steadily repulsed and in fact the coalition forces currently have been repulsed to where they were on November 13th or thereabouts and to the outskirts of Fallujah.

    Now consider the fate of the rest of the occupation. It is in tatters. The mightiest military in the world cannot control an 8 km stretch of road, perhaps the single most important road in all of Iraq – the Airport Road from the center of Baghdad to the airport. The purported troop concentration is 120 soldiers per km of a open road and despite that the Australian defence minister could not even make it to the green zone and simply flew back from the airport.

    Unlike Vietnam, where the Americans were largely in control of the cities for most parts (save Tet, and even there complete control was not lost), the US/UK garrisons are isolated in the middle of a hostile population.

    They cannot even traverse a km or two out of the "green zone". Their supply convoys have come to a standstill over the last month and a salvage operation of re-supplying by air has started over the last 10-12 days. Air supplies are limited and there is no reason to believe that these can be significant (a max of 400 tonnes a day, slated to rise to 1600 tonnes a day against an estimated minimum 20,000 odd tonnes needed daily to keep a force of 160,000+ fed, watered, armored and resupplied).

    The 300 mile long supply line is toast. Well, at least any thing dark, metallic, armored or otherwise. (4000 pounds of armor on a humvee that can carry a max load of 5000 pounds) Can it move? And even that is not helpful – in the words of the great military strategist, Rumsfeld, circa Dec 04, even tanks blow up. Why bother at all?

    Against the most heavily armed opponent in the history of War, Fallujah has still not let itself be "taken" to date (As of 20th Dec, 2004).

    Falluah and indeed the rest of Iraq post April 2003, heralds "supersymmetrical" warfare and the end of conventional warfare. This represents a turning point in military affairs – the end of warfare--as practiced by the Americans --i.e the application of overwhelming force to obtain a victory.

    Consider one such example. A RPG 7 can travel up to 300/700/950 meters. At 300 meters, even a basic warhead can penetrate 330 mm of steel armor. Yes, 33 cms, 13 inches--that is a lot of steel. The projectile would cost perhaps $30-40. Conservatively, a squad of 3 armed with RPG-7s have more than a fighting chance against a M1 Abrams. In close urban quarters, the advantage that the tank had (in say open ground in a conventional war) is completely lost.

    The cost/personnel advantage is noteworthy. With minimal or no training, just about any one can operate a RPG. A squad of say 3 would cost perhaps no more than $5000 to equip. Against this, the M1 Abrams ("the mightiest tank", 70 odd tonnes of steel, a few million a pop).



    Now consider the mightiest Gun in the West against the rookie squad of three. Throw in a street. Add cover (even rubble will do, in fact quite nicely, thank you)

    Even odds?

    Now consider for a moment. Consider a force of say a few thousand men -- the best in the business and certainly the bravest men on the face of this planet--say no more than 3000, anything more and it would be one sided. 3000 against 12,000 to 20,000 sounds about right.

    Now add ingenuity, intelligence and passion and a good reason to be very very angry. Throw in a just cause. In fact, the "most just cause of all".

    Now consider that these are equipped with only say RPG 7s as well as say RPG 9s, a few dozen Strellas, a few thousand modified versions of the S5K rocket, basic antiaircraft guns, a few hundred tonnes of say c4/semtex (it is quite cheap), a few thousand fin stabilised rockets (52 mm to 152 mm), basic artillery and mortar (say 60mm, 82mm, and 120mm shells), a few SAMs (say SAM7 and SAM 9), a few thousand grad rockets, faithful ole Kalasnikovs, a few hundred sniper rifles with say .50 mm explosive ammo. It may also be possible that few Samud and Abgail missiles (range of 100 km) are available. These are not very large missiles. Add a few more, nothing fancy again--say, the Tariq and Katyusha, very very basic indeed).

    There is more, but you get the idea. Not very state of the art weapons, far from it. But very very functional. Now, consider the sheer amount of counter offensive power these represent.

    Add to that pre-prepared defensive positions, not very fancy for sure, but very functional and very very functional minefields with a variety of triggers. Throw in, the "most ingenious" booby traps ever.

    Add the Iraqi resistance--the bravest of the brave--operating these. Well now, it is state of the art. The State of the Art of Urban Warfare.

    Oh yes, And yes, how can I forget toys. Well, one needs to buy those since "remote controls from toys" (Well at least as per the American Military) are a primary trigger in IEDs.

    So we add a few 10s of dollars per toy car and remote kit, say from your local K-mart.? Turns out that an army cannot be equipped from K-mart, to quote the great military tactician Rumsfeld once again, circa early Dec 03. Also turns out Centcom claims that they cannot jam these (circa Dec 04),
    It does appear that we have a problem here. Toy remotes. Rather sad, would you not say? Coming from the second in command of the Mightiest Super powers' mightiest command. Beam me up, Scotty.

    Now pit against them a "superpower" that has already spent 150 billion of declining currency for sure but buys plenty still. Do not forget to add 450 billion recurring every year. (Hey, it can buy anything but armor). Add another 100 billion on the cards (Jan 04).

    But this does not help.

    Short of using a neutron or a nuclear bomb (the Americans did use chemical weapons in Fallujah), despite all efforts, what the Americans have been able to achieve is relatively little, if anything at all, even in the best case estimates of the official narrative.

    45 days and going on and on and on and on.

    Oh, oh, but, but, but we took Baghdad in 21 days.

    45 days for 16 sq kms.....

    The opposing American army in this case has not been able to actually "take" them out. Never mind control or physically occupying 16 sq kms.



    In fact, even a neutron bomb would not be militarily significant. You need to "take" it and keep it and keep on keeping it and keep on and on and on....

    And they have not. They will not. They cannot

    The limits of raw firepower have been reached and no matter what (2000 pound bombs to container cluster bombs to the new "large Abrams" tank. Oh well, if not a RPG7, a RPG9 or two will do the trick, thank you), the American military objective is no longer possible.

    Shoulder-held surface to air weapons limit the role of armored copters. In fact there are several 'copter graveyards in and around Fallujah. Big ones. Some of them are quite near the tank killing fields. Yes, several hundred armored vehicles resting, not quite in peace but hey...

    Close air support is not feasible on account of the proximity of "friendlies". Savage bombing without limits does not help.

    The war in the former Yugoslavia is a case in point. Despite 72 days of non stop bombing, it is now (post facto) a conceded position that the opposing side lost no more than 5-10% of their military hardware. (The loss was political, but that is another story.)

    Now consider an entirely different narrative. Of the the land between the two rivers, of your ancestors and my ancestors, of the fountainheads of civilisation, of Sumer, Ur, Mesopotamia, of Lions, of Hummurabi, of Salah al Din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub and much much more.

    And yes, a place. Called Fallujah. But, say, about 84 years ago

    And now add to the narrative, parts of the present: a unilaterally disarmed opponent (remember the tizzy circa late March 03 about night vision equipment? Night vision? Never mind state of the art SAMs and Kornets. The sanctions? Oh what were they?

    Now add 25 million men, women and children – the richest denizens on this planet (Yes the richest. In every sense. As the very inheritors of civilisation itself. Or in a more mundane sense with 300 billion+ barrels of oil, an average Iraqi's garbage would be reconstructing the streets of Manhattan in a fairer world (the Americans have in contrast 22.5 billion barrels left), and, yes, the bravest. And the most suffering on the face of this planet

    Add to that the Story of Fallujah (circa late 2004). Then perhaps you will not be so astonished to hear what appear to be strange words to your ears.

    For these are Iraqi words. Yes, Iraqi. Dated 10th of December 2004

    "The enemy is on the run. They are in fear of a resistance movement they can not see nor predict. We, now choose when, where, and how to strike. And as our ancestors drew the first sparks of civilization, we will redefine the word 'conquest'. Today we write a new chapter in the arts of urban warfare"




    The Iraqi resistance has put an end to "the end of history". A new history is being written. Yes indeed it has been written. Not just another chapter but an entirely new book. One may see the the beginning of the great American retreat across the oceans, if they are lucky. Over 50,000 American soldiers have been medically evacuated out of Iraq till Nov. 2004 (interesting number, is it not?).

    Yes, there will be a lot lot more lives lost and the endgame's contours are still unclear.

    Oh the last line. Yes the last line addressed specifically to one Mr. George W. Bush:

    "You have asked us to ‘Bring it on’, and so have we. Like never expected. Have you another challenge?"

    Yes Indeed, has he another challenge? No, he is a trifle busy, you see. We did try a photo-op on the 18th of Dec 2004. We are not fools you see. But no photos.

    I wonder why..

    Raw unopposed firepower has reached its limits. Never have so few battled against so many in face of overwhelming odds and brought a superpower to its knees. And the nightmare continues.

    It is indeed the greatest military victory in history. The self proclaimed mightiest empire that ever was, in fact, turns out to have had the shortest reign ever.

    This Empire met its match in the land between the two rivers.

     
  13. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

    Messages:
    5,606
    From the last paragraph of the post above ......"Never have so few battled against so many in face of overwhelming odds and brought a superpower to its knees...........It is indeed the greatest military victory in history.


    WHEN THE TRUTH CONFRONTS, ABSURDITY IS SURE TO FOLLOW.

    Does any one besides this "King of Denial" (and his Queen Nursey) really think that Iraq has brought the US to its knees?

    (Yawns).....(shakes head in disbelief).....(shrugs shoulders and gives up)

    Barry
     
  14. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

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    An international think-tank in a report
    published here on Thursday announced that the US campaign in Iraq has
    failed to achieve Washington`s desired goals, warning that anti-US
    sentiments have deteriorated in Iraq.
    "In Iraq, the US is engaged in a war it may already have lost" ,
    stressed the Brussels-based International Crisis Group (ICG) in its
    latest report on Iraq.
    "Iraqi hostility toward the American-led occupation, more
    widespread and deeper rooted than the US has acknowledged, means the
    Bush administration`s policy there can no longer achieve its original
    aims."
    The ICG stressed that the initial US objective was to turn Iraq
    into a model for the region.
    It said the US initially planned to make Iraq a democratic,
    secular and free-market oriented government, sympathetic to US
    interests, not openly hostile toward Israel, and possibly home to
    long-term American military bases.
    "But hostility toward the US and suspicion of its intentions among
    large numbers of Iraqis have progressed so far that this is virtually
    out of reach," the ICG warned.
    The report further added that soaring resentment feeds the
    insurgency to make the transition process a source of the legitimacy
    deficit.
    The ICG further called on the US to recognize the new realities
    under which it operates and accept the dual disengagement course.
    The group said the US should gradually disengage from Iraq in
    political and military domains.
    "Washington has to realize: you occupy the Iraq you have, not the
    Iraq you might wish to have later", states Robert Malley, Director of
    Crisis Group`s Middle East and North Africa Program.
    "The credibility of Iraqi institutions depends essentially on
    their ability to respond to the Iraqi population`s needs and
    aspirations, which inevitably will entail distancing themselves from
    the US-led occupation", opines Peter Harling, ICG`s Middle East
    Analyst.

    Source
     
  15. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,378
    ]War Crimes
    The Washington Post | Editorial

    Thursday 23 December 2004

    Thanks to a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union and other human rights groups, thousands of pages of government documents released this month have confirmed some of the painful truths about the abuse of foreign detainees by the U.S. military and the CIA - truths the Bush administration implacably has refused to acknowledge. Since the publication of photographs of abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison in the spring the administration's whitewashers - led by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld - have contended that the crimes were carried out by a few low-ranking reservists, that they were limited to the night shift during a few chaotic months at Abu Ghraib in 2003, that they were unrelated to the interrogation of prisoners and that no torture occurred at the Guantánamo Bay prison where hundreds of terrorism suspects are held. The new documents establish beyond any doubt that every part of this cover story is false.

    Though they represent only part of the record that lies in government files, the documents show that the abuse of prisoners was already occurring at Guantánamo in 2002 and continued in Iraq even after the outcry over the Abu Ghraib photographs. F.B.I. agents reported in internal e-mails and memos about systematic abuses by military interrogators at the base in Cuba, including beatings, chokings, prolonged sleep deprivation and humiliations such as being wrapped in an Israeli flag. "On a couple of occasions I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water," an unidentified F.B.I. agent wrote on Aug. 2, 2004. "Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18 to 24 hours or more." Two defense intelligence officials reported seeing prisoners severely beaten in Baghdad by members of a special operations unit, Task Force 6-26, in June. When they protested they were threatened and pictures they took were confiscated.

    Other documents detail abuses by Marines in Iraq, including mock executions and the torture of detainees by burning and electric shock. Several dozen detainees have died in U.S. custody. In many cases, Army investigations of these crimes were shockingly shoddy: Officials lost records, failed to conduct autopsies after suspicious deaths and allowed evidence to be contaminated. Soldiers found to have committed war crimes were excused with noncriminal punishments. The summary of one suspicious death of a detainee at the Abu Ghraib prison reads: "No crime scene exam was conducted, no autopsy conducted, no copy of medical file obtained for investigation because copy machine broken in medical office."

    Some of the abuses can be attributed to lack of discipline in some military units - though the broad extent of the problem suggests, at best, that senior commanders made little effort to prevent or control wrongdoing. But the documents also confirm that interrogators at Guantánamo believed they were following orders from Mr. Rumsfeld. One F.B.I. agent reported on May 10 about a conversation he had with Guantánamo's commander, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, who defended the use of interrogation techniques the F.B.I. regarded as illegal on the grounds that the military "has their marching orders from the Sec Def." Gen. Miller has testified under oath that dogs were never used to intimidate prisoners at Guantánamo, as authorized by Mr. Rumsfeld in December 2002; the F.B.I. papers show otherwise.

    The Bush administration refused to release these records to the human rights groups under the Freedom of Information Act until it was ordered to do so by a judge. Now it has responded to their publication with bland promises by spokesmen that any wrongdoing will be investigated. The record of the past few months suggests that the administration will neither hold any senior official accountable nor change the policies that have produced this shameful record. Congress, too, has abdicated its responsibility under its Republican leadership: It has been nearly four months since the last hearing on prisoner abuse. Perhaps intervention by the courts will eventually stem the violations of human rights that appear to be ongoing in Guantánamo, Iraq and Afghanistan. For now the appalling truth is that there has been no remedy for the documented torture and killing of foreign prisoners by this American government.
     
  16. ucicare

    ucicare Active Member

    Messages:
    5,606
    (Yawns)

    Barry
     
  17. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,378
    Unfortunately what you see above is the response of most American's to anything that threatens to dismantle their corporate media spun fantasy world.
     
  18. Schmed

    Schmed New Member

    Messages:
    4,009
    You are lucky used the word "most" Nuhseeeeee....

    *vomitsintohands*
     
  19. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,378
    But of course. :wink:

    *RUBS IN GLORIOUS TECHNICOLOUR VISION*
     
  20. Nursey

    Nursey Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,378
    From Baghdad Burning blog.

    This was an interesting piece of news a couple of days ago:

    The United States has ended its physical search for weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq, which was cited by the first administration of President George W Bush as the main reason for invading the country, the White House has said.

    Why does this not surprise me? Does it surprise anyone? I always had the feeling that the only people who actually believed this war was about weapons of mass destruction were either paranoid Americans or deluded expatriate Iraqis- or a combination of both. I wonder now, after hundreds and hundreds of Americans actually died on Iraqi soil and over a hundred-thousand Iraqis are dead, how Americans view the current situation. I have another question- the article mentions a "Duelfer Report" stating the weapons never existed and all the intelligence was wrong. This report was supposedly published in October 2004. The question is this: was this report made public before the elections? Did Americans actually vote for Bush with this knowledge?

    Over here, it's not really "news" in the sense that it's not new. We've been expecting a statement like this for the last two years. While we were aware the whole WMD farce was just a badly produced black comedy, it's still upsetting to hear Bush's declaration that he was wrong. It's upsetting because it just confirms the worst: right-wing Americans don't care about justifying this war. They don't care about right or wrong or innocents dead and more to die. They were somewhat ahead of the game. When they saw their idiotic president wasn't going to find weapons anywhere in Iraq, they decided it would be about mass graves. It wasn't long before the very people who came to 'liberate' a sovereign country soon began burying more Iraqis in mass graves. The smart weapons began to stupidly kill 'possibly innocent' civilians (they are only 'definitely innocent' if they are working with the current Iraqi security forces or American troops). It went once more from protecting poor Iraqis from themselves to protecting Americans from 'terrorists'. Zarqawi very conveniently entered the picture.

    Zarqawi is so much better than WMD. He's small, compact and mobile. He can travel from Falloojeh to Baghdad to Najaf to Mosul… whichever province or city really needs to be oppressed. Also, conveniently, he looks like the typical Iraqi male- dark hair, dark eyes, olive skin, medium build. I wonder how long it will take the average American to figure out that he's about as substantial as our previously alleged WMD.

    Now we're being 'officially' told that the weapons never existed. After Iraq has been devastated, we're told it's a mistake. You look around Baghdad and it is heart-breaking. The streets are ravaged, the sky is a bizarre grayish-bluish color- a combination of smoke from fires and weapons and smog from cars and generators. There is an endless wall that seems to suddenly emerge in certain areas to protect the Green Zoners... There is common look to the people on the streets- under the masks of fear, anger and suspicion, there's also a haunting look of uncertainty and indecision. Where is the country going? How long will it take for things to even have some vague semblance of normality? When will we ever feel safe?

    A question poses it self at this point- why don't they let the scientists go if the weapons don't exist? Why do they have Iraqi scientists like Huda Ammash, Rihab Taha and Amir Al Saadi still in prison? Perhaps they are waiting for those scientists to conveniently die in prison? That way- they won't be able to talk about the various torture techniques and interrogation tactics...

    I hope Americans feel good about taking their war on terror to foreign soil. For bringing the terrorists to Iraq- Chalabi, Allawi, Zarqawi, the Hakeems… How is our current situation going to secure America? How is a complete generation that is growing up in fear and chaos going to view Americans ten years from now? Does anyone ask that? After September 11, because of what a few fanatics did, Americans decided to become infected with a collective case of xenophobia… Yet after all Iraqis have been through under the occupation, we're expected to be tolerant and grateful. Why? Because we get more wheat in our diets?

    Terror isn't just worrying about a plane hitting a skyscraper…terrorism is being caught in traffic and hearing the crack of an AK-47 a few meters away because the National Guard want to let an American humvee or Iraqi official through. Terror is watching your house being raided and knowing that the silliest thing might get you dragged away to Abu Ghraib where soldiers can torture, beat and kill. Terror is that first moment after a series of machine-gun shots, when you lift your head frantically to make sure your loved ones are still in one piece. Terror is trying to pick the shards of glass resulting from a nearby explosion out of the living-room couch and trying not to imagine what would have happened if a person had been sitting there.

    The weapons never existed. It's like having a loved one sentenced to death for a crime they didn't commit- having your country burned and bombed beyond recognition, almost. Then, after two years of grieving for the lost people, and mourning the lost sovereignty, we're told we were innocent of harboring those weapons. We were never a threat to America...

    Congratulations Bush- we are a threat now.
     

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