Another 9-11 post, so if that bores you, skip it. For those who've heard the name along with just the usual soundbite descriptions, but don't really know much about him, thought that this TimeCanada article on Osama bin Laden is extremely well-written as well deeply illuminating on the man, his background, his beliefs...and his goal. The one thing that gives me comfort is the description of his current daily lifestyle: the big chill descending from the Taliban, forced to life on the hoof in a "Japanese pickup truck" (what, with all his money he couldn't get ahold of a decent SUV?) & never sleeping in the same place.
i find it odd and somewhat disturbing that the man triumphs his other attacks publicly, but this current attack, which should be considered his greatest triumph in his eyes, he refuses to accept responsibility for. the connectins to him are supposedly there..but this i find to be odd
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by methinks: i find it odd and somewhat disturbing that the man triumphs his other attacks publicly, but this current attack, which should be considered his greatest triumph in his eyes, he refuses to accept responsibility for. the connectins to him are supposedly there..but this i find to be odd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yes-doesn't really make sense does it?And i find it surprising/disheartening to see people as intelligent as you,Emetic,blindly accepting the propaganda as if it is proven fact!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote If by that you mean that I'm convinced bin Laden & his immediate braintrust are the perps of 9-11, I'm not; I await all relevant evidence forthcoming. Don't tell me what you think I think - I'm quite willing and capable of telling you that myself. One thing I am sure of: whether or not bL is our guy in this matter, he and the rest of his jihadin' Camel Jockey Circus have already dirtied their hands plenty in other similar matters in the past, and show all signs and intent of continuing their bloody ultra-fundie hijinks until/unless someone effectively and permanently modifies their behavior. For whatever grievances the greater (hmph)Arab world rightfully has with us, the main concern of the ultra-fundies have with us - the heathen, secular Western 'Satan' - is that we continue to exist, period. To them, this is not a political conflict to be negotiated nor a philosophical debate- it is a black and white, cut 'n dried matter of the eeeeevil West corrupting Arab culture and ultimately conquering their lands...and they are just the chosen ones to do 'holy battle' in order to wipe us out first. I mean, bin Laden et al. ended up in Afghanistan after being kicked out of Saudi Arabia - his home country - for agitating because they thought King Fahd's rule was too loose, lenient and impious(!) -what with their allowing women to drive & all that other scandalous, amoral stuff. He's a fucking whacko, no different in operation from our own home-grown white supremacist types, who twist the Christian Bible's words to suit their own purposes, and toward similar ends. So whether or not 9-11 can be pinned solely or partly on bL, as long as he lives, he & his crew remain rabid dogs who have already inflicted plenty of bites worldwide, and whose extermination can't come too soon. PS- That bL hasn't seen fit to take credit for 9-11 shouldn't be surprising or puzzling. It may turn out that he had no proximate involvement, i.e. didn't order the hit. But his current life's work of nurturing & propagating fundie terrorists - supporting them, training them, sending them off with a kiss and an AK-47 to meet the world - indicts him well enough to my satisfaction.
pure and simple emetic.. it was israel, hand in hand with your shadow government.. that ordered the hijackings.. purely to escalate a war in the middle east, and wipe out islam.. the only dissenting voices in the world to the ongoing zionist movement to have a world run by a zion government.. NWO i don't expect you'll believe me.. and i guess next thing they'll find more evidence pointing towards osama bin laden... and your nation will be whipped up into more anti-muslim feeling.. blablabla... i expect next they'll find a hand-written note from osama wishing them luck on their 'mission' and saying allah is with them...
btw.. i ain't an anti-semetic or whatever you wanna fling at me.... i'm just interested in the truth.. so i like to read the 'truth' from ALL sides, read between the li(n)es, and make up my own mind... like i said before.. it wouldn't be secret if you knew about it...
An epic! Here's some more writing for you and Pimp to label 'proparganda' Nursey. America, with its daunting economic, political and military power, its pervasive popular culture, and its instinct to spread the freewheeling, secularist ways of American life — even to those who may prefer to shun them — has an impact on people's lives to the farthest corners of the earth. Just how great this impact is, and how, in many places, it is resented, may be more than many Americans can grasp. If they consider their country's place at all, many Americans may see it in uncomplicated terms, as the "beacon of freedom" President Bush spoke of with moistened eyes this week. But the feelings of many of the peoples who live in America's shadow are frequently less sanguine, or at least deeply contradictory. Grievances run side by side, and often in the same person, with a consuming passion for things American. Outside American embassies, particularly in the poorer parts of the world, there is almost always a long, clamoring crowd of visa seekers, desperate for their chance at the American dream. In the same cities, and often enough outside the same embassies, other impassioned crowds will gather at the slimmest pretext to protest against America, and to shout for its downfall. In recent days, when the crowds have returned, it has been, invariably, to weep, and to mourn. Such paradoxes present themselves almost everywhere, but nowhere more starkly than in the Arab and wider Muslim worlds. There, bitter political grievances abound, among them: the United States' support of Israel; its troop presence in the "holy land" of the Arabian peninsula; its military encirclement and economic strangulation of Iraq; and its alliances with governments across the Middle East and Asia that are widely perceived as corrupt. But the complaints are often accompanied by an unquenchable appetite for Marlboro cigarettes and Levi's jeans and adoration, of course, of the two Michaels, Jackson and Jordan. These enthusiasms are inseparable from the deprivation that besets much of the world, and a yearning for the bounty of America. It is, however, not only the tangible things about America that excite. Freedom, to those without it, is irresistible, too. Among those who spend exhausting days in visa line-ups in Beijing, Cairo or Islamabad, it is this sense of America as a place where everyman can pursue his dreams that comes pouring through, as it has for the fettered of the world since America's beginnings. "America, free!" the visa-seekers say, even if they are the only two English words they have. But to be free, rich and powerful in a world that is mostly none of these things is, inevitably, to engender resentments. Freedom itself can be considered deeply disturbing, even threatening, in many of the world's poorer societies that are anchored to the old pillars of faith, tradition and submission. Much the same can be said for the flood of American popular culture. When the Taliban began their rule in Afghanistan in 1996 by hanging television sets from trees and outlawing music and films, they were at the extreme edge of an uneasiness that is widespread in traditional societies that have begun to feel inundated by Western, and particularly American, culture. Americans, with the richness of intermingling cultures, can find it difficult to grasp how vulnerable other societies can feel. This anxiety has found a ready focus in American rock music, and in Hollywood movies. But even with the Taliban's draconian restrictions on Western lifestyles and women — or, just as likely, because of them — the blockbuster movie "Titanic" became so popular that it spawned a fad in hairstyles among men wanting to look like Leonardo DiCaprio. Islamic terror groups have their own ideology, rooted in a deeply conservative reading — and, Islamic moderates say, a distortion — of the Koran, Islam's holy book. They reject American values like democracy, tolerance and respect for individual rights, then rouse their followers by arguing that the United States violates those principles in its support for Israel, and with the sanctions that stifle Iraq. Osama bin Laden, the Saudi militant based in Afghanistan, rails against American "falsehood" in claiming that principle drives its interaction with the world, even as he mocks the values he says America violates. No doubt, organizations like Mr. bin Laden's Al Qaeda group feed off broader resentments against America. Often, in discussions with Islamic militants, anger over Israel or Iraq or Bosnia spills over into a recounting of more personal experiences, sometimes trifling, sometimes not, in which encounters with America — time spent working in menial jobs or studying in the United States, or a brush with United States immigration authorities — stirred resentments that became a trigger for antagonism. But even in these cases, there is sometimes a lingering sense of kinship with another America, the America of unrequited yearnings. It is this duality, in part, that makes it possible for American reporters to work, more or less safely, in places like the Taliban-ruled parts of Afghanistan that, on their face, are profoundly hostile to America. During one cold night four years ago spent sheltering with a group of soldiers at a remote mountain checkpoint, the sight of a reporter's satellite telephone produced amazed whispers among the soldiers, and then, in English, a quiet request. "I have a brother in Detroit," a man said. "Would you mind if I call him?"
And another thing Pimp... If you are so against the influence of the media and think it is all 'propaganda'. Where do you glean your information to form your opinions? No don't tell me... Let me guess! It's your gangsta family with all them gangsta contacts right?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>PimpDaddy: .. israel... with your shadow government ..ordered the hijackings..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a beauty of a premise for Tom Clancy's next novel. Only time will tell how close either of us are to the truth in the 9-11 incident. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote Here's where you totally lose me, unless you spoke imprecisely. Besides the obvious aggregation in the Arab states, there are over a billion followers of Islam on the planet. Trying to wipe out any premier world religion - Islam, Christianity, Buddhism - is a fool's errand today, and one on which only a twisted mind would proceed on - not that of an organized, calculating shadow gov. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote I've detected no movement of sentiment in such a misplaced direction. Sure, we have pockets of rednecks and other assorted sub-genius types who bask in such discriminatory thoughts; they're nowhere near a critical mass. The collective opinion in my circles are, let's get the bastards responsible for this, not let's kill all Muslims. But don't worry, Pimp - if it does turn out you're right, I'll give you the satisfaction of an I-told-you-so. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote Well, I suppose photographs would be too much to hope for.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PinkorBrown69: And another thing Pimp... If you are so against the influence of the media and think it is all 'propaganda'. Where do you glean your information to form your opinions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i repeat... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PimpDaddy v2.01beta: i'm just interested in the truth.. so i like to read the 'truth' from ALL sides, read between the li(n)es, and make up my own mind...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and yes.. at first i was of the opinion that some shadowy nether-government had orchestrated these attacks... for some reason or another and i'm even sceptical of my own opinions at first.. as i have nothing to base them on... so i absorb the information from all sides.. not just our western media.. but the more i read.. the more i'm being convinced.... by the way.. where did you copy/paste that nice epic from
Passing personal ponderance: Whither religion? Is it the world's savior ....or ultimate doom? Could be argued either way. Personally, I tend toward the latter.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emetic: That's a beauty of a premise for Tom Clancy's next novel. Only time will tell how close either of us are to the truth in the 9-11 incident.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> that's the beauty of fiction.. they write books, make films etc.. about conspiracies.. and when people suspect one... people will just say.. "You've been watching too many movies" <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote the collective opinions in most non-american circles is that rednecks and other assorted sub-genius types are the majority in the US.... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote hmmph... hope we survive so i get the satisfaction.... then again.. it's one of these things that IF i'm right... i'll never get the satisfaction of an i told you so... but if a one world government starts up, and god forbid, even more draconian measures are proposed to track the movements of it's population (anti-terrorist measures of course) then can i have the satisfaction of an I-Told-You-So ???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emetic: Passing personal ponderance: Whither religion? Is it the world's savior ....or ultimate doom?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> it's been a ponderance of mine long before this happened... it's too deep to go into here.. but i'm of the opinion that religion was a good way to make the masses follow a moral path when civilisation was young and people were more superstitious and believing... but it's the adherance of those beliefs 1,2 or 6 thousand years later, and strictly following things written that long ago when the world was different thats fucked-up.... i prefer to follow my own god.. and call him my conscience
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emetic: If by that you mean that I'm convinced bin Laden & his immediate braintrust are the perps of 9-11, I'm not; I await all relevant evidence forthcoming. Don't tell me what you think I think - I'm quite willing and capable of telling you that myself. ......................................... PS- That bL hasn't seen fit to take credit for 9-11 shouldn't be surprising or puzzling. It may turn out that he had no proximate involvement, i.e. didn't order the hit. But his current life's work of nurturing & propagating fundie terrorists - supporting them, training them, sending them off with a kiss and an AK-47 to meet the world - indicts him well enough to my satisfaction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So...correct me if i'm wrong here,but you say you are "NOT CONVINCED" of his involvement,but you are"SATISFIED" of his involvement............which is it??!?
thanks for the link fugly... (12) The only way we could save any dignity and respect in the world be to hit back so hard as to make teeth rattle around the world. A good approach would be to have NSA fabricate intercepts proving that Libya was responsible, mobilize nationally, invade, and make Libya permanently a US colony. Most Arab countries are militarily helpless, and that is the only kind our forces could defeat. Doing this, doing anything other than whimpering, would require that ancient military virtue known as "balls." Does Katie Couric have them? yes... fabricate evidence very, very easily done....
i thought it would be intelligently deduced that because of my post it would seem obvious that i was NOT sure of bin laden's involvement. guess i needed to spell it out. and i agree with the person who said the media is being manipulative and inciting the xenophobia necessary for the US to go to war with masses support.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by methinks: i thought it would be intelligently deduced that because of my post it would seem obvious that i was NOT sure of bin laden's involvement. guess i needed to spell it out. and i agree with the person who said the media is being manipulative and inciting the xenophobia necessary for the US to go to war with masses support.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> funnily enough.. most of us intelligently deduced that already
