I understand that Iran is persueing Nuclear weapons ambition

But what do I know probably some false rumor being spread by the war mongering Bush administration. We will watch the video 5 years from now of Spotted Al Gore screaming "He played on our fears!" all red faced with veins popping out of his neck.

If you’re scared of the implications in voting on this issue actually taking a position then don't vote.

 

Just because Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons programme (I believe), doesn't mean the best way to combat that is to blow the living fucking shit out of them.

One does not logically follow from the other (though it may Joeslogically follow ...) :roll:

 

Thats uncanny how you read my brain. I never said we should blow the fucking shit out of them yet I was considering the option. :shock:

 

Of course, we can always just sit back and watch them blow the shit out of each other, but what would be the repercussion of that? There is no middle ground here.

 

No, but once they get the capability you think they arent going to start blowing shit out of other groups? Those assholes are crazy enough to use it.

So do you wait, till they have them, or do you go in beforehand and take em out? You cant wait. You go from losing 2000 troops(possibly) to losing 50,000. Cause when the tanks are rolling to tehran, you think they wont nuke their own country?

 

Such ironic timing for that post.

It was 61 years ago today

 

If America created a decent espionage service, instead of the heavy-handed clod-hoppers they have at the moment, any number of "other options" might present themselves. Most with few, if any, casualties.

 

Yes, I agree. Some secrecy could resolve many issues that not only threaten American interest, but humanitarian interest world wide.

 

We need good espionage problem is we have a two party system one a patriotic party and another party with a vested interest in intelligence failure. They continuously leak vital intelligence information to the enemy via there media proxy. Hoping to give terrorism the edge it needs so they can then play Monday night qtrback with the outcome.

 

Quoth Grapes

If USA involves itself in state vs state terrorist acts whats to stop Iran from doing the same ? They could probably do a lot of damage before all the shit was shat. Could just give up the occupation in Iraq. When US generals speak of withdrawing, the Iran situation could well be on their minds. If you are NOT in Iraq the possibilities for action in Iran becomes much broader.

When Iraq got a reactor running in the 70s , Israel attacked and destroyed it.
In blatant disregard of national borders and sovereignity ofcourse, but quite undersatandable all the same.

Quoth Joe

You guys seriously believe you can know shit about your countrys present intel and sabotage capabilities during this ongoing conflict ?!? With the kind of sources you quote here I can well believe that you do believe that. Do you believe this belief should make me believe the rest of the stuff ? I dont believe so ! Belief should maybe be personal and free, but belief is really dangerous stuff. It leads to action. Wrong belief leads to wrong action. We do whats right, we see whats left. Haha pun Hah. Diplomacy is a cousin to intel. Those other billions on the planet might know shit about their neighbours and special fields of interest. It does not matter if you walk strongly, as long as your stick is soft.

 

Both sides leak intelligence to damage the other parties credibility, but it's never anything lasting that truly damages the nation. How many confidential reports do you think Karl Rove has strategically released to benefit GW? And no Republican would have ever compromised his own morals to get at Clinton. That would be insane.

They're all politicians Joe. The party they run for might be different, but in the end they all lie and mislead people to get the results that they want. You're an idiot if you think the Republicans are an honest and upstanding group of people.

 

I could not honestly paint each group with the same broad brush and be accurate but generally speaking hell yeah.

Yeah Xerx we actually have done a lot behind the scenes such as the recent enriched uranium seizure in Poland was it? There actually have been several.

I got a clue why don't we send Joe Wilson over to Africa to see if Iran have been trying to buy recently mined uranium? I'm sure he can bring us back some good intel.

Dio just look at it from this perspective who gets to capitalize on terrorism plots foiled and who gets to capitalize on terrorism succeeding?

 

No one. Absolutely no one. You think people are really going to vote for anyone currently in office if terrorism succeeds? Politicians care about themselves, not the party. No one would benefit from terrorism succeeding, that's where you conspiracy theory falls apart.

 

Everyonce in a while you need to clean house. Could you imagine a 70% or better turn over in the legislative branch? How refreshing that would be. You walk a fine line in office screwup and yer outa there! problem is its never happend afaik.

 

A sitting government will allways be held responsible for actions abroad and at home. The tactics of position and opposition are clear on this. There are allso the question of slightly diverging agendas among right and left. Strategies that bequeathes allies within differning political milieues in states and industries. It is when these different agents of their own agenda act in their self-interest, that one gets these divides. ( Methinks ). Positioning and strategic alliances. Both Israel and Saudi-arabia are your allies in the region.

 

Yeah they are oppertunistic bastards arn't they. I understand the principal. But all the same to me it stinks. I guess its all about perspective to me my shit don't stink but theirs really makes me gag.

 

An upcoming problem, ( as we burn the oil like there is no tomorrow ), is the need for nuclear technology in dozens of new states with exploding populations. As such Irans prorgamme is just a trailer to the real movie.

I inderstand that companies as GE and BP are on the move, and there is some hope there. Only problem is their scope, wich holds to the same 19 century standards of old mother nature as an ever renewable gift from our phallic diety. i Dont blame them to much though. Their focus has been more imediate, and it is considered a public duty to supply increasing energy to ever-expanding markets. Worrying math. Toyotas overhaul of major us car manufacurers speaks of the strategies of SUVs vs the strategies of Hybrids. The one take only personal consumer desires into account. The other has a broader scope.

 

It behooves them to research alternatives now with their profits if only for self preservation reasons. Thing is I think there is a whole lot of junk science out there and special interest groups being harnessed by the powers that be. If current market prices for crude were to be sustained then all of a sudden Shale oil becomes profitable plus there is a lot more oil available in Alaska personally I think we could become self sufficient. In other words I don’t but all the hoopla about how there is just a limited supply and the peak oil theory.

 

The major players buy it. You know there is a limited supply dont you ? We have spent about 10% off total, but that is the ten most available %. The numbers for exploitable oil are at about 50% down. They dont find that much more of that.

If hybrids use 50% of the fuel, why cant you see what a gift hore that is. It means peace and prosperity and growth both in rich and poor countries. Only not if 400 horsepowers and more is legal. Cant there be ANY limits to personal consume. None ?

 

Yeah but other means of extracting oil for instance shale have huge potential. As soon as the price gets high enough to beccome feesable. Also the problem with 50 percent more effecient cars is it is a short term fix every year there is prolly 5% more on the road and I bet that is a conservative estimate. 10 years 5% compounded = what? Besided they still have not started Selling the new Camaro yet damn it so hold up a little with the less horse power idea.