I’ve noticed something recently about the current Gulf War. Something that has reinforced some of my feelings towards the current conflict. Growing up and learning about past wars was always a clean-cut experience. Opposing viewpoints at the time and the entire question of “who was right?” never existed. Whatever was taught in the schools was ‘the way it was’ - and there was never any question as to reasons, motives, or differences in opinion. Now that I’m an adult, and experiencing history in the making, it’s quite a different experience. For one, the Internet has brought me into contact with friends from around the entire globe. Real, living, breathing people whom I never would have the opportunity to meet without current technology. People with varying opinions. People with different lifestyles. Some of these people I may sadly never get to meet in person, and then there’s this hot bitch in WV whose every cavity I plan to violate… At any rate, it allows someone to go beyond the information barrier they are subjected to and discuss with other people what their media is reporting to them. It opens a gateway of knowledge that otherwise would be inaccessible. I’ve met people that agree with my viewpoints, but it doesn’t mean that I have to like them. I’ve met people whose opinions and feelings are different than mine - doesn’t mean I have to dislike them, either. The mere fact that I have the ability to meet these people at all is a testament alone to how truly fortunate I am. Some people may never know this luxury. It is for this reason that I am proud to live where I do. The idea that you can live in a country and have the right to stand up and protest that you do not approve of a situation is wonderful. Everyone should have this right. The nation we are invading does not have it. The fact that an American can bypass the media and download a video clip of American P.O.W. torture - when it has been banned in the US - and witness the horrors that occur in war is a privilege. Realizing that there is a nation of people that face the same threat of torture from it’s government everyday as shown to our troops once reinforces my appreciation for my way of life - and the people that have fought for it in the past… and for the people that fight for it now. For that, I am grateful. I was amazed that during the Oscars, someone would actually use their soapbox to protest the war and our president. If this same stunt were pulled in Iraq, not only would he be killed, but most likely his relatives and offspring would suffer the same fate. What this person doesn‘t realize is that he takes for granted what many people will never enjoy. (But hey, I guess you get the bad with the good, like when Robert Opal streaked across stage completely naked during the ’74 Academy Awards.) If one result of our invasion of Iraq is providing the Iraqi citizens with the right to openly express their opinions in this manner, shouldn’t the protestors support our actions? Speaking of soapboxes, I suppose I should get off of mine and let the flaming begin. With that in mind, I guess what I’m really trying to say is - fuck all y’all hata’s.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote Whoa! Lomo with the political paradoxes! You go on wit yo bad self.
Well, that was pretty moving Lomo...it moved the contents of my stomach a few times.. Having annihilated the tyrant (Biff! Bang!), erased the evil tentacles of his power (Crash! Wallop! Zap!), Mr Bush held out for Iraq's hard-pressed and soon to be bombed people a paradisial future in the image of the American ideal. The "coalition" – note the illusion of a multi-state alliance that will comprise, at most, a preponderance of American troops, some Britons and a few Australians – will deliver, Mr Bush promised, "the food and medicine you need". It will "tear down the apparatus of terror" and help to create an Iraq that is "prosperous and free". The Bush vision of "free" Iraq incorporates the all-American values prevalent at the turn of the 21st century. Again, there is that "safety", much prosperity and a whole lot of freedom, as defined by Americans for America, which includes – jaded Iraqis might note with a bitter smile – "no more wars of aggression against your neighbours". There is not the slightest hint in the Bush lexicon of a world that might not be transformed into an ideal, Disneyfied America, no recognition that prosperity and American-style freedom might not be the first, or even most precious, conditions desired by Iraqis from their unsought "war of liberation". There is none of the cultural sensitivity at which Bill Clinton excelled, and no room for a reborn Iraq – as Iraq. Just the flat canvas of an American future, with Bluebeard (sorry, "tyrant Saddam") magicked out of his castle and the snow-capped mountains and the sunlit green fields beyond. http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/mary_dejevsky/story.jsp?story=388526
Bill Clinton's "Cultural Sensitivity" is merely his ability to buckle and appease any threat that arises. His ability to provide both the Chinese and the North Koreans with nuclear technology and the ability to make nuclear weapons under the guise of building "power plants."
I'm really not interested in arguing Clinton versus 'Smirk' and would have removed the line from the excerpt i posted if i knew it would detract from the main issue here.
With regard to your 1st post Nursey, I'd bet most Iraqis would give their right arm, if they still possess it for such a vision of freedom. Right now, despite having the second or third greatest oil reserves in the world, they are a third world country. More than half the Iraqi people have no access to running water, 60% of Iraqis rely on western food aid to survive an Iraq has a greater infant mortality rate than the Republic of Congo. With all the oil Iraq should have an economy as strong as most European countries, but Hussein and his regime put paid to that. Plus in the US do political opponents and their entire families get executed for daring to question a despot? Do attrocities like Halabjah take place? You need to get your stupid fucking head out of your arse, don't come on here preaching 'Stop the war' or 'Not in my name' to me, because of some tenious link you have with the place. Why not ask the true Iraqi exiles what they think? The people who have suffered torure and separation from their families for trying to make a difference. These people have been very conspicuous in their absence from the anti-war demo's. The most disgusting thing the anti-war movement is doing is appropriating the voices of the Iraqi people (your making the same suppositions). While coalition troops are been welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people. Go fucking figure
Bush is completely ignoring U.S. homeland problems by focusing on this Iraqi shit. He should send more welfare niggers to the frontlines to die. Strap them with explosives and drop them from planes over Baghdad and we'd get rid of two vices in one shot. After Iraq, drop some illegal alien spics over france for good measure. no more handouts!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nursey: I'm really not interested in arguing Clinton versus 'Smirk' and would have removed the line from the excerpt i posted if i knew it would detract from the main issue here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would have removed it as well. It flushed any shred of sense that the author accidentally stumbled upon straight down the toilet. It's interesting to note that every link I've seen you post always leads to a liberal extremist website, most of them being in the USA. I'd positively love for you to visit a site with an opposing viewpoint... Go ahead, exercise your freedom and check it out... "There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible." -Iraqi torture witness' sworn statement to INDICT And we're the "bad guys" here? We're the great evil that has our nose where it doesn't belong? I wonder, would an Iraqi about to be dropped into the plastic shredder feel the same way? Would he want us to leave his country so that life can continue the way it is now? How can people so ignorant about the joys of living elsewhere possibly cling to the hope that their world shouldn't change? Another interesting thing to know that isn't common knowledge: When Saddam promises to follow the Geneva Convention's guidelines for the treatment of POW's - and blatantly disregards - do we follow suit? No. Instead, if we've got Iraqi POW's in custody that need medical attention, we treat them just like our own soldiers, and if an Iraqi is wounded worse than an American - they get medical attention first.
this isn't a war with any legal basis.. the only country defending itself is iraq.. so therefore don't the american POW's have the same geneva convention rights as the taliban prisoners held at guantamano bay... ie none... what place do international laws and conventions have anyway now that the US/UK have ridden roughshod over the UN
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lomo's Haus of Audio-Video Bliss: [ "There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible." -Iraqi torture witness' sworn statement to INDICT <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sounds just like the over the top bullshit sworn statement and court appearance of the 'innocent young Kuwaiti girl' who breaking down in tears in court in front of television cameras spoke of her horror as she watched 'Iraqi soldiers taking babies out of incubators and throwing them on the floor'...the story was later proved to be total fabrication and the 'innocent girl' turned out to be a member of the Kuwaiti royal family! But this was months after gulf war 1 officially ended...and the gullible masses have been goaded into another media sheep pen by then... In response to theonlyreallydimboy Dear oh dear...you should really make a *little more effort* to do some research and at least attempt to get your facts straight rather than complacently gobbling up all the shit that spills out of the western media (propaganda machine) then arrogantly spouting your misinformation as fact... Pentagon started the weekend claiming that the entire Iraqi 51st Division had surrendered. Some hours later the reports quoted "massive numbers of soldiers surrendering", then a more precise "8,000 soldiers from the Iraqi 51st Division" and finally on Sunday afternoon, Richard Myers, US Chief of Staff, admitted that only 400 Iraqi prisoners of war had been taken. The Pentagon stated that Iraqi Information Ministry claims that a group of US soldiers had been taken were lies, now, after they have been shown on television, Rumsfeld is forced to do an about turn and admit that indeed, a group of five soldiers, including one woman, have been taken alive. Al Jazeera claims that a further four US soldiers were killed in combat. The fact that the Pentagon admits that the Iraqi Information Ministry claims were true also means that the Pentagon admits that it was telling lies. Rumsfeld adds the quality of barefaced liar to his growing list of negative attributes: terrorist, murderer and war criminal." "The United States of America, in attacking Iraq outside the auspices of the UNO, is committing an illegal act of war. George Bush is committing war crimes. He may not be eligible for prosecution at the ICC, because the USA has not ratified the act recognizing the tribunal, but Tony Blair and those who support this illegal act are, and will be taken to this court accordingly." <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by theonlylivingboy: With regard to your 1st post Nursey, I'd bet most Iraqis would give their right arm, if they still possess it for such a vision of freedom.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In fact...i bet quite a lot of Iraqis aren't even born with arms these days thanks to the depleted uranium showered down upon their country by America and Britain... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote As a matter of fact, Saddam, unlike the Iraqi royal family (who actually did squander the countries wealth)who the CIA helped him to overthrow in the mid sixties, did make huge improvements to Iraq by putting money back into the country and its people...the Ba'ath party are socialists, not communists as you wrongly stated. "Before the Gulf War, Iraqi living standards were fast approaching that of southern Europe, featuring free education (to university level and good grants offered to study abroad), ample electricity, modern farming, a large middle class and, according to the World Health Organization, access to health care for 93 percent of the population. A once proud and prospering nation fell apart as 525,000 Iraqis died in wars since 1980, including 375,000 in an 8-year Iraq-Iran conflict in which the U.S. sold arms and munitions to both sides." <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote Well in the US they execute retards and then go on to make the person responsible for making that decision (who presided over more executions as governor of Texas than any governor since capital punishment was legalized.) in charge of the world's number one superpower. "We are talking now about a guy who as a kid put firecrackers in frogs and threw them into the air to watch them explode. He cracked himself up in an interview with Talk magazine by mocking a woman on death row whose cries for mercy he scorned, screwing up his face and saying, "Please don't kill me!" in an impersonation of the deceased." <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote "In 1983, Rumsfeld, then chairman of G.D. Searle, a worldwide pharmaceutical firm, presented Saddam Hussein with a pair of golden cowboy spurs as a token of appreciation from Ronald Reagan. After the U.S. State Department issued an alert in 1984 claiming Iraq's use of chemical weapons, Rumsfeld returned to Baghdad. Though he arrived the same day (March 5, 1984) that UN scientists confirmed their use against Iran, he lodged neither a formal nor an informal complaint. Nor did the Brits, the Israelis or any nation now supporting war in Iraq. According to an article published years later in Covert Action Quarterly, the U.S. Department of Agriculture provided crucial components for those weapons. Receipts can be found on the Internet from U.S. businesses that sold Iraq other key components, financed with generous loans backed by the U.S." The west said nothing about Halabjah until they needed to stir up public feeling against Iraq for 'Gulf war 1'...long after the atrocity (which although it's entirely possible was committed by Iraq, still hasn't been proven to have been committed by Iraq as Turkey and Iran who also share borders with the region inhabited by the Kurds were also fighting with the Kurds.. the US military even doubted Iraq was the likely culprit, but this information was conveniently discounted when it was time for the saintly west to cynically exploit the suffering of innocents to manipulate public opinion into supporting 'Gulf war 1' of the stories were slanted against Iraq," which by itself is suspicious. In addition, some of the stories were simply "phony," such as the report that 80,000 to 100,000 Kurds were gassed to death by Iraq. "You can't kill that many people using gas, in a concentrated period, in terrain such as exists in northern Iraq." <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote You need to stop arrogantly mouthing off nonsense and misinformation as if you have a fucking clue! Anyone that blindly accepts the oh-so-unbiased world law breaking, perpetrators of agression's version of events as fact needs to get their 'stupid fucking head out their arse'. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote Quite like the idea of dictating what people can and cannot say then, do you? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote I'm half Iraqi and was brought up for the first three years of my life (apparently the most formative period of your life) in Iraq by my Iraqi family while both my parents worked. I think that makes me better qualified to speak on behalf of Iraq than you, however 'tenuous' you might consider that connection. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote Some are power hungry and corrupt...something that doesn't bother the US when selecting candidates to help into power: "There are numerous opposition groups outside Iraq, many of them based in London. Some are almost as hostile towards each other as they are towards Saddam Hussein. Many have little or no support inside Iraq and are widely regarded as tools of American foreign policy. Most of their leaders have not lived in Iraq for many years and some have been disparagingly described as "Rolex revolutionaries". There are also about 1,500 former Iraqi military officers in exile who could contribute to the overthrow of Saddam, but it is debatable how many of them left Iraq for political reasons. Many, if not all, of these defecting officers are likely to have been involved at some time in carrying out atrocities on behalf of the regime." "The conference gathered a group of reactionary Iraqi opposition which did not represent the great majority of the Iraqi people; in fact, their enmity towards the interests of the people of Iraq is evident. The selected participants were elements of the Hashemite clan, whose anti-people regime had been toppled over half a century ago, reactionary groups organised in the 'Iraqi National Congress' that are official mercenaries of the CIA, former military commanders of the Ba'ath regime who have killed and plundered, leaders of the nationalist Kurdish parties whose 11 year rule has offered the people nothing but naked mafia-clannish war, segregation and regional cleansing, oppression and the murder of women, political opponents and the imposition of the harshest poverty and destitution on the working people of Kurdistan and finally Islamic groups backed by the Islamic Republic of Iran who dream of turning Iraq into an Islamic Republic and imposing veiling and stoning." "PNAC has recently given birth to a new group, The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in order to formulate a plan to "educate" the American populace about the need for war in Iraq. CLI has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to support the Iraqi National Congress and the Iraqi heir presumptive, Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court in 1992 to 22 years in prison for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which he founded in 1977. Chalabi has not set foot in Iraq since 1956, but his Enron-like business credentials apparently make him a good match for the Bush administration's plans." http://www.al-bab.com/arab/countries/iraq/opposition.htm http://www.wpiran.org/PR%20On%20the%20Iraqi%20Opposition%20Conference%20in%20London.htm ...and some are, misguidedly under the impression that George (retard-killer) Bush and 'Tory' Blair are actually going to all this effort, expense, military sacrifice and risking their political careers for ...ahem...their benefit. Unfortunately, the west couldn't give a shit about aggrieved minority groups suffering at the hands of the tyrants they install to run their puppet govts.Why would they spend billions to provide freedom and democracy for iraqis when their own economies are in shit - why dont they do that for poor little countries that have no oil? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote:</font><HR>The people who have suffered torure and separation from their families for trying to make a difference. These people have been very conspicuous in their absence from the anti-war demo's. The most disgusting thing the anti-war movement is doing is appropriating the voices of the Iraqi people (your making the same suppositions). While coalition troops are been welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people. Go fucking figure<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, unlike during the first gulf war, a huge number of Iraqis who dislike or have suffered at the hands of the Ba'athist regime have come out and spoken against the unlawful agression being waged on Iraq. And that's complete fucking bullshit propaganda you're regurgitating about 'coalition' troops being welcomed with open arms...unless you're referring to the ones that were doing it to lure troops into an ambush... "And at this point, I don't think ignorance is an excuse. So many atrocities have been carried out by the U.S. shadow government undercover, such as the murderous Nicaraguan Contras, who were US funded and trained, but it was hidden. But now the US is openly attacking another country that has not attacked us. And the administration is trying to imply a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda, on the assumption that Al Qaeda was the perpetrator of September 11, but it is not relying on that to make its case. The case is one of the most lame pretexts to come along in a while. It's all about what Saddam Hussein ever could do if he ever does get weapons of mass destruction. It's not even a very good lie, and those who are going along with it, are merely acquiescing, refusing to think for themselves, refusing to stand up for what is right."
Are these the same prisoners that were granted their religious freedom? The same ones that were given a towel on which to kneel and pray on?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nursey: ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...will read and reply later. Last post directed at Pimp...
yes these are the same prisoners that were sent to egypt to be tortured because it contravenes US law
i dont know if anyone pointed this out yet as i did not read all of the posts (some of the left wing liberal droning makes me numb) but something i think is odd is that the muslim communities are screaming support for saddam when he has killed more muslims than any other person. shouldnt the muslims be in support of the coalition forces moving against saddam and his regime.? another thing that strikes me as odd is how this war in saddam and his regime is being called a war on iraq despite the bombs and missiles that have been carefully guided to prevent civilian casualities. despite the fact that electricity and water have not been targets so iraqi people can go about their daily chores.
Anyone who touts a Rush Limbaugh website obviously doesn't have a fucking clue but Lomo does deserve extra points for knowing the name of the guy who streaked the Oscars.
Anyone who oposes the US Government is an obvious terrorist, and that includes protesters and vegitarians. I hope you get rectal colon cancer and die shity deaths you communist nazi scum fuckholes. Love, MrTim
Gimp & Nursery you keep reading your left wing extremist websites then cutting and pasting and quoting various obscure commentators. Believe all that shit if you must. To make it even simpler, this war is about good vs evil. Before it started I myself didn't have much enthusiasm for it, I coudn't quite figure out if it was really required, that said I never had any doubt it was a just cause. The thing that winds me up now, is the state of the people opposing the war, communists, extreme liberals, muslim extremists an so on, people who for various reasons despise our way of life. Now if you look long and hard enough at more an more extreme and obscure websites you can try to negate every good point put forward here, I don't have that 'luxury' of being able to spend hours trawling through this shit to give myself misguided opinions (shouldn't you be job seeking Gimp? I'm paying my taxes to keep worthless Pancrack fuckers like you in internet access)but why don't you do somethin really worthwhile. If your so touched by the plight of YOUR people Nursey why don't you fuck off back their, be a freedom fighter, a human shield? or then again you can just wave a soggy placard in some city centre evey couple of weeks, or spout shit on a forum where no fucker really cares. POWER TO THE PEOPLE heh? You go girl!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="verdana">quote So far all your other arguments have been ok, i dont happen to agree with you but i'm always willing to listen to other peoples opinion and views and i believe everyone has a right to their views without fear of abuse or repercussion which is why i like to live in a democracy. Yet this statement is utterly ridicules and shows everyone who reads your post what sort of man you really are..if you can't get someone to change their views to the same as your own you will abuse them. Shall we start calling you Saddam?
