It's pride. Taking 'meds' is an admission of weakness. To submit to that kind of crutch is to say that he can't handle it himself. My friend thinks he's invincible. The last thing he's ever going to do is succumb to a weakness. He'd rather kill himself trying to do it himself. He does that with everything. Call it stupid but that's just the way he is. Even if some medication worked, he would not have conquered it himself. There's honer in the struggle, if that makes any sense. My friend is very stubborn.
Lets see if I understand..... My house is on fire, and the only honorable way out is to save myself. Only a weak person would accept the ladder that the fireman offer. A strong person would rather burn to death in a house fire than risk the embarrassment of actually accepting the fireman's offer of help. That about sums it up, right?
That's another reason why Chinese medicine is good...because you are taking responsibility for your own health. And before anyone starts scoffing, i actually knew an alcoholic (who could drink a large bottle of vodka a day no problem) who i persuaded to take acupuncture and Chinese herbs. This was after his dentist had told him his front tooth was going to fall out due to the state of his gums. Being warned he was going to lose his plum job didn't quite get through to him the way his vanity did. The Chinese doctor told him his (enlarged) liver was indeed responsible for the state of his gums but that could help him. My friend took about 3 or 4 months worth of weekly acupuncture followed by monthly visits for about a year. To my amazement (even though i definately believe in Chinese medicine) he stopped drinking completely and the tooth which his dentist had assured him couldn't be saved still hasn't fallen out over two years later. He still doesn't drink. The most important thing with any alternative medicine is to make sure you find a reputable practitioner. http://www.dhmh.state.md.us/bacc/
I don't know how you can equate willpower and personal choice with a house fire but ok. I'll bite. It's ok that this guy sets his house on fire every day? Thankfully there are systems in place so that he doesn't have to accept personal responsibility for his actions? He should just call 911 and then sit there like a pussy until help arrives? Only a professional is qualified to throw water on a fire? Man, I sure hope you never set your house on fire. I don't have a lot of respect for people who take anti-depressants so quickly. I'm not trying to diss your meds or anything, but doesn't it bother you that people are so quick to take medication without even trying to solve something themselves? When someone is trying to help themselves, and another person's only advice is to admit defeat and submit to chemical treatment, I don't know. I think that If my friend ever reads this he's probably going to find that pretty insulting. I don't think he's that far gone yet is all.
I think barry was using that example facetiously. I think the best thing to do is just be there for him. Maybe one day he will let you in on what's causing him to do this. Maybe he wont. If he isnt hurting anyone but himself I dont think there is a whole lot you can do. I know it sucks to watch someone tear themselves up like that, but there really isnt a lot you can do. Plus if you hound him about it, he will probably quit being your friend. Nobody wants to hear how bad they are screwing up all the time.
and isn't it even worse when they do take meds, with success, and start feeling great and like they are getting a handle on things and then those meds are pulled from the shelf sometimes months later because they are killing people and destroying their organs?
Or the the patient develops a tolerance for the meds and they end up smoking meth out of an old mountain dew bottle in the back of an empty train car wearing a rocky horror picture show costume.
You seem to retrieve that memory quite vividly. : ....but anyway.. As you've already heard how to deal with this medically, here's some basic social/personal tips I have learnt from looking after alchy friends etc. Always use tact in your conversations and never look down at him ie don't speak in a condescending (patronizing) way. It winds them up more if it seems you are nagging, tone and delivery are important. Keep tabs on how many he drinks and then politely stop him if he reaches for say, the 10th or 12th, thats probably enough and then start reducing this whenever possbile over weeks( as mentioned 'cutback' method) Deffinately stop him from the very bad cocktails of beer+spirits or anything like that. Work backwards, replacing all strong drinks with beers, and then with light beers etc. If he gets uptight that you're stopping him, dont say to him that he's had enough, say something positive, tell him you dont like to see him drink too much and he should save some for tomorrow. Do not tell him that 'what he's doing is bad for you or anyone around him' because that can lead to more dispair, its horrible when you feel something is your fault and it might make it worse. Change the subject afterwards, comedy is always good and having a bit of play-fight, if he can put up with it. If not, manly men don't like too much emotion or physical contact but the classic shoulder grab is good to show that you acknowledge him. Try to keep him busy whenever possible, so that he doesnt have time to drink. ..If theres not much of that list you can do, it might be worth it to show him a stark reality check, take pictures of anything he does while drunk (puke, fight, make a mess, insult women everything), write on the picture somewhere what it was that was being captured at that moment, then put it on the fridge where he gets the beers from. Next after that is a group intervention. After that again, it getting limited to meds and meetings :-\
You think you're cool huh? We'll see how cool you are smoking your doobies, living in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!! Sorry. Farley flashbacks......
Klonopin is a benzodiazepine and could possibly used for a taper however, cholorodiazepoxide (librium) and diazepam (valium) are preferred because of their longer half lives requiring less frequent dosing. Additionally, putting someone on Klonopin long term will likely just add one more addiction. It is used to detox people. Outpatient detox can be done if the symptoms are mild to moderate with appropriate guidance by a physician. Severe symptoms or complicating issues require inpatient detox as severe DTs can be fatal in pretty high numbers. Naltrexone and alcamprosate can reduce cravings for alcohol and make quitting easier but aren't necessary like the Benzodiazepine taper (starting at a higher dose and tapering off to a low dose before discontinuing) to prevent possible death and ease withdrawal symptoms. ucicare you really should stop trying to give medical advice and stick with psychology you have no training in it and you usually screw it up. To make it worse you always state it like you are absolutely sure of what you are talking about.
(librium) and diazepam (valium) are also preferred not only because of the longer half life and longer dosing but also because they wear off less abruptly. Here is a link to an article by a reputable journal: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040315/1443.html
Dan... I'm not trying to insult you here, but I'll give you a bit of advice. If you really are sincere, wish for people to read your posts, and draw some sort of knowledge or advice from them... Stop being so fucking condescending. Consider it.
I am not trying to be condesceinding. It is just that some of the shit is so wrong and it takes energy to be polite to people that spout off bullshit. I am trying to relax and have fun when I comer here. I am not willing to expend energy to be what I am when I am working. I am trying to offer free medical advice to those who may truly need it (or at least point them in the right direction). Really, I shouldn't be offering any advice at all but it is contrary to my character. If someone legitamately has a problem they are worried about I am trying to allay their fears if possible or point them in the right direction. I may stop it is really pretty stupid to offer an educated opinion to those who neither recognize nor appreciate it especially when it could get potentially legally complicated. Ucicare is really a parasite in my opinion. He really seems to be seeking a justification for his existence outside of psychology. If he is to exist on his own merits they should be within his field of study. Otherwise he is like a snakeoil salesmen just offering BS opinions on things he knows nothing about. This place isn't even that entertaining anymore.
I've tried that already, there is no chance of him ceasing any time soon, best to ignore anything he has to say and google it, its what I do, you tend to get the information you actually need instead of the 90% bollocks that we have to put up with and you'll find reading it doesnt give you the feeling that you're a piece of shit. eh?
Ed - whenever I need information on anything medically related, I know where to research it - I certainly don't post many of my questions here. I do, however, anticipate certain responses with a few questions, and let the forum members field them, knowing that between the plethora of crap that is posted, there might be a nugget of truth or honest opinion sparsed between logs. I appreciate you coming to my defense on this, and agree with most of your post, but at the same time... (dare I say it) - I think Dan might have something to offer this forum. Honestly, I'll rag on him in every other post for being the miserable, condescending shitbag that he is most of the time, but every once in a while, he means to contribute something important or worthwhile, and it's probably lost because most Fugly regulars might not even bother reading his posts. Dan - You may find that you'll gain the respect of your peers (and this goes beyond the Internet facade), if you cease to insult the credibility of others. Barry may be a Psychiatrist, but recall from your training - he had to go through the same rotations that you just recently completed. Just because someone has committed to a single profession also does not condemn them to that knowledge alone. I'll not even touch upon the incredible power the mind has over the body (health included), as I don't think you've studied it, but I will say this: If you want to maintain a "professional" stature, you should act a bit more professional, both on the job and off. Again, I'm not trying to come off as condescending. Just remember - your true friends are the ones that are most honest with you. Not that I want to hang out with you on weekends and barbecue or anything... Just to clarify. ;D
