DYSFUNCTIONAL COUNTRY, DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY

[Nursey]

Let me hear your views, assholish and otherwise on this article...

It seems to me that Americans for at least the past seven years have been stricken with a collective trance such as I have never witnessed in this country in my lifetime. Psychologist, Paul Levy, in his superb article Spiritually Informed Political Activism speaks to the necessity of waking up from the spell and speaking the truth about the criminal insanity that is running our nation and our world. He takes this "waking up" many steps further by the end of his article, but for now, I'd like to address the questions: "Why such seemingly impenetrable denial in the American psyche these days? Why are some people almost incapable of awakening?"

On the one hand we can argue that the economic system is arranged in such a manner that people are required to work two or more jobs in order to survive and are overwhelmed with work, family, and keeping their heads above water. In which case, who has time to read alternative media, research current events, or even read a book? We can also attribute the societal stupor to the remarkable job of dumbing-down that American, so-called, education has done in the past two decades so that the current generation can barely read, let alone, concentrate long enough to engage with even the most basic works on current issues.

But what if there were something even more fundamental and more human at the root of the collective coma that inflicts American society? What if "my government" in some part of my psyche, has come to represent "my family"? What if it's easier to walk around in glassy-eyed roboticism than feel the pain resulting from comprehending at the deepest level what my government has become? What if recognizing that I live in an empire that is making war on me as well as my neighbors and the rest of the world is too reminiscent of the family I come from?

Dysfunctional Government/ Dysfunctional Family

So what might be some similarities between my dysfunctional government and my dysfunctional family?

First, a family's job is to protect the kid. Maybe it doesn't always pay enough attention to the kid and isn't always there for him when he needs it, but the family doesn't target him as an enemy. When the chips were down, they are the kid's ultimate ally. If I look at what my government is actually doing, I will have to own that it has become my enemy, and that I am its enemy as well—that my safety is the last of its concerns, and that Homeland Security isn't about protecting me but about waiting in the wings to implement martial law or confine me to a forced labor camp for not paying my debts. Furthermore, a healthy family provides basic necessities for a child and doesn't take food out of her mouth. Yet what we have witnessed in the last seven years is all-out warfare not only on the indigent, which really has not changed since the Great Depression, but a concerted effort to obliterate the middle class in America. The daunting, inevitable realities of Peak Oil, global warming, and worldwide recession are likely to make all of that much worse.

As agribusiness is allowed to genetically modify foods and ultimately patent all forms of life , as Congressmen introduce legislation to gut all state safety laws that conflict with toothless federal safety laws, as pollution is in the process of annihilating the human race and the ecosystems, as nearly 50 million Americans endure illness without health insurance, as big pharma insists on medicating everything that moves, as every semblance of privacy and individual civil liberties guaranteed by the Constitution are shredded—your government, my government is indeed eating the chosen people. Its sole intent at this point in history is to devour its citizens and anything that threatens to obstruct its voracious expansion of empire.

Well, OK, but even if my government/family isn't my ally, at least there is the rule of law which keeps things from decompensating into utter chaos, right? The best answer to this question comes from former insiders—people who have worked within the centralized systems of law
enforcement, finance, the media, and intelligence for example. Mike Ruppert and Celerino Castillo will tell you that the United States government has gone and continues to go to extraordinary extremes to bring illegal drugs into the country. Former San Jose Mercury journalist, Gary Webb , told us in great detail how such operations worked during Iran-Contra. Catherine Austin Fitts has written extensively about her experience in finance and government and has specifically addressed the myth of the rule of law in relation to some $4 trillion dollars currently missing from the U.S. government and how narco dollars are laundered through the U.S. stock market.

America's Love Affair With The Mob

Curious, isn't it, how fascinated Americans seems to have become with organized crime? How many seasons did they live for their weekly "Sopranos" fix, cluelessly unaware of how life imitates the Department of Housing and Urban Development or how HUD imitates the Sopranos? It's "safe" and somewhat titillating to watch "Godfather" re-runs as a series of mafia hits unfold while Michael Corleone (Al Pacino), who ordered them, piously presides over the baptism of his son. "Gee, I don't know anyone like that. It's so "far" from my world," says the wide-eyed viewer, sucking up the sop of corporate media which has become just one tentacle of the globalist leviathan whose rapacious extremities comprise the other major institutions of our society: education, government, the intelligence community, the military, centralized financial systems, and organized crime. How fortunate for the criminal enterprise that this government has become so surreptitious that its citizens are mesmerized by fictitious mob bosses rather than the murderous racketeers that that actually run the world—the world of most Americans—the one they imagine is hermetically sealed by the "rule of law."

Recently, it seems that network and cable TV channels have become awash in prison voyeurism. On one night, MSNBC's "Lockup" airs three solid hours of life behind bars in various state prisons. In ghastly reminiscence of Rome's "Bread And Circuses", the antics of tattooed, pierced, bad boys and girls are sensationally displayed—human beings whose incarceration insures that the stocks of Wackenhut and Corrections Corporations of America remain bullish.

Healthy caretakers set limits and model fairness. To open one's eyes to the reality that the United States government is one of the most corrupt on earth is to risk the anguish of feeling unimaginably violated and used by a government family (crime family?) which holds only contempt for its citizen/offspring.

You're As Sick As Your Secrets

One hallmark of a dysfunctional system is secrecy. The Bush administration has been labeled by some members of the media as the most secretive in the nation's history. The mind reels at what information it holds on a plethora of issues that it is not disclosing, but in my opinion, the most egregious are the realities ofglobal warming and Peak Oil—issues of which it has been extremely aware for a very long time and has worked hard to suppress. To be intimately familiar with the disastrous consequences of climate chaos and the end of the age of hydrocarbon energy and do nothing is heinous criminal negligence.

History will indeed record that in the late twentieth and earlytwenty-first centuries, a small group of ruling elite in the most powerful nation on earth, which consumed the largest amount ofhydrocarbon energy on the planet, were well aware of the natural phenomena of global warming and Peak Oil, and knowing full well the catastrophic consequences of those, bunkered their own homes with solar panels and infinite quantities of food and water, yet failed to disclose information vital to the health and safety of all life forms worldwide and the ecosystems themselves and intransigently rebuffed all attempts to create viable solutions to issues which ignored and neglected, inevitably result in cataclysm.

Any caring parent, aware that a tornado was approaching and about to obliterate his/her home and family, would inform the children asquickly as possible, immediately gather them, and take them to a safe location. To move oneself to safety and leave one's children fending
for themselves is nothing less than criminal neglect, indeed manslaughter. But the "children" (citizens) of America who may have some inkling of energy depletion and climate chaos and their consequences, blithely assume that the election of a new "mommy" or "daddy" president in 2008 will make everything "all better." Like so many neglected children placed in foster homes, those citizens may get a new "parent" in 2008, but it will be another neglectful one, equally invested in guarding the secret that catastrophe is rapidly approaching—equally committed to his/her own political and economic (...?)

Don't Go There

I am convinced that one's personal family history plays heavily in how deeply one can look into the black maw of evil that now runs this nation. As I have stated in earlier writings, I have repeatedly encountered hundreds of individuals who simply cannot assimilate, let alone investigate, the voluminous research regarding September 11,2001. Frequently, they confess that they simply do not want to know that their government orchestrated the attacks that murdered 3,000 people in one day. They freely admit that they cannot bear the possibility that their government annihilated its own citizens, nor can they tolerate the sense of powerless they feel in relation to that possibility. Some individuals will never be able to dig deeper than the official story; others will be able to do so, but slowly,gradually, as the layers of their psyche absorb the anomalies that not only linger, but grow more blatantly incongruous with every passing day.

Mommy And Daddy And The National Melodrama

True to his scathing cynicism, James Howard Kuntsler in, Mommy And Daddy, says that "Politics is the way we work out our collective national psychology," and that "American politics have fallen into a gothic family melodrama, and the theme is the same one being played out on the micro level all over the country: failed parenting." Kuntsler asserts that the Republicans have made themselves into the Daddy Party, while the Democrats have become the Mommy Party. The Daddy Party is a stern, rigid taskmaster, while the Mommy Party wants everyone to feel good and wants all outcomes to be fair.

While I don't agree with everything in his article, I do agree with Kuntsler's projection that as the Daddy Party becomes more of a terminal failure, more eyes focus on the Mommy Party and its dazzling "supermom", Hillary, who will most certainly persist in keeping the family secrets and as Kuntsler says, "keep the corporate flywheels spinning, and even look after the family's security from the thugs coming into the `hood'."

Allowing oneself to enter the deeper layers of history and current events is to open oneself to transformation in the depths of one's own psyche. I believe that on some level, we all know this, and our readiness to engage or not engage with realities in the external world, which may alter the internal, calibrates our individual degrees of denial.

Carl Jung once said that human beings cannot bear too much reality. We prefer to assume that our government is incompetent, inept, and wasteful because it is not as excruciating as the reality that we are its next meal. Each day upon awakening, we have the option of continuing to perpetuate this delusion, or dig deeper. While the incompetent/inept/wasteful fantasy "feels" better, it is ultimately more dis-empowering, for as Larry Clow writes in his fabulous System Breakdown article, "…the thought of a malicious government that's actively out to manipulate us is an enemy we can fight, which is somewhat more comforting than the alternative—a series of bungling, incompetent institutions that have failed us, and will fail us again, just when we need them the most." In other words, denial is more soothing, but so is heroin.

Still another way of putting it might be: Ignorance is bliss—until it kills you.

link (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=102170)

[ucicare]

I got about this far.....

"....they confess that they simply do not want to know that their government orchestrated the attacks that murdered 3,000 people in one day....."

I want to know. So I read as much as I could about it a long time ago. Every evidence based, peer reviewed investigation concerning the theory that the US Government flew planes into buildings states loudly and boldly - IT WAS NOT A CONSPIRACY.

The only people who believe that it is a conspiracy are the one that WANT it to be a conspiracy. If you WANT something to be true, it's easy to disregard all contrary evidence, and cling to the weakest shreds of "proof" to support a bogus theory.

I am not so blind to believe that the US could not have had a hand in the attacks. Anything is possible. What I found is that the evidence OVERWHELMINGLY supports non involvement by the Government. If you believe anything else, I suggest that you pull your head out of your ass and look at the "other" proof.

You can start here - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1

[Nursey]

You can start here - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1


Great. I can start off with an 'impartial investigation'(?) under the journalistic guidance of none other than Michael Chertoff's cousin!? :-\ I think i'd rather rely on my own investigative abilities, actually.

[Joeslogic]

The artical takes a lot a true points and meanders and rambles about the reasons for them in the end you have massive missunderstanding of the issues and a sadly mistaken idea of why.

[ucicare]

I think i'd rather rely on my own investigative abilities, actually.


Get real Nursey. The only investigation you have done "on your own" is to read what other people have said about what THEY have seen heard or done.

You haven't been in this country in 20 or more years have you?

But back to the article you posted -

The whole premise of it appears to be
Just look at a few statements and tell me if you really believe this -

1. "for the last seven years Criminal insanity is running our nation and our world."
So the Bush administration is criminally insane? And he runs the entire world?
All of the other world leaders are rational, sane poeple who are the mercy of this
madman? Right.

2. "the economic system is arranged in such a manner that people are required to work two or more jobs in order to survive."

Well lets see. I just work one job, but I'm a rich elitist Neocon so I don't count.
I do have lots of friends that have to work two jobs. It's not to survive though. It is so they can pay for their big assed houses in nice neighborhoods, and send their kids to nice schools, and pay for 2 brand new cars and at least one SUV to pull their travel trailer or Boat, and buy chemicals for their back yard pool, and pay the people that cut their grass, and make the payments on the condo at the beach
that they really can't afford, and pay cell phone charges for the whole family, and
buy 5 TV's and 5 computers and a whole host of other things they really don't
have to have to survive.

My parents only worked one job when I was kid. We had a three bedroom one bath
house that would be considered small by todays standard. One car, one TV and
one phone and one vacation a year. I could easily duplicate that lifestyle working
one day a week. Even at a low paying job, I could duplicate that lifestyle on a
single paycheck. "Survive" in American today means that you have to do without a
cell phone. Right now the unemployement level in Alabama is so low that wages
have climbed far above minimum wage for any job. Employers are begging for labor. There is absolutely not enough people willing to work to fill the jobs. A skilled
tradesman here can name his price.


3."the remarkable job of dumbing-down that American, so-called, education has
done in the past two decades so that the current generation can barely read..."

If Bush wanted to create a nation of Illiterates, why did he initiate the "no child
left behind program"? My daughter had to actually pass exit exams to graduate
High School. I didn't. If the US Government wants a nation of illiterates, why is
money so easy to get for College? Right now if I wanted to go back to school at
age 46 and earn a PhD, I could get up to $100,000 handed to me, and not have
to pay it back for at least 10 years. My kids can get all the money they want for
college without my signature. All they have to do is apply. That does not compute
with the statement above.

4. "If I look at what my government is actually doing, I will have to own that it has become my enemy"

Really? The Homeland Security program has done a decent job. No further attacks since 9/11. Wouldn't Bush have been smart to take the heat off of himself for Iraq by at least staging another attack on the homeland? Or by planting a few weapons of mass destruction to find? Or at least having a highly publicised failed attempt with a dirty bomb in Manhatten? He must be stupid to not know to do that. Or maybe it's really not a conspiracy after all.

5. "United States government has gone and continues to go to extraordinary extremes to bring illegal drugs into the country." "

Right.

If the US Government wanted to flood this country with Drugs, all they have to do is leagalize it. One act of congrees, and presto!, the job is done.

Drugs may well be the death of this country, but I would stake my life on the fact that our own Government is not the pusher.

My blood pressure riseth.

[pimpchichi]

your government is not one single entity though is it? ever thought there might be rogue elements that slip under your radar berreh? malignent influences here and there?

something stinks berreh.. and it's not just that rotten fish you're holding :D

[ucicare]

your government is not one single entity though is it? ever thought there might be rogue elements that slip under your radar berreh? malignent influences here and there?

something stinks berreh.. and it's not just that rotten fish you're holding :D



The simple fact that you are an idiot is evident in what you just wrote.

People who have little control of themselves have to create some hidden evil to explain away their own fears and insecurities. You and Nursey both fit this description.

As far as your statement goes -
There are bound to be malignant influences in Government, because there are HUMANS in government. A few evil people doesn't equal an orchestrated effort. The premise that there is some grand, well orchestrated plan for the elected Government of this country to destroy the populace is pure fantasy.

Smoke somemore weed and call me tomorrow.

[pimpchichi]

hmm actually barry you read much more into my post than was there.. whilst agreeing with what i'd said.. you came to a conclusion, whereas i hadn't!

perhaps you just wanted to lash out.. after all.. nursey had posted one of those articles that make your blood boil and your little fisties clench and wanna pound!!.. FATTY SMASH!

just so you know.. i have just the right amount of control over my life to be happy and content.. and i don't smoke weed :D ..

perhaps you should take whatever meds you take that act as a 'chill pill' and.. err.. don't call me tomorrow berry..

[ucicare]

Ok, so I lashed out.

SORRY.

I shouldn't have called you an Idiot, since that term is actually an anachronism. It was used in the 1800's to denote the lowest level of human function. A step up was the Imbecile, a further step up was the Moron, with the Simpleton rounding out the labels for the those who functioned below the average level of intellectual ability.

You are obviously well advanced from the idiot, and actually exceed the expectations for a Simpleton. Therefore I respectfully retract my slanderous labeling of you as an Idiot, and now coin you a modern day Thersites.

[pimpchichi]

well barry... given my newfound knowledge of greek history as given to me from comic book and movieland.. i'll coin you, with much confidence.. the modern day ephialtes :)

[pimpchichi]

of trachis of course.. and obviously as visualised by comic book and movie

[Nursey]

Get real Nursey. The only investigation you have done "on your own" is to read what other people have said about what THEY have seen heard or done.

Yes, forgive my sloppy wording, but i think you know what i meant. I'd rather rely on my own sources is what i should have said. Though i was the first person i knew of to doubt the official version of events regarding 9-11..due to having predicted the liklihood of such an event - a manufactured pretext to 'finish off Iraq' - being carried out by the Bush Administration (and said so the day he was elected). So i am my own source too on many matters.

4. "If I look at what my government is actually doing, I will have to own that it has become my enemy"

Really? The Homeland Security program has done a decent job. No further attacks since 9/11.

What about the neverending barrage of attacks on your freedoms? Anyway, you don't need extra security...you just need the security you have not to be ordered to stand down by Cheney.

Wouldn't Bush have been smart to take the heat off of himself for Iraq by at least staging another attack on the homeland? Or by planting a few weapons of mass destruction to find? Or at least having a highly publicised failed attempt with a dirty bomb in Manhatten? He must be stupid to not know to do that. Or maybe it's really not a conspiracy after all.

Why would they take such a monumentally idiotic (not 'smart' as you seem to believe) risk with the millions of scrutinising eyes and internet blogs all over the world on the alert for their next move? Why would they when they have so many gullible hordes - mainly in the U.S. - willing to swallow whatever bullshit they and their media whores peddle anyway, no matter how nonsensical and far flung it seems? They don't need to fool everybody to get away with their plans. Just the masses. (In fact, it seems they have their social engineering mapped out to an astonishingly precise degree after reading a little on the subject (http://www.syti.net/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html)).

If the US Government wanted to flood this country with Drugs, all they have to do is leagalize it. One act of congrees, and presto!, the job is done.

How could they amass undisclosed billions to fund the multitude of covert operations at home and abroad if the revenue from drugs was openly declared? And how would they garner the support of the general populace for such a radical move, particularly after conducting a decades long fake war on drugs.. without discrediting both themselves...and their fake war on terror? It's you who needs to 'get real'.

People who have little control of themselves have to create some hidden evil to explain away their own fears and insecurities. You and Nursey both fit this description.

How about you and your bedwetting? Does that fit the description?;) Or your reliance on medication to keep control of yourself? In fact, it does seem as if you are creating some 'hidden evil' to explain away your 'own fears and insecurities', rather than just approaching the matter from a purely logical view based on substantiated facts, as opposed to some fallacious pseudo-analysis designed to discredit those whose views strongly differ.

Allowing oneself to enter the deeper layers of history and current events is to open oneself to transformation in the depths of one's own psyche. I believe that on some level, we all know this, and our readiness to engage or not engage with realities in the external world, which may alter the internal, calibrates our individual degrees of denial.

[ucicare]

I am sure that what you just wrote sounds logical and convincing to you, in the same way that dead people bleed.

There was a patient in a psyche ward of a local hospital who insisted he was dead. No one had been successful in helping this patient overcome his distorted thinking. One day a young psychiatric resident asked his mentor if he could try to help this patient. The senior psychiatrist agreed.

The young resident said to the patient "I understand that you think you are dead". The man responded " I don’t think I’m dead, I know I’m dead".

The resident then asked him "Do dead people bleed"?

The man thought for a moment and then laughed and said "Of course dead people can’t bleed. Anyone knows that."

At that point, the resident took the man’s hand and pricked his finger with a needle. The finger began to bleed.

The resident pointed smugly to the man as said "then how do you explain the blood that is coming from your finger?"

The man looked thoughtfully at his finger for a while and then replied "That’s easy. It’s obvious that dead people do bleed."

The moral to this story is simple - when a firmly held belief encounters reality, reality suffers, not the belief. I am sure you will say that this axiom applies to me, not you. I believe we call such a situation an impasse. I call it "arguing with the dead."

[pimpchichi]

does praying really cure drug and sex addiction barry?
and why the fuck do you want to start shit with brawl hall?
is being a stupid asshole one of your professional qualifications?

[Joeslogic]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/NWOandVampiresandUFOs.jpg


Any more questions?

[ucicare]

does praying really cure drug and sex addiction barry?

No.

It doesn't hurt though. As far as scientific evidence, prayer has been shown to have a positive effect on people. So does a placebo, so I won't automatically credit God with the miracle.


and why the fuck do you want to start shit with brawl hall?

I don't. If I did, I would have done it. I was just bored and posted something to get a discussion going after an entire week of boring nothing in this forum. If you noticed, it was posted in the general mayhem forum. Hardly the place for seriousness now is it?


is being a stupid asshole one of your professional qualifications?


You might prove me to be an asshole, but you won't find supporting evidence for stupid. I can't ever remember scoring below the *99th percentile in any standarized IQ test that I have taken. I have proof of that if you need convincing. As far as professional qualifications, being an asshole is sometimes considered a character attribute in my profession, and is often a requisite* to the treatment of personality disorders (like yours).

*new concept alert for Pimp -
99th percentile - http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx
requisite -http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/07/05.html

[pimpchichi]

why do you have a repeated need to brag about your IQ? do your feelings of inadequacy have something to do with it?..maybe that's why you attack dan.. maybe your bedwetting was related?.. when did that stop exactly out of interest?.. when you quit being a drunk?

and you don't have to be an 'idiot' to be stupid, asshole...


ps.. IQ tests are bullshit.. but i bet i score higher :-*

[Joeslogic]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/NWOandVampiresandUFOs.jpg

;D

[ucicare]

why do you have a repeated need to brag about your IQ?
I don't think that refuting your accusation that I am stupid by stating a verifiable fact constitutes bragging.

do your feelings of inadequacy have something to do with it?
I have never had feelings of inadequacy. I have had feelings of inferiority, however. As a child I was labeled "lazy" or "doesn't try" or even "stupid" by several teachers because I could not do the class work the way they wanted me to. I never felt they were right, but it certainly sticks in the mind of a child. I was an adult before I actually understood that they were very wrong, and that I was actually very bright. A diagnosis of AD/HD and the proper treatment really cleared things up.

Want proof that I am doing OK these days? The fact that I have no problem telling you the above personal things should testify of my current state of self assuredness. What you think of me really matters very little. I know who I am.



maybe that's why you attack dan..

I attack Dan because we both enjoy it. Pretty much the same for Nursey. I wouldn't be surprised if Dan and I work together someday. Ask him for yourself if he thinks I really don't like him.

As for you, I really have to work hard to like you. I think that you parrot what you hear Nursey say just to stay on her happy side. You appear to be the epitome of a *Minione. I hear very little original ideas from you, and even less self revelation. The fact that you completey hide the real you from everyone here tells me how inadequate and insecure you feel in YOU really are.

Damn Pimp, I signed in here with my real name, real address, and real picture. Does that sound like a man with something to hide?


maybe your bedwetting was related?..

the fact that I freely talk about my childhood should give you a hint that I am comfortable with it. Bed wetting past age five is very common with AD/HD. I feel a need to let others know about the realities of the problem.


when did that stop exactly out of interest?..

Stop bedwetting? At puberty, which is also common for AD/HD. About 13 best I remember. I had accidents occasionally up to age 16. Lots of fun.



when you quit being a drunk?

I can't ever remember ever being a drunk. I drank beer when I was in my early 20's, and probably had 4-6 beers at least 3 days a week for 2-3 years. At my size, that hardly gets a good buzz going. I quit for a long time.

I can take it or leave it now. I enjoy Beer with food, especially Raw Oysters or Boiled Shrimp. I am better off with my weight if I don't drink at all.

FYI - I tried MJ twice as a young adult, and didn't like it. I have never tried an other illegal drugs, and have never taken anything that wasn't prescribed to me.


you don't have to be an 'idiot' to be stupid, asshole...

I guess you offer yourself as proof of that hypothesis? ;)


ps.. IQ tests are bullshit.. but i bet i score higher :-*


I'll take that bet.

Get admitted as a fellow here and I will concede the contest - http://www.cerebrals.com/index.php?go=admission

*Explaination for Pimp. Take your choice of definitions. They all fit.
Minion - 1.n : a follower who hangs around in hope of gain or advantage
2. An obsequious or servile dependent or agent of another; a fawning favorite
3. An obsequious follower or dependent; a sycophant.

[pimpchichi]

wow you typed a lot..

i don't care whether you like me or not berry.. never have.. nor am i nurseys minion (btw i don't need your condescending definition postings.. my vocabulary is tiptop) nor do i parrot what i hear from nursey.. you don't hear revelations from me because i don't need validation by spouting crap about myself on here.. i only really post here to make my beloved happy.. and maybe to bait you a bit..

and actually looking at the entrance requirements from that link.. i guess i could well do it.. since the lowest score on my 3 mensa entrance exams was 147.. but that was back when i thought shit like that might mean something... then i went to one of the social gathering things the members organise..

jesus christ :-\

but hey.. if you wanna organise something.. and i don't have to go too far out of my way.. and it won't cost me anything.. i'll be happy to take tests, join a pointless club and make you my bitch :-*

[ucicare]

wow you typed a lot..

.. i only really post here to make my beloved happy..


Thanks for validating my point.

Now hook the leash on your collar and go back to bed.

[Disorder]

Ok people, the earth is changing, the new Earth Empire is awakening, the US wants control of the middle east because its is centrally/ strategically placed to deploy the world vader squads, aka world police, into any dissident Eurasian countries who think the mafia run 'bigbrotherhood' is a bad thing, its not just about oil, its about positioning. Fall in line DRONE, this is all we are going to be. Loss of Family values, freedoms, constant surveilance, why are these things happening, its because the all rich and powerful never want you to EVER EVER stop them, so wake up, because its time for them to realise they work for us, not the other way round.

Its a multiple attack, financial stain will cause a collapse, the aftermath(reccession) will cause lots of rioting, then the pol-military will spread out to calm it and there will be lots of shit to deal with.

The elites dont ever want you to know, that they are making the North American Union (yes they are, numbnuts) after this the Asian union will fall into line and the last 3 unions/misc nations will merge into the World Government.

The US government is a pawn of total world control, they want an infinate war (BTW its been announed that US occupation of Iraq & the middle east will be another 30 years or so) they also lied to you, to get what they wanted; the push for military action in the 'ME'. This has happened OVER AND OVER, pearl harbour/ gulf of tonkin/ WW2, were instigated because of a lie.

Take a look at the doublespeak that these countries spew fourth on a regular basis, if they really wanted to do stuff in our best interest, why dont they permanently shut down cigerette companies, instead of forcing us to stop or taxing us more? NO they want to tell us what to do and get away with it! This also includes pouring your 'dangerous' liquids away at airports (into 1 container too, where they 'dangerously' could mix, fucking lies) This is a precurser to the world control system, where they tell you what to do and you blindly obey, you will fight for them, or slave for them.

Why do they keep holding back electric cars? they arnt' inefficient( in fact far from it ), they just dont take FUEL

Why do they say we have to reduce CO2 emmissions? Its not causing the planet to heat up, because global warming is only 6% man made, the rest is the SUN and its been proven. Aside from the fact that we arn't the cause and they constantly lie to us, CO2 is actually essential to our survival, its just carbon dioxide, the stuff plants breath, so WE can breath, more CO2 is actually GOOD.

I'm starting to get really annoyed at peoples ignorance over social/policial shaping taking place in our world, but nobody 'cares' because you're all hooked on TV, games and just want to think what you are getting for tea, or what they are doing this weekend, or what hairstyle to go for next.

Its not so much a 'dumbing down' as it is total distraction. Watch the blue frilly hanky, watch it flutter around, watch watch *SLIPS other arm around side, unfastens watch and belt and removes wallet from pocket*

Stop defending them.

[pimpchichi]

wow you typed a lot..

.. i only really post here to make my beloved happy..


Thanks for validating my point.
Now hook the leash on your collar and go back to bed.


i should rephrase that.. it gave the wrong impression.. i only READ this forum still because nursey still posts here and i like to read what she wrote and me reading her stuff makes her happy somewhat.. i only really post to annoy you.. and joe..

and are you saying that wanting to make your loved one happy is a wrong thing?


Why do they keep holding back electric cars? they arnt' inefficient( in fact far from it ), they just dont take FUEL

electricity is still energy.. that you have to buy from people who use fuel to generate it... the thing holding back electric cars is people not wanting to buy them.

[Disorder]

Fair point, maybe they didn't invest enough to make it work, so that the cars themselves never appeared to be efficient and not a good choice for purchase? I think the last concern was the technology, that charging took too long and the batteries didn't last, but I'm sure it would be quite good now. The hydrogen fuel cell thing might also work.
It could be the elites dont want us to stop using petrol fuel because it already has the monopoly, bringing new forms of energy in would mean lots of new companies, regulations and all the other bullshit that they have already worked hard to gain control of.. Why reinvent the wheel as they say.

I was also reminded of the Simpsons with the cult that Homer joins that looks like freemasons or some secret order and they sing about keeping back the electric car, always makes me think hehe.

[pimpchichi]

i think you'll find that 'the elites' will also control the alternative energy sources once the technology is at a point where it is viable to be used by consumers.. after all.. who is putting the billions of dollars into the research that will get it working?.. and the hydrogen from hydrogen fuel cells isn't all that viable as an alternative energy since it is extracted from fossil fuels.. getting hydrogen from water uses up pretty much as much energay as can be gotten from the hydrogen produced.. i know that it's simply a matter of running electricity through water.. but on a scale where the supply could meet our vast demands?...

and if you wanna get all conspiratorial?.. why are you putting forward as an energy supply the one that bush said we'll put research funding into in one of his speeches.. do a bit of digging.. you see whos doing the research?

and it was the sacred order of the stonecutters btw

[ucicare]

and are you saying that wanting to make your loved one happy is a wrong thing?

Nah.

I'm just saying that you let your guard down for a bit and hit you with a sucker punch.

Lets call a truce. I'm busy today.

[pimpchichi]

oh yeah.. todays the most important day of the year for you jesus juicers

[ucicare]

oh yeah.. todays the most important day of the year for you jesus juicers


That was yesterday here. I skipped Church. Shame on me.

Today is Monday - back to work.

[Joeslogic]

Fair point, maybe they didn't invest enough to make it work, so that the cars themselves never appeared to be efficient and not a good choice for purchase? I think the last concern was the technology, that charging took too long and the batteries didn't last, but I'm sure it would be quite good now. The hydrogen fuel cell thing might also work.
It could be the elites dont want us to stop using petrol fuel because it already has the monopoly, bringing new forms of energy in would mean lots of new companies, regulations and all the other bullshit that they have already worked hard to gain control of.. Why reinvent the wheel as they say.

I was also reminded of the Simpsons with the cult that Homer joins that looks like freemasons or some secret order and they sing about keeping back the electric car, always makes me think hehe.


Demand will naturally drive technology for alternative sources. If oil is peaking then there is no worries change is inevitable as petrol fuels become to expensive. Batteries have come a long ways and I think if on a large scale battery powered cars were a solution can you imaging how bad it will be when some scumbag redneck dumps one in the river? Lead, lithium, acid. Alcohol sounds somewhat promising. Hydrogen fuel even better. But if oil really is peaking then the Elites you speak of have no choice in the matter. But consider this if oil sustains a price above some threshold then all of a sudden shale oil is feasible. Anyone watching that cookie jar to see who is buying up shale rich land?

But you are one of the only people to point out what I have said time and time again and that is if you take every bit of man made co2 you only have a small percentage of the total co2 output. Also there is an interesting theory about waters effect on co2 and the relation ship it has as a co2 reservoir. The earth is mostly water and water temperature is inversely proportional to the amount of co2 it holds. With all the geothermal activity as of late there is no wonder there is an increase in co2 levels. Also the increased solar activity is undisputable.

Imagine this the solar activity of the sun stabilizes and then goes to normal. Prompting a slight lowering of the earth’s water temp thereby sucking huge percentages of co2 out of the atmosphere.

Now we have a real problem if indeed co2 does have the thermal effect it is touted to have.

The next ice age upon us and before Gores dooms day prediction that we are going to melt by 2012. (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/enviro_wackos/algore10yearstodoom.guest.html)

[Nursey]

The moral to this story is simple - when a firmly held belief encounters reality, reality suffers, not the belief. I am sure you will say that this axiom applies to me, not you. I believe we call such a situation an impasse. I call it "arguing with the dead."


But you are the one who is 'making reality suffer' by trying to portray both me and Pimp as being irrational and suffering from personality disorders just for having a conflicting view, not the other way round!? The reality of the matter is that you have never met us or even had a proper conversation with us. To make such authoritative sounding assertions about what we are like in real life and the mental problems we supposedly suffer as a result in an attempt to belittle our views, puts you in the position of the person who shapes reality to fit their firmly held belief - not us.

But anyway, i'm tired of discussions about 9-11, but particularly with people who think Michael Chertoff's cousin is a reliable source of information and that the laws of physics bend for America (http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html). And believe that countless magnificent odds all miraculously occurred at the same time...which just so happened to deliver the perfect catalyst - 'a new Pearl Harbor' - described as being the necessary event to launch the next stage of the P.N.A.C....some of whose most prominent members just so happened to be at the helm when the entire debacle went down.

Or discussions of any sort, for that matter, with someone whose hallmark has become to accuse those who disagree with him of suffering from a mental illness or character disorder, thereby (conveniently) dismissing straight out of hand well reasoned challenges to their pumped-up, self-important opinions. Leads you to suspect that someone is really not quite as secure in their views as they like to make out. So, moving on...

Take a look at the doublespeak that these countries spew fourth on a regular basis, if they really wanted to do stuff in our best interest, why dont they permanently shut down cigerette companies, instead of forcing us to stop or taxing us more? NO they want to tell us what to do and get away with it! This also includes pouring your 'dangerous' liquids away at airports (into 1 container too, where they 'dangerously' could mix, fucking lies) This is a precurser to the world control system, where they tell you what to do and you blindly obey, you will fight for them, or slave for them.

I also see the fearmongering and the extremes they are going to to 'safeguard' the public against passive smoking as having the appearance of social engineering. As well as being an extremely lucrative (multi-billion dollar) money spinner for pharmaceutical giants who produce the nicotine 'smokeless delivery systems' such as patches and inhalers, of course. The scientist who first established a link between cancer and primary smoking has even stated that no real, conclusive scientific evidence exists which proves any significantly harmful effects of passive smoking on health. The anti-smoking activists only cite research which supports their claims and ignore all findings to the contrary. Anti-smoking groups which exert influence on politicians and media are all funded by the pharmaceutical companies. The pharmaceutical industry also donates more money to American politicians and political parties than any other corporate entity and employ lobbyists to influence politicians. They spend billions on hundreds of thousands of events attended by doctors and their anti-smoking groups are very successful at promoting their interests in the media. The western anti-smoking crusade demonstrates how giant conglomerates are now capable of bypassing the laws of sovereign countries, influencing and shaping our lives under the auspice of health.


.Critics raise red flags as drug giant backs anti-smoking guide (http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3393d14c-5466-4b65-8919-7f76acbace52)

Anti smoking groups have once again been criticised for failing to declare conflicts of interest.

Despite being heavily funded by the pharmaceutical giants, who gain from increased sales in nicotine replacement therapy, anti smoking research never declares any conflict. The anti smoking groups that push this research are also highly dependent on pharmaceutical funding and despite the high failure rate of NRT therapy they continue to push its use; even going so far as to say 'don't try to quit without it'.

With the virtual 'gagging' of the tobacco industry due to its past lies and misgivings there is now little balance in the debate with free reign being given to the other extreme, the anti smoking movement. It is high time that the pharmaceutical industry and the special interest groups that promote them were brought to task for terrifying the public over everything from sunshine to passive smoke for no better reason than promoting products that don't work and increasing the bottom line.

Meanwhile our politicians are duped, wittingly or not, and thousands of people are put out of work, by the exaggerations from the non-profits; American Lung, American Cancer, American Non-Smokers Rights Foundation, American Medical Association; nearly every university in the country including the U of M, etc.; all of whom have accepted hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying money from the very same pharmaceutical nicotine affiliated Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. link (http://cleanairquality.blogspot.com/2005/07/why-is-pharmaceutical-company-funding.html)

The undeniable connection between antismoking propaganda and the pharmaceutical industry -- or: ministries at the service of multinationals.

It is not a coincidence that the pharmaceutical giants pay antismoking activists all over the world to instigate hysteria and mass hatred against smokers. The goal of this marketing campaign, which involves even well-known names of international medicine, is quite clear: the smoker, frightened by the disinformation, tormented even by his kids (who get brainwashed in school), thrown out from public places and workplaces – and finally hated by society – tries to quit to conform. But, since he is told he is an “addict”, he must turn to the help of his doctor, who either sends him to a quit-smoking centre or prescribes the “therapy” directly, depending on the business arrangements made with Big Pharma. With public money, therefore, a private enterprise that is based on persecution is promoted – a persecution that goes after the very segment of the public that pays for that kind of marketing, using “public health” to induce the people to change their behaviour through using false and biased information, to satisfy the financial needs of private colossuses.

This is the chilling reality of the Fraud of the Century and documentation from two major pharmaceutical manufacturers corroborates the mountain of evidence (not the statistical one!...) we are accumulating. link (http://www.forces.org/evidence/money/introph.htm)

[phatboy]

I started reading this post from the beginning and have came to the conclusion that......

A) Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

B) America is the Evil Empire simply because in a few hundred years we have gone from a group of colonies to the most powerful country in the world. Nobody likes a show off.

C) Everyone wants Americas help, but then they want to dictate how we help.

D) It's all about money and self preservation.


I am by no means rich, however I do own my own house, have two new cars, one old car (92 Honda Accord for sale if you need one), A nice 32ft travel trailer, a jet ski, 4 wheeler, motorcycle, and an older 4x4 that I am rebuilding.

I only work one job. My wife is a real estate agent that works about 3-5 hrs a week.... I am good at finding deals. I make 4 payments monthly (other than insurance) Car, Truck, Camper, House. All of which I can pay with one paycheck. My wife likes to cook, but she doesnt like to clean so we eat out a lot. I am pretty copacetic with my life.

So hate me cause you live in a desert with no food.

Like Sam Kennison said, "See this, this is sand, yea, sand, you cant grow food in sand......SO FUCKIN MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!!AHHH AHHH"

[Nursey]

I think that you parrot what you hear Nursey say just to stay on her happy side. You appear to be the epitome of a *Minione. I hear very little original ideas from you, and even less self revelation. The fact that you completey hide the real you from everyone here tells me how inadequate and insecure you feel in YOU really are.

Damn Pimp, I signed in here with my real name, real address, and real picture. Does that sound like a man with something to hide?

So did Pimp...in the first year he posted at fugly. Should he post annual updates or something? And be honest here, you would never have been so candid (or joined for that matter) had you originally been aware of the true nature of this place, would you? I seem to recall a slight error on your judgement (http://www.fuglyforums.com/index.php?topic=3796.msg89744#msg89744) when you first got involved here? ;)

Doesn't it occur to you that perhaps one of the things that attracted me to Pimp was the extent to which his views were in harmony with mine on a wide range of key issues? As well as having the self-conviction to credibly refute my opinions where necessary, something i found extremely refreshing, after always having had the stronger/dominant mind in previous relationships.

i only really post here to make my beloved happy..

Except here he's being a nad.

[pimpchichi]

so are you saying i'm dominant?...

woo.. yeah bitch make me pie!
:D

[Joeslogic]

She makes you pee?

What..... in your pants?

[pimpchichi]

no joe.. in barry's bed.. but shhhh

[Nursey]

so are you saying i'm dominant?...


Well, when you're not being a fag. 8)

[pimpchichi]

so yes then.. i'm dominant

[Nursey]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/ohmikey.gif

[ucicare]

But you are the one who is 'making reality suffer' by trying to portray both me and Pimp as being irrational and suffering from personality disorders just for having a conflicting view, not the other way round!?

No, I think that you and Pimp are both whackos because you both post here on Fugly. Nobody in their right mind would every hang around this place.

Wait a minute....that means that I too am...no wait, thats not what I meant....


The reality of the matter is that you have never met us or even had a proper conversation with us. To make such authoritative sounding assertions about what we are like in real life and the mental problems we supposedly suffer as a result in an attempt to belittle our views, puts you in the position of the person who shapes reality to fit their firmly held belief - not us.

So call me and set me straight. You know that I have been DYING to talk to you for months.


any[/i] sort, for that matter, with someone whose hallmark has become to accuse those who disagree with him of suffering from a mental illness or character disorder, thereby (conveniently) dismissing straight out of hand well reasoned challenges to their pumped-up, self-important opinions. Leads you to suspect that someone is really not quite as secure in their views as they like to make out. So, moving on...

Would you like to do a little search and see when was the last time I labeled you anything?

I am NOT "improtected" by the way, so don't make any assumptions.

[Nursey]

I am NOT "improtected" by the way, so don't make any assumptions.

I never thought you were. I was just pointing out whose ass crack she craftily slipped into in order to negotiate her way around the forum.

So call me and set me straight. You know that I have been DYING to talk to you for months.

Just call Improtected. I'm not into talking dirty to middle aged men, errr...'big daddy'. :-\

[ucicare]

Just call Improtected. I'm not into talking dirty to middle aged men, errr...'big daddy'. :-\


She doesn't speak with a British accent. It's just not the same.

[Nursey]

She doesn't speak with a British accent.

Well, i sound more like Sean Connery than Liz Whorley. Stick that in your fantasy and shmoke it! ::)

[Nursey]

This is great. :D

Are 911 Truth Deniers Dumber Than A 5th Grader? (http://www.rense.com/general76/truther.htm)


The most subversive show on television is on the Fox TV network. Maybe you've seen it. Hosted by a guy named Jeff Foxworthy, the show is called "Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader?"

Hopefully, the show is broadcast to every nation of the world, including China, the Middle East and the English-speaking nations of the former British empire. Why? To show the rest of the world what they already suspect: that most Americans are a bunch of greedy nitwits, numbskulls and knuckleheads.

Truly, most Americans are Not smarter than a fifth grader. Indeed, judging from the shows I've seen, quite a few American adults are dumber than a FIRST grader. The adults--and I use that word loosely--who participate on the show are college graduates with good jobs. Some of them graduated with honors--whatever that means in collegiate circles. Uniformly, they perform badly. If ignorance is bliss then most of the adults on the show are positively delirious. They win a few thousand dollars, sometimes a quarter million, but for the most part, look like greedy imbeciles.

They ALL remind me of 911 truth deniers.

First question: What is jet fuel? Don't know? Yes, you are dumber than a fifth grader. Could a kerosene fire (basically jet fuel) melt steel beams? No, but sometimes it does if the government says it can and the Twin Towers are involved. Sorry, wrong answer. You are dumber than any first grader possessing a basic understanding of a barbecue grill.

I'm forever delighted by the faces of the wise children everywhere. They remind me of "Truthers," those citizens concerned with nothing so much as unraveling a great crime against America, convinced we can persuade even the dumbest Americans--and God knows there are millions of them---that steel building do not just fall down at the speed of gravity, no matter how many morons at MIT say they can.

Okay: How many sides to a trapezoid? Every Truther, and fifth grader on the show that I happened to watch, knew the answer to that. Four, as in the shape of the WTC-7 foundation.

Most 911 debunkers love to quote the number of top US scientists, engineers and architects who deny 911 was an inside job. Luckily, we Truthers can demonstrate that many of these top experts are just plain dumb. How? We need only point to a show like "Smarter Than A 5th Grader," a show that readily indicates how dumb so-called educated American people can be. Even ones with advanced degrees and Cum Laude after their names.

Indeed, one of the World's Most Famous Smart Persons, a professor at MIT named Chomsky, said the perplexing anomalies of 911 didn't really matter to him. Huh? That would be like asking a group of fifth graders how did the Titanic sink? And then remarking to them to ignore the iceberg altogether and focus instead on the weight and volume of the water that filled the ship. All while manipulating computer models to show that a few open portholes caused the Titanic to sink.

Because that was EXACTLY what the Kean Commission did to WTC-7. They ignored the collapse of a 600 foot World Trade Center building altogether. And that was EXACTLY what NIST has done also, for the past five years. They have ignored the obvious, ignoring the iceberg, focusing on the floodwater.

Are Americans dumber than 5th graders? Yes, especially most of the top scientists working for the US government. For example, a videotape was shown---but not identified---to a top Dutch demolition expert. The videotape was of a 47 story government building collapsing in 6.5 seconds. The Dutch expert---unlike many of the top US experts---said unequivocally that the building had been blown down. A controlled demolition. Indeed, you could show that same videotape to those 5th graders and get the same answer.

The chief difference? Neither the Dutch expert nor the 5th graders depend on the US government to pay their salaries, or fund their think tanks or universities. Thus they can answer honestly and without fear of retribution.

Magna Cum Laude in Cowardice? Simply look around.

Next Question: Who met with the (alleged but never proven) head hijacker's bagman, met him for breakfast on 9-11? If you answered a top Al Qaeda member, you would be WRONG. But if you answered several top US intelligence figures met with the man who provided Mohammed Atta with $100,000 you would be right.

Another question. Why couldn't NORAD get even one plane aloft to encounter even one hijacked jet? Was it because our highly trained air force pilots are incompetent and dumber than a 5th grader? How do you feel about that? That the rest of the world thinks we are dumber than a newborn babe for believing that the top air defense in the world--NORAD--couldn't even get ONE fighter jet aloft in ninety minutes, 90 MINUTES?

We really are a dumb race of people if we believe 9-11 was a case of incompetence. Dumber still if we accept the excuses from our government officials and haven't demanded the indictment of even ONE person that allowed close to 3,000 citizens be murdered.

Debunkers would have you believe the official lie. And it is a masterful lie. They want to keep you dumb; that is their whole purpose. To keep you dumb. To keep you from asking too many questions. But mostly to keep you from demanding answers, and then demanding indictments and convictions.

But debunkers are relatively few, and mostly shrewd, manipulative liars.

911 truth deniers, on the other hand---the millions of ordinary folks who adhere to the official story--would have us simply give the US government the benefit of the doubt. When you ask them why, when you point to the string of lies before and after 911, when you point to the murderous government policies post- 911, they stare dumbly, like contestants on that TV game show.

On that TV show, however, the 5th graders can sometimes help those dumb adults. But only IF the adults want to be helped. Five years after 911, we Truthers are the fresh-faced students, trying to awaken our compatriots to the correct answers. And in this case, they have a whole lot more to win or lose than a few thousand dollars.

Footnote: I would like once again to thank my compatriots at 911blogger.com who provided the illustration. As you can see, it doesn't take a rocket scientists to understand 911. Indeed, most American rocket scientists are probably too dumb.

Simply put: Can an object fall through mass 5 times greater than itself, falling nearly as fast as it would fall through empty air, when the only force available is gravity? Sure it can, as long as the object is falling through a heavily-insured white elephant housing sensitive government offices.

USAF veteran Douglas Herman writes for Rense regularly and clearly understood the scam of the NORAD standdown within a few months after 911. He wrote the recent Rense feature, Why No Norad On 911?

[phatboy]

Wow. I actually do feel dumber after actually reading that.

Did you know it was actually covert British agents that masterminded the Boston Tea Party? Or that the secession of the south in the Civil War was actually the same British Covert group. I mean just look at the teeth of those Brits.

Dont forget Pearl Harbor, I mean, we were just chomping at the bit to get into WWII full fledged. Think of all the scotch tape it took to get all those Americans to look Japanese.......

[Nursey]

Wow. I actually do feel dumber after actually reading that.

Did you know it was actually covert British agents that masterminded the Boston Tea Party? Or that the secession of the south in the Civil War was actually the same British Covert group. I mean just look at the teeth of those Brits.

Dont forget Pearl Harbor, I mean, we were just chomping at the bit to get into WWII full fledged. Think of all the scotch tape it took to get all those Americans to look Japanese.......


This has what to do with laws of physics and stand down orders?

[Joeslogic]

This has what to do with laws of physics and stand down orders?


Honestly Nursey you need to take a few steps back and look and what you have copied into this thread. The way you throw the word physics up there leads me to understand that you are either not paying close attention or have a really poor understanding of physics.

Do you think if they were designing two fairly identical towers using the same materials they would use the same exact materials if in the design one of the towers was designed to hold up to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit and 30 tons of matter pounding into the top qtr. of its height. Do you truly believe it would be made of the same reinforcement?

The whole idea if the beams having to melt have been gone over already. Time and time again however you bring it up as if there is a point we need to consider.

Do yourself a favor and take a physics class ok?

[Nursey]

Can an object fall through mass 5 times greater than itself, falling nearly as fast as it would fall through empty air, when the only force available is gravity?

[pimpchichi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4261315.stm

this one burnt for around 24 hours...(not an hour or so) the top part of it collapsed... but the rest of it was obviously strong enough to hold out and not collapse almost in a freefall..

my theory??

the trrrrrrisst KNEW your buildings are WEAK like your MEN and your ECONOMY


VIVA ESPANA!!

[Joeslogic]

Well can a raindrop fall upwards torwards the clouds without any abnormal wind conditions?

[Nursey]

Brain scans revealed that the politically biased are virtually addicted to lying to themselves to maintain their view that their party and leaders are flawless. People of both political sides are equally affected by bias. When viewing truth that doesn't suit our ideals, most of us deny it and go on as if it never happened. Mainly because most of us don't even understand the way bias affects us or that it makes us completely irrational.

VIDEO (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=803888063&n=2).

[Joeslogic]

Hold on I have not watched the video but are you actually saying that this is a Republican conspiracy? ;D

Oh hell this is getting crazier by the minute. It's like the whole O.J. Simpson was conspired against by the whole LAPD conspiracy. At face value it’s totally nuts. You cannot keep that many people quiet. You have to ignore that there is a whole black segregated (by choice) section of the FOP that watch and monitor the department for anything out of line. And there is no party loyalty strong enough shit like that cannot simply be kept secret.

This is lunacy pure lunacy.

It's like you are compelled by some lunitic force to believe this shit.

[phatboy]

So how do you compare the structural integrity of a 32 story building, and the lateral force applied, to a 110 story building? There was more building above the planes than that whole building. Not to mention the concrete, steel, and all the other building material that it took to build a building that tall. The argument that Jet A does not burn hot enough is ridiculous. The heat doesnt have to melt the steel, just heat it up enough to make it pliable.

Boeing 767
Operating empty 90,535kg (199,600lb)
Max takeoff 181,890kg (401,000lb)


Cruising Speed around 500MPH

So you take this weight, the cruising speed and run it into a building, that construction started on in 1966, and see what happens. The heat from the fire didnt melt the steel, it just made it bendable. With all the weight above it, just heating it enough would cause the beams to bend, as the weight comes down, the 'pancake' effect happens, and as the weight falls, 1 floor height, the next floor, not designed to carry the added weight of the 30-40 floors above it.

We all watched the planes crash into the buildings. We saw the buildings collapse. And someone wants me to believe, as these buildings are collapsing, and all the people are running away from it, that someone stops, looks back and says, "Hey was that an explosion?" Yea, the government decided to kill over 3000 people just to go into Iraq.

Sometime the answer is right in front of your face.

But, here is a good read for all.

http://www.aros.net/~wenglund/Logic101a.htm

A few I liked....

Fallacy of opposition: those who disagree with you must be wrong and not thinking straight.

Multiple questions or assertions (plurium interrogationum): asking a complex question or a series of questions, or stating a complex assertion or multiple assertions, while only allowing for a single simple response, and then assuming the oppositions inability to adequately respond is indication that their position is wrong.

Shifting the burden of proof: demanding that the person denying and assertion prove his/her case, whereas the burden of proof is upon the person who argues the position.

[Disorder]

I was watching 9/11 almost from the beginning and I screamed at the TV when I saw the buildings collapse, the word I said was

' FARCE '

because what I was seeing was going against what I was hearing, it was a joke, ive seen dozens of buildings brought down by demolitions exactly like that, there is no way that could have happened the way it did if steel 'bent' because the 'bending' is a force that would transfer to the whole building itself, it WOULD NOT COME DOWN IN ITS OWN FOOTPRINT WITH 0% SWAYING

If it had indeed, softened the steel, the supports would bend AT THE POINT THE HEAT WAS APPLIED,which means it would twist and topple over, ending up like an upside down U

Quite basic physics & gravity there really ::)

PS I havent watched a TV since that day (it was removed from my room), thats how much I believed it was a scam.

[phatboy]

Okay. Here is a simple test. Take an empty coke can, pop can to some, place yoour foot squarely on top and apply a good bit of pressure. Depending on your size, you can probably step on it completely. Have one of your friends, chums, mates, or your mom thump the can.

Which way did it go?

Okay? You see how that works?



*Special thanks to Mr. Wizards world, circa 1984 or so.......

[pimpchichi]

so the top of the building falling onto the floors underneath and making them 'freefall' was the scaled up equivalent of a person's weight pressing upon an empty (untrussed) cylinder of 24g aluminium? wow.. heavy stuff!.. was there much space between the atoms even?!?!?!

you know that when i was doing design and technology at school.. i created a platform out of balsa wood that could easily support my weight... in fact it was so overengineered that when a portion of it was destroyed it never collapsed... the strength of triangles wonderful things...

in fact i've seen many many many overengineered structures with lots of triangles in them in the many years i've been working in construction... i also know that buildings designed to withstand fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, bombs etc need plenty of precisely placed explosive to bring them down cleanly... i don't just read these things on websites.. i know these things because i work in the fucking building industry....

i know of course that steel loses half it's integrity at 500 degrees... i didn't realise though that the aviation fuel had drenched the whole building from top to bottom in about an hour and made it as weak as the scaled up equivalent of a person's weight pressing upon an empty (untrussed) cylinder of 24g aluminium... phew!!

obviously the trrrrists did though.. and knew your buildings are WEAK like your MEN and your ECONOMY!! and the fuel was STRONG and PLENTIFUL like JIHAD!

[Disorder]

If you can stand on a can to crush it in the same way every time I'll be amazed, because actually calculating where your foot and body mass should be placed for perfect center weight dispersion is only capable by very smart people or machines, you'll probably find drink cans bend to the side most attempts. ( actually its sort of to the side, and then in and down on top of its self, leaving not a flattened circle, but a spread out oval )

The keyword there is 'calculated', or you could possibly use 'formulated' or just 'premeditated' or 'PLANNED' they're all good.

[pimpchichi]

actually we have to crush cans lots since the council make us recycle and only collect once a fortnight, and since their sack is pretty small for my beer guzzling household crushing is the only way to get all our cans in there...

its actually very rare to have a can crush cleanly in on itself to create a circle..

unfortunately it was collection day today so the sack is bare... give me a week and i'll have lots of crushed cans to photograph for PROOF... because visual PROOF is great innit!?!.. words just don't have the same impact

[phatboy]

Did you see any of your mystical triangles in the buildings? I understand the cross beam and it's supporting ability, the can example simply shows that it doesnt have to fall over into a U shape. The fuel fire does not have to consume the whole building. Hell the Jet itself damaged the steal beams, causing the structural integrity to be compromised.

Have you seen the blueprints and building materials sheet for the buildings? I havent but I'm just curious what materials were used and to what specs. Most buildings of that height are built on a stacked design, with higher portions being smaller than the ones below. The Sears Tower is a good example, the Empire State as well.

Do you think the design company and the building companies would be so quiet if there was such compelling evidence that it wouldnt happen? Was I amazed that it fell like that? Yes. Do I believe that it was the governments idea? No. Do I think the government could have done more to prevent it? Maybe. It's easy to look back and say, "What about this?" But when people get these warning signs, that are so clear in hindsight (Va Tech), it's easy to point fingers.

What reason would the US government have for doing it? And dont say any bullshit about Iraq. Cause if that was it we would have already been 'attacked' by Iran.

Not too mention I dont ever remember al qaedda denying that they orchestrated the attack. Or the fact that your cousin, bin laden, even talks about the martyrs and how proud they made him.

I dont understand how you can look at a mountain of evidence, watch the actual video footage, and then still say the government did it.

What do you think would happen in this country if it was revealed that the government had fore warning, reliable fore warning, that such an attack was going to occur and did nothing to prevent it? Let alone the idea that it detonated thermal explosives that were preset in the WTC buildings prior to the incident?

I can live with the fact that you, and a lot of others, don't like the united States, and thats fine, but to say that as a country, our government, in an attempt to control the public performed these attacks is ridiculous.





DISORDER - would you say that two buildings built on Identical designs, to identical specifications, would react differently to almost identical attacks? Buildings that were essentially perfectly weighted to support themselves in winds up to and beyond 100mph? I will say that it was planned, but not by our government. Were other buildings around ground zero not damaged by the falling towers as they came down?

[Nursey]

I dont understand how you can look at a mountain of evidence, watch the actual video footage, and then still say the government did it.

I don't understand you can look at the MOUNTAIN of ANOMALIES...and the footage...yet still believe the government's version, unless you are extremely simple or in complete denial.

Here's a couple of videos you should watch:

FEMA & NIST's "Pancake Theory" is a Lie (http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=182632&fr=)

MIT engineer and research scientist Jeff King: what most likely happened (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8533904938803031452)

[Nursey]

Brain scans revealed that the politically biased are virtually addicted to lying to themselves to maintain their view that their party and leaders are flawless. People of both political sides are equally affected by bias. When viewing truth that doesn't suit our ideals, most of us deny it and go on as if it never happened. Mainly because most of us don't even understand the way bias affects us or that it makes us completely irrational.



Hold on I have not watched the video but are you actually saying that this is a Republican conspiracy? ;D

Huh!? Go and lie down in a dark corner Joe. You're getting a little overexcited.

[Nursey]

Y. professor thinks bombs, not planes, toppled WTC (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635160132,00.html)
By Elaine Jarvik

The physics of 9/11 — including how fast and symmetrically one of the World Trade Center buildings fell — prove that official explanations of the collapses are wrong, says a Brigham Young University physics professor.
In fact, it's likely that there were "pre-positioned explosives" in all three buildings at ground zero, says Steven E. Jones.
In a paper posted online Tuesday and accepted for peer-reviewed publication next year, Jones adds his voice to those of previous skeptics, including the authors of the Web site www.wtc7.net, whose research Jones quotes. Jones' article can be found at www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html.
"It is quite plausible that explosives were pre-planted in all three (WTC) buildings," BYU physics professor Steven E. Jones says. (Stuart Johnson, Deseret Morning News)
Stuart Johnson, Deseret Morning News
"It is quite plausible that explosives were pre-planted in all three (WTC) buildings," BYU physics professor Steven E. Jones says.
Jones, who conducts research in fusion and solar energy at BYU, is calling for an independent, international scientific investigation "guided not by politicized notions and constraints but rather by observations and calculations.
"It is quite plausible that explosives were pre-planted in all three buildings and set off after the two plane crashes — which were actually a diversion tactic," he writes. "Muslims are (probably) not to blame for bringing down the WTC buildings after all," Jones writes.
As for speculation about who might have planted the explosives, Jones said, "I don't usually go there. There's no point in doing that until we do the scientific investigation."
Previous investigations, including those of FEMA, the 9/11 Commission and NIST (the National Institutes of Standards and Technology), ignore the physics and chemistry of what happened on Sept. 11, 2001, to the Twin Towers and the 47-story building known as WTC 7, he says. The official explanation — that fires caused structural damage that caused the buildings to collapse — can't be backed up by either testing or history, he says.
Jones acknowledges that there have been "junk science" conspiracy theories about what happened on 9/11, but "the explosive demolition hypothesis better satisfies tests of repeatability and parsimony and therefore is not 'junk science.' "
In a 9,000-word article that Jones says will be published in the book "The Hidden History of 9/11," by Elsevier, Jones offers these arguments:

• The three buildings collapsed nearly symmetrically, falling down into their footprints, a phenomenon associated with "controlled demolition" — and even then it's very difficult, he says. "Why would terrorists undertake straight-down collapses of WTC-7 and the Towers when 'toppling over' falls would require much less work and would do much more damage in downtown Manhattan?" Jones asks. "And where would they obtain the necessary skills and access to the buildings for a symmetrical implosion anyway? The 'symmetry data' emphasized here, along with other data, provide strong evidence for an 'inside' job."

• No steel-frame building, before or after the WTC buildings, has ever collapsed due to fire. But explosives can effectively sever steel columns, he says.

• WTC 7, which was not hit by hijacked planes, collapsed in 6.6 seconds, just .6 of a second longer than it would take an object dropped from the roof to hit the ground. "Where is the delay that must be expected due to conservation of momentum, one of the foundational laws of physics?" he asks. "That is, as upper-falling floors strike lower floors — and intact steel support columns — the fall must be significantly impeded by the impacted mass. . . . How do the upper floors fall so quickly, then, and still conserve momentum in the collapsing buildings?" The paradox, he says, "is easily resolved by the explosive demolition hypothesis, whereby explosives quickly removed lower-floor material, including steel support columns, and allow near free-fall-speed collapses." These observations were not analyzed by FEMA, NIST nor the 9/11 Commission, he says.

• With non-explosive-caused collapse there would typically be a piling up of shattering concrete. But most of the material in the towers was converted to flour-like powder while the buildings were falling, he says. "How can we understand this strange behavior, without explosives? Remarkable, amazing — and demanding scrutiny since the U.S. government-funded reports failed to analyze this phenomenon."

• Horizontal puffs of smoke, known as squibs, were observed proceeding up the side the building, a phenomenon common when pre-positioned explosives are used to demolish buildings, he says.

• Steel supports were "partly evaporated," but it would require temperatures near 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit to evaporate steel — and neither office materials nor diesel fuel can generate temperatures that hot. Fires caused by jet fuel from the hijacked planes lasted at most a few minutes, and office material fires would burn out within about 20 minutes in any given location, he says.

• Molten metal found in the debris of the World Trade Center may have been the result of a high-temperature reaction of a commonly used explosive such as thermite, he says. Buildings not felled by explosives "have insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal," Jones says.

• Multiple loud explosions in rapid sequence were reported by numerous observers in and near the towers, and these explosions occurred far below the region where the planes struck, he says.

Jones says he became interested in the physics of the WTC collapse after attending a talk last spring given by a woman who had had a near-death experience. The woman mentioned in passing that "if you think the World Trade Center buildings came down just due to fire, you have a lot of surprises ahead of you," Jones remembers, at which point "everyone around me started applauding."
Following several months of study, he presented his findings at a talk at BYU in September.
Jones says he would like the government to release 6,899 photographs and 6,977 segments of video footage for "independent scrutiny." He would also like to analyze a small sample of the molten metal found at Ground Zero.

[Nursey]

Using logic to counter 911 non-thinkers (http://www.rense.com/general74/illog.htm)

1. A building constructed over a highly sensitive, highly dangerous, highly expensive industrial site will be engineered and constructed that much stronger. Logical and rational, right? WTC-7 was engineered to be stronger, not weaker, than other buildings surrounding it, simply because it enclosed an electrical power station. But WTC-7 fell at near free fall speed. Logical deduction would conclude building 7 was purposely demolished at the end of the day on September 11, 2001, most likely to destroy evidence of arson and to clear the WTC site entirely.

2. Fuel fires burn intensely for short periods of time. Fuel fires also burn at well-known scientific temperatures. Scientifically, and thus logically, fuel fires cannot melt steel, which requires blast furnace conditions. Melted pools of steel were discovered, observed and recorded in the debris of three steel skyscrapers long after September 11, 2001. Logically then, fuel fires alone did not destroy the World Trade Center. Logically then, some other, far more powerful substance that could melt steel must have.

3. Passengers on commercial jets are required to check in at the desk and present their ticket and boarding pass. No passenger is allowed to board a major commercial carrier without first being logged onto a computer today. This list of passengers is called a flight manifest. This list of passengers is available to airline personnel within minutes. Logically then, the names of ALL hijackers should have appeared in the mainstream media hours (and days) after the flights crashed. They did not. Either there never were any hijackers or they boarded through the complicity of airline personnel, thus indicating a greater conspiracy. Logical.

4. When the chief of security of one government gives $100,000 to an alleged terrorist mastermind, and then meets with the security heads of the government to be attacked on the exact day of the attack, logically, some complicity is suspected. In the days before September 11, 2001 the head of Pakistani Intelligence, General Mahmoud Ahmed, wired $100,000 to the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta. Ahmed then attended breakfast on the morning of 9-11 with Porter Goss, the head of the House Intelligence Committee (and the next head of the CIA) and Florida Senator Bob Graham. Coincidentally, Florida was home base to most of the alleged hijackers. According to the FBI, Indian Intelligence and several press reports, General Mahmoud Ahmad, the alleged "money-man" (to use the FBI expression), allegedly ordered the bank transfer of $100,000 to the accused 9/11 ring-leader, Mohamed Atta, and then met on the morning of the attack with a trio of US lawmakers and top intelligence insiders, Bob Graham, Porter Goss and Jon Kyl for a friendly breakfast. What exactly did they discuss? Logically then, one could conclude a huge conflict of interests. Logically one could conclude a vast government conspiracy. As if to confirm a government conspiracy between the two security states, $8 billion in US aid was funneled to Pakistan between 2002 and 2006, ostensibly to fight the war on terror. No word where that $100,000 came from (US taxpayers?), money that was wired to mastermind Atta to attack America.

5. Airplane parts are easily traceable. Airplane parts are stamped with serial numbers. Machined airplane parts are made to exact specifications. Logically an aviation expert could take any large, machined part from any of the 911 attack sites and say, yes or no, this part originated from a Boeing 757. Or did NOT originate from a Boeing 757, as Jon Carlson claims. Scientific study of the engine parts alone could have demolished any and all 911 conspiracies. Logical, correct? But because no such investigations were permitted or conducted, a huge government conspiracy appears likely. Logically then, one could conclude the conspirators had something to hide.

I have noted only FIVE suspicious anomalies. Dozens of other examples exist. For example the disappearance of the black boxes from the WTC. While first responders claimed the black boxes were found, the government denies it. Since most of the WTC debris was sifted and sorted (or melted), anyone could logically conclude the government had something to hide. Anyone could logically conclude, without too much effort, that 911 was an inside job and continues to be the greatest unsolved crime in American history.

[Nursey]

Not too mention I dont ever remember al qaedda denying that they orchestrated the attack.


FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11” (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)

[Nursey]

Not too mention I dont ever remember al qaedda denying that they orchestrated the attack.


Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/)

[phatboy]

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec9.pdf









I saw bin laden in that eminem video too.......

[ucicare]

Not too mention I dont ever remember al qaedda denying that they orchestrated the attack.


FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11” (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)


I guess we can rule out the video tape of him personally taking credit for it and saying that he planned it, right?

[Disorder]

I don't understand how people can be so oblivious, it boggles the mind. ???

[pimpchichi]

it's patriotism and allegiance.. it's been drummed in since birth... also not wanting to believe helps...

kindof like granny not wanting to believe little jimmy is a viscious animal abusing baby-raper.. even when the evidence and willing confession has been laid out there..


oh and hating brown people comes easily :)

[phatboy]

it's patriotism and allegiance.. it's been drummed in since birth... also not wanting to believe helps...

kindof like granny not wanting to believe little jimmy is a viscious animal abusing baby-raper.. even when the evidence and willing confession has been laid out there..


oh and hating brown people comes easily :)




They are more like urine color. Brown would be more like African.

I am sure that if I really wanted to waste my time, I could locate a whole bunch of sources on the internet, which noone has their own agenda on the internet, and produce piles of 'evidence' located to prove it was not the 'gubment' as you would have us believe. But Charlie Sheen said it was so, so it must be. But I am sure getting 3rd hand evidence of what someone thinks is good enough for some.

AND NO ONE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION. WHY?

What does the government have to gain by killing over 3000 of it's own citizens?

I dont want to hear the BS about "Its a war for oil" cause that is BS.

W wanted to finish his daddies war.....BS

To invade privacy with Homeland Security.......I think anyone living in a country that can follow a soccer 'hooligan' from the stadium to the suburbs has no room to say 'invasion of privacy.

So that leave us with:

We had some new weapons we wanted to test out.

Or maybe, just maybe

It was that radical islamics hate America so much that they would do anything, including killing themselves, to attack us. Kinda like the little korean kid that was upset at the "Rich Kids" and wanted to kill them. I guess our years of Fried Chicken, Collard Greens, Pecan Pie and Sweet Tea have driven those simple minded enough to be talked into killing themselves for someone elses ideas. If killing "infadels" and becoming a martyr is the fastest way to meet allah, why hasnt bin laden done it? Why wouldnt the leaders be the first inline? How much of a sheep do you have to be to not ask, "Hey why havent you 'crossed over' yet? Since it is so great..."

[Disorder]

They killed 3000 people to scare the public into thinking there was a serious threat, so they could push with their pre-planned military operation smoothly, which was already ready to go, they just needed the signal and the 'reason'

Forces are converging on Iran now, then we will get another 'scare', like the sailors thing tried to be and then they will have a good excuse.

Iran knows whats up, its being pushed into a corner and I think is at least trying to play a bit fair, but America is not playing fair.

It is about oil in one respect, but its also about tactical placement in that region, there's just no other reason why a nation would take these consequtive bordered regions, unless it wants something long term done with it.

[phatboy]

USS Cole, 93 WTC Bombing, Battle of Mogadishu (Blackhawk Down), 98 US Embassy Bombing, 9/11, do I need to go on? How many times do you take a punch before you swing back?

And now the Brits are in on the conspiracy?

Too many lips for there not to be a leak.

[Nursey]

AND NO ONE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION. WHY?

What does the government have to gain by killing over 3000 of it's own citizens?

"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this (9-11) disaster to carry out ... a new world order."
-- Gary Hart, former Colorado Senator, at a televised meeting organized by the CFR in Washington, D.C. Sept 14, 2001.

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
-- David Rockefeller

"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
— Herman Goering Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) commander at the Nuremberg Trials, 1946

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."
-- Adolf Hitler

"The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened".
-- Josef Stalin



The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical.

William Kristol is editor of The Weekly Standard, frequent Faux news pundant, as well as chairman and co-founder of the Project for the New American Century.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/williamkristolbio.htm

Here is what the wars in the middle east are really about, straight from the horses mouth:



What is the war about? I ask. Kristol replies that at one level it is the war that George Bush is talking about: a war against a brutal regime that has in its possession weapons of mass destruction. But at a deeper level it is a greater war, for the shaping of a new Middle East. It is a war that is intended to change the political culture of the entire region. Because what happened on September 11, 2001, Kristol says, is that the Americans looked around and saw that the world is not what they thought it was. The world is a dangerous place. Therefore the Americans looked for a doctrine that would enable them to cope with this dangerous world. And the only doctrine they found was the neoconservative one.

That doctrine maintains that the problem with the Middle East is the absence of democracy and of freedom. It follows that the only way to block people like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden is to disseminate democracy and freedom. To change radically the cultural and political dynamics that creates such people. And the way to fight the chaos is to create a new world order that will be based on freedom and human rights - and to be ready to use force in order to consolidate this new world. So that, really, is what the war is about. It is being fought to consolidate a new world order, to create a new Middle East.
[.....]

Thomas Friedman:
Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, (Thomas) Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.
link (http://www.grailwerk.com/docs/haaretzdaily01.htm)


Too many lips for there not to be a leak.


But there are...numerous leaks (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/230904_whistleblowers.html), though they are immediately ruled out by people like you who, when faced with such info, say that the whole thing is too insane to even consider. But now that, after much debate you can no longer deny that we are in fact bringing up a whole range of perfectly rational, valid points that back up our argument...you look for something else from some other angle to throw in the path to keep the disturbing implications at bay from your safe, familiar bubble? Anything but face facts. Really, it doesn't matter how compelling a case is made, you refuse to even hear it and so keep continually shifting the goal posts.

I am sure that if I really wanted to waste my time, I could locate a whole bunch of sources on the internet, which noone has their own agenda on the internet, and produce piles of 'evidence' located to prove it was not the 'gubment' as you would have us believe.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/stickman.gif
I think you've wasted quite enough time doing that already haven't you? Culminating in this thinly masked admittance of defeat. You've just had enough of your arguments steamrolled to know it's time to bail out with some utterly crap excuse. So, it's a waste of time investigating further because you already, like, KNOW the 'gubment' didn't do it, so that's, like, the case closed? Yeah, scurry off. Find some hole to plunge your head into.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7504/blinderscv8.jpg

But Charlie Sheen said it was so, so it must be.

You're right. We're just those people that are saying it because Charlie Sheen says it. Or Michael Moor. Or Rosie O' Donnell. Even though we pre-empted them all by years. Kindly refrain from projecting your own mindset onto us, moron. :-\

Now for the '2 minutes of hate':
Or maybe, just maybe

It was that radical islamics hate America so much that they would do anything, including killing themselves, to attack us. Kinda like the little korean kid that was upset at the "Rich Kids" and wanted to kill them. I guess our years of Fried Chicken, Collard Greens, Pecan Pie and Sweet Tea have driven those simple minded enough to be talked into killing themselves for someone elses ideas. If killing "infadels" and becoming a martyr is the fastest way to meet allah, why hasnt bin laden done it? Why wouldnt the leaders be the first inline? How much of a sheep do you have to be to not ask, "Hey why havent you 'crossed over' yet? Since it is so great..."

Wow. You sure is smarter than a fifth grader, phatty! Genius, even.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/can.jpg

[pimpchichi]

Why wouldnt the leaders be the first inline?

i think perhaps you've misled yourself..
that day 4 years ago when you saw your president on that carrier making that epic speech.. he wasn't strictly in king leonidas mode..
though it is the nearest he's come to 'real soldierin' ;)

[Joeslogic]

At least Alec Baldwin (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/0419_baldwin.mp3) agrees with you Nursey I guess that (http://www.tmz.com/2007/04/19/alec-baldwins-threatening-message-to-daughter/) gives you some comfort.

[pimpchichi]

there are millions of assholes in the world joe... sooner or later assholes are gonna share your viewpoints

[Joeslogic]

Yeah but you have to be a particular kind of asshole to be protected. Imune to ridicule. Have microphones put in your face for your Anti-American opinion.

[Nursey]

i thought americans didn't do jealousy, they do aspiration!

[Michelle]

I'd like someone to explain the coincidence that all the biggest pot smoker dumbass tards I know are the only ones suggesting that 9-11 was a conspiracy by the government. Now that is a coincidence. I can only imagine what would happen if these morons were in medicine. They would be killing people right and left with their half baked or wholly "baked" drug induced damaged sub par to begin with brain dysfunctional paranoia unable to sort out any kind of truth from fiction to make any kind of logical decisions or recommendations

[pimpchichi]

i thought americans didn't do jealousy, they do aspiration!


that was me

i don't smoke pot

[Michelle]

i thought americans didn't do jealousy, they do aspiration!


that was me

i don't smoke pot


Ever have your head bouced off a telephone poll? What was your GPA in college if you attended college? Ever make the dean's list? Ever flunk any classes? Ever been hospitalized for paranoid schizophrenia, ever been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder? Ever use any drugs like ectasy? Ever abuse cocaine? Ever use any injectable illicit drugs? Did your mother drink extensively while pregnant with you? Ever been diagnosed with ADHD? Were you born full term? Have you ever had withdrawal symptoms from alcohol abuse? Have you ever been given a "rally bag" at a hospital? Have you ever been advised by a carerr guidance counselor that you are best suited for the service industry such as McDonalds?

[Joeslogic]

i thought americans didn't do jealousy, they do aspiration!


that was me

i don't smoke pot


Ever have your head bouced off a telephone poll? What was your GPA in college if you attended college? Ever make the dean's list? Ever flunk any classes? Ever been hospitalized for paranoid schizophrenia, ever been diagnosed with a bipolar disorder? Ever use any drugs like ectasy? Ever abuse cocaine? Ever use any injectable illicit drugs? Did your mother drink extensively while pregnant with you? Ever been diagnosed with ADHD? Were you born full term? Have you ever had withdrawal symptoms from alcohol abuse? Have you ever been given a "rally bag" at a hospital? Have you ever been advised by a carerr guidance counselor that you are best suited for the service industry such as McDonalds?


;D

[Nursey]

So you refus ta adreass my piont than.... I du nat blame you it's a lousing battle. Attack the messenger then an act of desperation.

Quite.

[Joeslogic]

ar you saying "Quite." like a librearian wouud say? "Shh bea quite poeple ar readun"?

or or yuw sayin "Quite." like my momma would say when i wuz in teb bathtub. "Now joe quite playin wit yore submarine an making it send up te parioscope"

or area you saying "Quite." like "my unacle Vern he an quite rite"

[phatboy]

ar you saying "Quite." like a librearian wouud say? "Shh bea quite poeple ar readun"?

or or yuw sayin "Quite." like my momma would say when i wuz in teb bathtub. "Now joe quite playin wit yore submarine an making it send up te parioscope"

or area you saying "Quite." like "my unacle Vern he an quite rite"


Joe, it is "Shhhh be quiet" for the librarian.

"Quit playin wit yo submarine"

and Yes, "Uncle Vern aint quite right" :D

And I think Dan made a very valid point. The people I have heard ranting about a consiracy are usually the dregs of society. The outcast. Those who say absurd things for attantion. And the pot heads who spend way too much time online looking at photoshopped images of 'pieces' of a missle, instead of realizing there were hundreds of people on those planes that actually still have loved ones who miss them.

[pimpchichi]

i think that says more about the bars you frequent than anything else, frankly.

[phatboy]

I dont go to bars, like you dont smoke pot.

[pimpchichi]

i don't smoke marijuana because it made me lethargic and didn't do my chest much good.. i gave up being a pothead many years ago.. i do have the very occasional toke in social situations.. but only to be polite.. i don't like getting stoned all that much.. it ruins the enjoyment of my drink

you don't go to bars because you're barred from most of them, and -all- the titty ones.. you gave up drinking in social situations many years ago.. because you embarrassed the people who invited you.. you prefer to drink at home alone anyway.. nobody judges you there

[pimpchichi]

RIGHT ROUND BABY RIGHT ROUND LIKE A SCRATCHED RECORD BABY RIGHT ROUND ROUND ROUND :D


hmm actually barry you read much more into my post than was there.. whilst agreeing with what i'd said.. you came to a conclusion, whereas i hadn't!

perhaps you just wanted to lash out.. after all.. nursey had posted one of those articles that make your blood boil and your little fisties clench and wanna pound!!.. FATTY SMASH!

just so you know.. i have just the right amount of control over my life to be happy and content.. and i don't smoke weed :D ..

perhaps you should take whatever meds you take that act as a 'chill pill' and.. err.. don't call me tomorrow berry..




Attack the messenger then an act of desperation.

[Nursey]

"We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth…. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not..? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it might cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know.. it — now." Patrick Henry, 1775.

[phatboy]

i don't smoke marijuana because it made me lethargic and didn't do my chest much good.. i gave up being a pothead many years ago.. i do have the very occasional toke in social situations.. but only to be polite.. i don't like getting stoned all that much.. it ruins the enjoyment of my drink

you don't go to bars because you're barred from most of them, and -all- the titty ones.. you gave up drinking in social situations many years ago.. because you embarrassed the people who invited you.. you prefer to drink at home alone anyway.. nobody judges you there


No, I dont drink in bars because I am a dad, who spends time with his family. I drink when I am fishing, or playing golf.

I havent been banned from any bars, and the one here arent titty bars, they actually get totally naked, so it's just strip clubs.

I do drink in some social situations, like when I am in Athens, GA on a fall afternoon with 92,000 of my closest friends.

I dont drink at home, unless of course I am doing some yardwork, and I might have a beer or two..........

of course I'm sure that doesnt compare to sitting around your 'flat' drinking while it is raining outside. While you and your 'mates' play who has the biggest 'whanka' in the 'lou'. . . . .

[Nursey]

::) Blah blah blah. So anyway...i hope you can sleep well at night in the knowledge that there are such glaring inconsistencies between the official version that you subscribe to and fundamental laws of physics now that it has been clearly outlined by such 'dregs of society' as Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones...

Jones, who conducts research in fusion and solar energy at BYU, is calling for an independent, international scientific investigation "guided not by politicized notions and constraints but rather by observations and calculations."

...goddamn pot-smoker dumbass tard! >:(

[Michelle]

::) Blah blah blah. So anyway...i hope you can sleep well at night in the knowledge that there are such glaring inconsistencies between the official version that you subscribe to and fundamental laws of physics now that it has been clearly outlined by such 'dregs of society' as Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones...

Jones, who conducts research in fusion and solar energy at BYU, is calling for an independent, international scientific investigation "guided not by politicized notions and constraints but rather by observations and calculations."

...goddamn pot-smoker dumbass tard! >:(



Jones has been interviewed by mainstream news sources and has made a number of public appearances, including the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Symposium, which was held in Los Angeles on June 24-June 25, 2006.[11] While Jones has urged caution in drawing conclusions,[12] his public comments have suggested a considerable degree of certainty about both the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and the culpability of rogue agents working within the U.S. government.[13] In an article published on September 5, 2006, Jones told The Guardian that the attacks were an "inside job".[14] His name is often mentioned in reporting about 9/11 conspiracy theories.[15]

The paper has been the center of controversy both for its content and its claims to scientific rigor. [16][17] Jones' early critics included members of BYU's engineering faculty[18] and shortly after he made his views public, the BYU College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' work. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners", and expressed doubts about whether they had been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."[19]

Jones has always maintained that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication, though it has never been published in an independent peer-reviewed journal. On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave.[20] The university cited its concern about the "increasingly speculative and accusatory nature" of Jones' work and the fact it had "not been published in appropriate scientific venues" as reasons for putting him under review.[21] The review was supposed to be three-tiered, with the school's administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the Physics Department involved.[22] This action drew criticism from the American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both organizations are long time critics of BYU's record on academic freedom.[23]

As someone who has done research for 4 years prior to medical school (related to the first hand transplant from cadaver to amputee in the US) I can tell you the fact that his findings weren't published in a peer review journal put it on the level of dung. There are all kinds of crackpot studies that never get published. Even the ones that do get published often wind up being bullshit. You can't believe a study unless it is performed and reviewed and accepted by peers and then it's findings backed up by other separte researchers from unaffiliated groups. I would suspect that he may have decided to retire early on a book deal. There is a tendency for researchers to twist findings and try to garner money through sensationalism and outright falsifications. It happens all the time.

[Michelle]

As someone who has done research for 4 years prior to medical school (related to the first hand transplant from cadaver to amputee in the US) I can tell you the fact that his findings weren't published in a peer review journal put it on the level of dung. There are all kinds of crackpot studies that never get published. Even the ones that do get published often wind up being bullshit. You can't believe a study unless it is performed and reviewed and accepted by peers and then it's findings backed up by other separte researchers from unaffiliated groups. I would suspect that he may have decided to