Landis says his testosterone is naturally high

[Joeslogic]

I'm posting this here because I think hormones are very relevant to psychological diagnosis and possibly for some expertise to back up my whole hearted belief after seeing Landis video that he is correct.

Just my layman’s opinion personally I have not had experience with any steroid taking. But through observing I have concluded that production over all of hormones cannot be accurately measures as to a norm of what one individual should be. I'm fairly certain that personally I have high recorded levels of hormones myself. Throughout jr High and High school athletics came easy for me. While other guys would hit the Gym religiously I could lie around all summer then a few weeks of workout would quickly put me above my peers.

I think that this is the reason that some guys are more aggressive than others. I have spent a lifetime keeping my temper in check but I think have in general more aggressive ideas and reaction to adversity on the average.

I also think the scientific community fails to study the phenomena of hormones from the proper scientific perspective. Possibly because most of the nerdy bookish scientific types are not willing to address their inferiority in this respect.

Landis convinced me. Those pansy ass French will forever be jaded by the fact that Americans kick their ass in their turf at their sport. It is like salt in a wound. They gain some satisfaction in the idea that they can at the least discredit the one who shamed them. And that is just wrong.

[diogenes]

At least you haven't blamed it on the "liberal media" yet.

[Joeslogic]

No it's those screwball liberal Frenchies! :P

[diogenes]

Ah, I should have picked up on that on my own.

[chester grape]

...I think that this is the reason that some guys are more aggressive than others. I have spent a lifetime keeping my temper in check but I think have in general more aggressive ideas and reaction to adversity on the average. ...

Yeah, blame it all on your "hormones". After all, women have been doing it for years, right? :roll:

[Joeslogic]

Heh been married for 17 years and Have seen it up close and personal they are not lying. Although I'll never admit that to my wife I tell her she just uses that excuse for a crutch and I'm still sticking to me guns on that one.

[phatboy]

I just tell mine she's bipolar.

[Joeslogic]

You can get away with that but you better choose your timing wisely. :wink:

[phatboy]

Im a light sleeper.

[Joeslogic]

I don’t know there seems from what I understand some compelling evidence against Landis. But somehow it does not all add up. First there is the common sense logic Landis knew he would be tested why would he jeopardize himself? Also the circumstantial logic is very weak. Endurance sports tend to be that with that many individuals that are in extremely good shape the margins are real tight they are simply pushing their bodies to the extreme for a human. But there is that magical second wind phenomena that can occur I ran cross country and are familure with it. All of a sudden just when you think you got no more it kicks in and you break away. It really is a surreal feeling when it does happen the proverbial "runners high". What would truly be a shame would be if an innocent Mennonite guy who had probably never taken an aspirin or drank a caffeinated soda much less inject a hormone. (for the record I’m stating a worst case scenario and do not know him personally or of his character) Was caught up in some dubious sabotage.

His video was fairly convincing for me. And I’d say that what he said is true about anyone of those previous segments of the race has a Cinderella story to be told about an exemplarily performance put on by a cyclist.

[phatboy]

I am slightly confused. The report I saw, right after it broke, was that his testosterone wasnt high. Apparently there are two types or something. There is a low and a high, kind of like BP. That his high was normal, just that his low, was really low. He did admit to drinking a couple of beers the night before his historic run was made, and they do test them at almost every stage.

If he had taken any hormones it wouldnt have had time to work, you have to take them over time, its not a miracle juice that you can take before you fight a bully and have it miraculously give you super human abilities.

[Joeslogic]

Yeah those are all points I have read some of them conflicting to the point. I'm not comfortable with any specific source. The secrecy game is out there like don’t divulge any information except in the case of a counter strike to exploit what ever is said by the Landis camp. If I were him I would be scarce at this point and simply not say a thing except proclaim my innocence.

It just does not feel right. Something not adding up.

[chester grape]

He did admit to drinking a couple of beers the night before his historic run was made...

Yeah that's what I'd be doing when I have seven and a half minutes to make up on the field, drinking a few cold ones.

[Joeslogic]

When I ran cross country in highschool we used to load up on beer the night before. The excuse was that beer is loaded with carbs.

[smurfslappa]

Yeah, that was high school Joe. Professional athletes know better, but who knows? Only the cyclist.

[Joeslogic]

Those races were huge 100 plus people and although I was on the team long distance endurance was not my forte but I always finished in the top qtr. Beer and all.

[Ferine]

As of this morning, he tested positive again. He'll be out.

[Joeslogic]

Yeah I saw that. I talked to a Dr I was working with and asked his opinion he is pretty much convinced the results are accurate. But he did concur with my question that it made no since as a mega dose of testosterone at that point in the race would not have and anything more than a psychological effect.

Theory (probably the common theory) he was desperate and willing to try anything figuring that this is his one and only chance before the hip has to be worked on and his career is over. Either way get caught and loose or simply loose. There is the possibility he could win and not get caught.

This theory assumes he was naive enough and misguided by someone equally naive.

Other theory is that he is surprised as the rest that there would be a foreign substance accounted for in his test and he had been sabotaged. (looked like a clean test bottle but it had residue in it before he ever pissed)

I may be the naive one but I think his video was convincing. I tend to lean harder on the second theory.

The third ridiculous theory would be that there was an orchestrated effort by Landis as well as his coach, medical adviser, etc. Like I said I've never taken roids but I have studied them and there would be no gain and in his niche sport knowledge of the use of roids is common no self respecting trainer, coach, team member would advise such a stupid move and with no real possibility of gain except psychological at best.

[Joeslogic]

Landis speaks out still defending his innocence.

http://wm.usatoday-na-central.edgestreams.net/wm.usatoday-na-central/audio/06/060806_landis02.wma

Accuses the organization of an agenda.

http://wm.usatoday-na-central.edgestreams.net/wm.usatoday-na-central/audio/06/060806_landis02.wma

The Artical from USA Today

By Sal Ruibal, USA TODAY
Embattled Tour de France champion Floyd Landis says he's been treated unfairly by cycling's international governing body and can't properly defend himself against charges he used illegal doping products to win the race.
In his first interview after his second, or "B" urine sample was reported Saturday to be positive for synthetic testosterone and an out-of-limits testosterone-to-epitestosterone level, Landis lashed out at officials of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) and the World Anti-Doping Agency for giving information on his case to the media while not providing him with reports on his test results.

The results of his initial test were made public July 27.

"I just got the information on the 'A' sample a day and half ago," he said. "I had to find out about the 'B' from reading it in the media."

Landis also pointed out that American sprinter Justin Gatlin's positive "A" test for an illegal testosterone ratio was not announced by track and field officials for three months, "while I had only two days to react to mine. (UCI head) Pat McQuaid said he had to release mine before the lab leaked it."

He also pointed out that his remarkable comeback performance on Stage 17 — the stage where his positive tests came from — was not an anomaly, but his doping tests were.

"I put in more than 20,000 kilometers of training for the Tour. I won the Tour of California, Paris-Nice and the Tour de Georgia. I was tested eight times at the Tour (de France); four times before that stage and three times after, including three blood tests. Only one came back positive.

"Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone just once; it doesn't work that way."

The 30-year-old racer says the biggest mistake he did make was responding to media reports as they surfaced, giving the impression he was coming up with new excuses daily.

"I've been catching a lot of grief in the press: 'Floyd has a new excuse, a new reason for what happened.' This is a situation where I'm forced to defend myself in the media. It would never have happened if UCI and WADA had followed their own rules," Landis said.

"There's some kind of agenda there," he said wearily. "I just don't know what it is."

Describing himself as "reasonable and logical," Landis refuses to see himself as a victim in the case and says there's "zero chance" someone from his Phonak team either inadvertently or purposely gave him synthetic testosterone.

Landis will undergo hip replacement surgery in about two weeks, then prepare for a hearing before the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency sometime in the next month. He has not received notice from USADA.

"Something bad happened to me," he says, "but bicycle racing is the most beautiful sport in the world. I want to remain part of it."

He longs to ride his bike but says that is impossible because of the media crush around his home.

"I need to (ride), believe me," he said. "That will be the best day of the week if that happens."

[Joeslogic]

This is the most inspiring Landis story I have read so far it does not blindly defend him really but does give a look at the rebellious character and what drives the man. Then questions weather he did in deed make a rather stupid deal with the devil during that infamous stage of the race. Do You Like My Socks? its a must read (http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/08/06/224839.php)

[chester grape]

Is Landis like some kind of religious deity to you?

[Joeslogic]

I just think with all the other distractions going on this particular story is one of the most interesting. I'm curious about it and anxious to find out the true story. I guess it’s the conspiracy theorist in me but something smells fishy about it. If he was sabotaged then its one of the saddest sports stories of the decade in my opinion.

[chester grape]

Conversely, I find it hard to believe that any athlete - especially in the most tainted sports like sprinting, weightlifting and cycling - isn't on performance enhancing drugs.

[Checkmate]

Conversely, I find it hard to believe that any athlete - especially in the most tainted sports like sprinting, weightlifting and cycling - isn't on performance enhancing drugs.

I'm going to weigh in here, as I am probably the only person that has actually taken these substances to increase my performance and don't feel bad for doing so.

The results showed Landis had a synthetic testosterone in his system. The direct benefit to taking this before stage 17 would be the boost in red blood cell production that would enable his muslces to work harder and longer and recover faster then normally, bosting his performace, greatly.

Most athlete's are given specific doses by the doctors, and infact the testing usually only shows postive results for anabolics, performance enhancers that are known to the world doping agency. Because there would be no benefit to developing a performance enhancing substance that can't be caught, and then given to your athlete with the confidence that you won't get caught. What Landis didn't count on was the labs ability to look for testosterone decay, synthetic testosterone decay's differently from natural testosterone. Good work on the labs part.

I would be more interested in seeing athletes that aren't on performance enhancers. Because if the general public don't think for one second that athlete's won't do everything they can to win, you don't know what it means to be an athlete.

[chester grape]

...I would be more interested in seeing athletes that aren't on performance enhancers. Because if the general public don't think for one second that athlete's won't do everything they can to win, you don't know what it means to be an athlete.

Sorry mate, and I'm not being funny here, but I don't understand that last paragraph there at all.

I, as an example of Joe Public, DO think that athletes will do all they can to win. Including taking performance enhancers.

Is that your point? Or am I missing it?

[Checkmate]

...I would be more interested in seeing athletes that aren't on performance enhancers. Because if the general public don't think for one second that athlete's won't do everything they can to win, you don't know what it means to be an athlete.

Sorry mate, and I'm not being funny here, but I don't understand that last paragraph there at all.

I, as an example of Joe Public, DO think that athletes will do all they can to win. Including taking performance enhancers.

Is that your point? Or am I missing it?

Yup that was the point Grapey, performance enhancers and steriods are part of the athlete's life, here is an article which only gives a glimpse into the wide world of performance enhancers.

http://www.lovingmiracles.com/nutrition_articles/designers_steroids.htm

[Ferine]

Yup that was the point Grapey, performance enhancers and steriods are part of the athlete's life, here is an article which only gives a glimpse into the wide world of performance enhancers.

http://www.lovingmiracles.com/nutrition_articles/designers_steroids.htm
Indeed. I can't wait to start shooting up my kids in middle school to prepare them for a successful career in athletics.

[phatboy]

I just think something fishy is going on. When he doesnt test positive on any other stage, but that one, it doesnt make sense. As far as drinking the beer, 7 and a half minutes behind, you dont really have a shot, have a good time drink some beers and roll out. Why not. There could be something to the Carbs, I dunno, but what I did read was that it would lower your low level testosterone.

Look at Barry Bonds, before the hearings on steroids in baseball he was hitting a homerun something like every 5 at bats, now????? Not too mention the fact that he looked like a crack head with geri curl in Pittsburg but when he gets to Cali he turns into a power hitter. Look at his annual homerun output. In Pitt he never hit over like 31 a season in San Fran he has never hit less than 35. Thats including the old park. Yea he wasnt juicing it up.....whatever.

[Joeslogic]

Look I played sports in high school and was really into health. Was a first class Physical Trainer in Marine Corps with my lowest score in 4 years of about 270 (highest possible is 300). My biggest problem was getting in that 18 min 3 mile. After I started riding a mountain bike into work the 7 miles through Fallbrook and the Naval Weapons station I jumped up 30 seconds in my time. Biking is a great cardio exercise. As for "Roids" as we called them that was late eighties I knew a few guys that used "Test" in sublingual form and also knew a couple guys that "Stacked" Deca and Durabalin oil based inject able. I was tempted to join in but was naturally at the top group of my peers without it so opted out. But back then I did a lot of research as I do anything I'm interested in. Terminology may have changed since then but then "Doping" was referring specifically to taking your blood in say pint size quantities over a period of time and freezing it then later thawing it and re-injecting it. Apparently I under stood this would increase your red blood cell count and ability to intake oxygen. I understood this to be common in the cycling world. I never knew of the pervasive use (beyond blood doping) in an endurance sport. Maybe I am misguided in my understanding maybe "Doping" as I understood it was an urban legend. I cannot image doing that myself. Landis did not seem to have any of the physical attributes that I am aware of for steroid users.

Checkmates point makes much since if he could have while under extreme stress of competition actually manipulated production of red blood cells "greatly effecting his performance" but that’s not what Dr.'s are telling me.

[Joeslogic]

18 of the 22 cyclists who were allegedly involved in the Spanish doping scandal have been found innocent.

They were done by the same French laboratory that tried to prove that Lance Armstrong had used an illegal substance in 1999. Armstrong won the resulting court case.

http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/More_Sport/0,,2-9-32_1980106,00.html

[phatboy]

I hate the fucking french. Fucking frog cocksuckers. They didnt say the GIs were on performance enhancing drugs when we bailed their pussy asses out in WWII did they?

You know if I didnt think I would get some french on my ass I would wipe with them.

[Joeslogic]

What is American racers boycotted the race for two years then Landis came in and kicked their asses again? :lol:

To bad we don't have that kind of solidarity amongst the American teams hell it seems the jury is already in and 90 percent have assumed guilt.

[Schmed]

What is American racers boycotted the race for two years then Landis came in and kicked their asses again? :lol:

To bad we don't have that kind of solidarity amongst the American teams hell it seems the jury is already in and 90 percent have assumed guilt.


Floyd Landis inspirational braclets...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/Schmed/Floyd-Landis-R.jpg

[Joeslogic]

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/craig_medred/story/8074640p-7967426c.html

[Joeslogic]

New updates looks like the so called conclusive test results are dubious to say the least.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=2424488

Looks like some of Lances former teamates have admitted to "blood doping" as I talked about earlier this is traditionally what doping in the endurance sport world means it's not hte same as testosterone with has little to zero effect in a race like the tour de france (http://news.google.com/news?ned=us&ncl=http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory%3Fid%3D2424488&hl=en)