Agent Orange, Desert Storm illness (bullshit) psych trauma?

[Joeslogic]

The Agent Orange bullshit still goes on today. Desert Storm opened up the opportunity for a huge "they used experimental drugs on us" or "their suppressing the truth" conspiracy. Next in line is Psychological Trauma bullshit.

The talking points are laid out the seed is planted. Veterans will be informed of the huge payout rewards in disability funds if they can just do one simple thing. Complain about psychological trauma. Oprah will have a very compelling show dedicated to getting to the ugly and little talked about truth. How dare the government try to deny! Of the millions of veterans just like any population they will find some of those exceptional ones that have resorted to a life or being a transient committing petty crimes to support a crack habit. Get him on the camera to tell the people that the government did him wrong, especially since him being a medal of honor recipient and all. As the shit gets deeper Smurf starts fanatically surfing for the facts to prove its all true. Nursey and Smiley compile a list of "Facts" to use as compelling points of argument in how terrible America is to its own people. (http://www.foodconsumer.org/777/8/Report_More_war_veterans_need_combat_stress_aid.sh tml)

The lie is exploited for about 30 years or so milked for as much as it can get. In the mean time for the next 30 or so years just let one individual try to argue against the validity of the "psychological stress" claim. If its only one then before it all takes hold let me be the first to say BULLSHIT!

[diogenes]

Most of the "Gulf War Syndrome" vets were exposed to DU. Tell me that's bull shit when they have a cancer rate that's 50 times the average.

[Joeslogic]

That's bull shit when they say the cancer rate is 50 times the average.

There I said it more or less.

[ucicare]

I do beleive that PTSD is more prevalent now.

Simple reason - people today are more soft and sensitive.

My Grandfather's generation survived a depression, kicked Hitlers. ass, and came back home and screwed everything that moved creating the baby boom. It never occurred to those men to have a "traumatic" disorder. They didn't have time for it. Those men were tough as nails.

By comparision, men today are wimps.


Barry

[Joeslogic]

True and what make them wimps are government social programs. That and a change in the social structure. kids are protected little punks these days they grow up that way and they know it. They want so bad to be identified in some respectable manner they make movies of them selves fighting online now days. Problem is if you watch the videos you see that they A: fight like girls and B: have no code of honor. We have a lot of good men going into the military and then there are a certain percentage of shitbags like in any group. There will logically be a certain amount of persons who have a legitimate stress problem. And there will be multiple times more shitbags looking for a handout in the form of disability status. The left will be all too eager to exploit this.

I’m just pointing out the predictability of it all before it happens. When the media has this new revelation to inform us about. Remember I predicted this revelation of bullshit propaganda.

[Joeslogic]

The Army and Air Force referred 23 percent of those at risk, while the Navy sent in 18 percent and the Marines about 15 percent of war veterans with stress disorder for a medical referral or treatment.


Does anyone see what is wrong with those numbers besides me? I have a military perspective to see this from I can see a very telling point to be made with these statistics.

[smiles]

barry i don’t know if i agree that your grandfathers generation didn't have mental disorders, i just believe they were disguised better... and manifested in ways such as spousal abuse, child abuse, alcoholism etc. that’s not to say that prescription drugs aren’t being over-prescribed for all sorts of bogus ailments

and joe: don't confuse americas problems with those of the world.... there are countries that are FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR more socialist where kids don’t go around beating up homeless people to death so perhaps it's time you look elsewhere for the cause k? blaiming all of US ailments on some massive liberal conspiracy makes you a different kind of smurf, but a smurf indeed

[Joeslogic]

there are countries that are FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR more socialist where kids don’t go around beating up homeless people to death

I'll agree to that. Socialism is not the only problem we have here. It goes back to the way punk ass kids are raised these days. I do not blame that wholly on socialism either. Possibly more to blame on commercialism, or something along that nature. It’s more like a personality cult issue its cool to be extreme or shocking.

I point the finger at commercialism and Howard Stern.

Let me say Smiley that while I have an extreme disdain for socialism I will say that the intentions of the founders of the ideology were good intentions. I believe it is a failed system. I believe that people who believe in the system do so to such an extent that whatever means to achieve there end is a righteous means in their mind at least.

You are the victim here you are conditioned to believe and react to my posts as an “us verses them” or “good verses bad” reaction. You it seems actually believe that anyone who is not a liberal is a hate mongering racist, bigot, greedy, asshole of a person. This is simply not true.

[XerxesX]

This one dude that has works for some of USAs best friends in espionage played the blamegame over on the iraqi side. That ailments could well be due to chemical warhead scuds. There was a scenario where a hundred soldiers died in what was described as an accident.

There would have been many reasons to hide an iraqui sarin attack :idea:

[Joeslogic]

Yeah it’s a telling thing that troops go to Iraq where biological, chemical, and nuclear testing was conducted under extremely armature conditions. And any assumption by the left and the gullible people is a dark U.S. conspiracy. It’s laughable. They really need to get their heads out their asses and stop going through life with blinders on.

[XerxesX]

And depleted uranium. OK ! USA did a lot there at that time. Testing vaccines and all. But a week in the kuwaiti oilfurnaces ? That cant be healthy either.

One part depleted uranium
One part Saddami sarin shit
One part burning kuwaiti wells
and a sprinkeling of emotional stress.

[Joeslogic]

That I must admit is true so damn refreshing to have a bit of levity and moderation in this discussion.

[smiles]

that would be true xerx if most of the soldiers that are being treated fro cancer due to supposed DU exposure were marines....... most of the cases i have read about were people aboard ships that would load the shit etc..... how do u account for them?

joe: it's not me vs you, or me vs conservatives.... it's me vs what i don't believe is right..... i don’t know what being a liberal means... or a conservative from a political standpoint... i only know what my beliefs are and if your beliefs oppose my beliefs i'd like to know for what reasons, reasons i question.... don't put words in my mouth or say that i've been conditioned by anyone because i could just say the same thing back to you which essentialy leads us to, "i know you are but what am i"

[Joeslogic]

Point made and point taken it would not be useful to point fingers back and forth.

However I do observe and see that it surely is no coincidence that your belief system seems to be one that walks lockstep in time with the socialist ideology prevalent in the higher educational systems of North America.

An observation simply maybe not totally accurate but one that could be viewed constructively by your self. I think it is healthy to question your ideology from time to time and gauge where your values are coming from. I know I do. I myself am guilty of talking things personally its best not to though it fogs your perception.

Where are these stats you refer to? I was a Desert Storm Marine and have reason to believe that some of the locations I went to were of a great deal of suspicion with regards to environmental issues. Marines as a general rule are more hard core believers in the honest, integrity, and honor of what they to. This is not always the case. In the less disciplined units such as field service support units I guarantee you will see a higher level of people applying for some sort of disability. This is encouraged by the anti-war left this historically has been the case and is always exploited.

[ucicare]

barry i don’t know if i agree that your grandfathers generation didn't have mental disorders, i just believe they were disguised better... and manifested in ways such as spousal abuse, child abuse, alcoholism etc. that’s not to say that prescription drugs aren’t being over-prescribed for all sorts of bogus ailments



That's actually a very good point, Smiles. I agree in part, but I still think that they were mentally tougher than we are today, on an average. Their methods of dealing with stress, (as you mentioned) were a little more acceptable at the time. (That doesn't mean that it was right, BTW.)

My GF was mean as a snake, but never to his family. He treated us great. He would kick a stranger's ass in a second, though.


Barry

[DangerousDan]

According to the VA psychiatrists when I was doing my in patient psych rotation the PTSD awareness crap started with the Vietnam vets where there were major campaigns to "raise the awareness". Congress passed bills giving big money payouts to vets so they are essentially recieving disability pay that some of them now actually live on with a couple thousand or some number like that per month. I think there is the impetus for the psychiatrists because of the money and the patients because of the money to talk about the need for treatment. However, in reality if someone has PTSD the last thing they want to do is talk about anything having to do with the psych trauma they recieved. That is why you never heard any WWII vets seeking help for PTSD. There is no money in it and if they reallly have PTSD they almost never want to talk about it.

[XerxesX]

Hey Barry

My Grandfather's generation survived a depression, kicked Hitlers. ass, and came back home and screwed everything that moved creating the baby boom. It never occurred to those men to have a "traumatic" disorder. They didn't have time for it. Those men were tough as nails.

By comparision, men today are wimps.


Men of today are consumers, that put in a few hours extra work in front of the tv to learn what they shall consume. ( Like facial care and qute cars with matching colours. The latest totally wimped out scream seems to be pimp my car.

My mother never saw her father. He died before she was born. One war to much, and very macho, ( for being gay, ( Like many nazis))

But !
Societal success seems to lead the population to decrease their numbers. Unsuccessfull tribes on the other hand, flourish ! Skinny cows and skinny people and skinny dogs and hard , hard realities that soften, whenever an angel from the wolrd of wonders and technology decends.

Hm! That everincreasing energytimebomb does not help at all. Cold fusion? :lol:

[diogenes]

"For those who refuse to think, it is best to at least rearrange ones prejudices from time to time." Mark Twain

It's funny that "conservatives" label "liberals" as people who refuse to think or change their opinion, and then label them flip-floppers.

[XerxesX]

That thinking is then based opn the good of all mankind and a spreading wealthgrid that takes care of poverty while including environmental conserns ?
Woheyheyhey Lets thinkalot. Lets thinkalotalikethemthoughts.

I met Jesus today. He smiled, not at me, but at the accuresr in his world there in the painting. We went to the movies and watched MI3. Cutre movie, but both me and J know that thats not what they do. He is just the butchest Cassidy. The shroud of Turin ha sstood model and what a pair of crying eyes. Not a republicxan bone in his body. Thet man would have spelt the end of any empure.
Seriously. 100 pesos for a good copy.

[diogenes]

Is there a sane bone in your body?

[XerxesX]

That would be the stirrup sir ! I will soon have it dug out SIR ! :lol:

But beautiful painting soothe me 8)

[Joeslogic]

Dio in order to understand Xerx you really need to watch the 1965 movie "Beach Blanket Bingo". When you see the Indian Chief with the crazy quotes then you will understand.

The movie is a classic that you must see anyways.

[Joeslogic]

Once again Dangerous Dan got it right and it illistrates what I'm saying it is a problem that is more or less created by the left system that then uses it as a tool of propaganda. The information is missrepresented.

[XerxesX]

Indians dont have chiefs, they have Maharayas. Its the Staff that has chiefs, or at least chefs. The chiefs are good. They have , like, chief interrests, but chefs are allso nice. Maharayas I dont like. To many letters.

[Joeslogic]

Watch the movie its fun to watch anyways but when you see the Indian Chief you will likely laugh yopur ass off.

[XerxesX]

And mongols are fun too. The best crusaders were mongols. When Hulagu Khan sacked Baghdad and killed EVERYBODY. He was a nestorian christian, along with his prime general Kitbukha. Richard Lionheart massacred some 5000 jews and arabs and christians when he entered Jerusalem. Hulagus boys killed between 100 000 and 1000 000. If not for succesional strife we might have had a christian mongol empire stretching from Yakutsk to the pillars of Hercules. Thats the Pacific to the atlatnit crossing the eurasian continent. Such a monstrosity would not have lasted of course.

[Joeslogic]

:shock:

[XerxesX]

:P
The nestorians were the indian christians; the church founded by the apostle thomas. One must adimt that the conversions of Temujim and Torugene, Hulagu and Kitbukha might have been for pure practical reasons. The same reasons that compelled Hulagus brother to become muslim, ( like most of his turkmen fighters ) to become muslem infidel heathen scum. Hiho Silver