Great Deluge

[smurfslappa]

Everybody talks about it. There was a lot of light before it happened. Then there was a lot of water. After it happened, people had trouble lighting fires. So what happened? A star went nova, possibly Saturn, and ejected an assload of hydrogen which then combined with the oxygen in our oxygen-rich atmosphere to make an assload of water. It sure ate up a lot of oxygen, which is why the people had trouble lighting fires after it happened.

~Fin

[chester grape]

Hydrogen and oxygen combining creates a shitload of heat. Consider how the zeppelin exploded.

So, among the many logical inconsistencies of your ... erm ... "theory", you're suggesting that the entire planet was consumed in a zeppelin-like fireball?

[smurfslappa]

No no no, the hydrogen was coming in from space, so it would have enveloped our oxygen-rich Earth, but not immediately mixed in with it. Also the charge difference might of played a part in keeping them separate. But as the oxygen began mixing with the hydrogen in the higher elevations of our atmosphere, it made the humongous rain clouds our ancestors from all over the globe came to remember.

[chester grape]

Look, if a star went nova and it was anywhere near where Saturn is in relation to the Earth, we'd be vapour. Not to mention that if this happened during any period of human history, there'd be emphatic evidence of it still around.

You post some crazy shit, man. This is up there with the best.

[Lomotil]

This whole thread is just great entertainment... :lol:

[SPOooOn]

When exactly was this? . . And was dwaine anywhere near.. He could starve an entire country from air with one bowel-movement

[chester grape]

Found this on a theological forum (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-62771.html), posted by "The Phantom". Is that you, smurf, or have you and he been drinking from the same contaminated source?

The debate on the Great Flood has lacked a plausible mechanism for the depositing of the amounts of water written and reported in the ancient accounts. A method must be found in the available cosmological sources to accomplish this, in this case something that would have affected or occurred first in the solar system, then to specific planetary bodies such as our own.
Of one thing we are certain; water is a molecule that is created when two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen are combined at the atomic level. A fast and sure method of accomplishing this is the igniting of hydrogen, a flammable gas, in the mere presence of oxygen; catalyzation, a task easily and readily available by lab experiment and in nature.
The scanned galaxies are abundant in hydrogen; our planet has large quantities of available oxygen. But how to provide the massive amounts of hydrogen, twice the needed oxygen, to amass oceans of water in this manner is what really has eluded the issue.
Spectrograph's of small stars such as our own Yellow Dwarf sun suggests that the thermo-nuclear fuel for such stars may be seawater itself. Our own sun burns yellow in the visible spectrum because of the presence of sodium in the thermo nuclear burn. Squeezing seawater under tremendous gravity and containing the fuel within the gravity field, without escape, may be the very fuel and process of long lived stars, hydrogen being the major component.
But how then to release the fuel from its gravity bounds to free up the hydrogen for our deluge scenario?Our own sun obviously still contains and burns, without apparent interruption, its own fuel, so therefore cannot be a ready source of free hydrogen.
And how then to bring it to within the atmosphere of an existing planet to accomplish the ultimate task of combining with other elements, namely oxygen?
For this we must turn to one of natures most spectacular and violent performances, the Nova.

A Nova of the type needed to provide the tremendous amounts of free hydrogen available to catalyze water on this planet must satisfy two conditions at once; it must be brief enough and just far enough away in proximity to this planet not to destroy us outright, yet close enough and of sufficient duration to expel the necessary elemental material to our orbital path.
But where could such an event have occurred and where the are the remains of such a violent event? We are dealing with a long past occurrence, and so must rely on astronomical and cosmological detective work to reveal the source of the event. This must also include historical observation and records of human accounts of such an event. A Nova of this magnitude and proximity would have been seen and reported if occurring within the historical period of humankind.
It is beginning to be understood that stars do not, as previously assumed, burn hottest at their core. In fact, evidence is mounting that the core does not burn at all, but is rather solid and the thermo-nuclear fire occurs on the surface of this core. Gravity is the key component to the ignition and sustained burn of the star; mass is the determining factor as to its size and intensity in relation to other stars.
A minimum mass is therefore necessary to sustain a long, continuous existence; masses below this minimum will not contain the outward pressure of the thermo-nuclear burn and result in a brief period of reaction ending with a violent explosive 'death'.
In short a Nova is the 'swan song' of a star no longer having, or conversely never having achieved, the ability to maintain its' own violent existence.
We have a candidate for just such a 'failed' star in the remnant core now circling an outer orbit as the planet Saturn in this solar system, long associated as the 'water bearer' in ancient astrology and mythology.
Tribal man, both ancient and current, has the tendency of both revering and fearing events utterly strange and fearful to him, not being able to understand what it is that is happening so far removed from his daily routine and experience. Such events are more likely to be deified and put in the realm of the mysterious and mystical until such time as his fear subsides and his ability to learn and understand highly complicated principals of nature reach a high degree. Such is what happened when the Nova occurred briefly several thousand years ago.
As a proto-star, Saturn was far enough removed from us and below the necessary mass needed to sustain continuous thermo-nuclear burn. It did, however, reach such a point of mass as to briefly ignite its' elemental gaseous exterior and flash briefly into existence for about seven days earth rotation. The only evidence for this is historical accounts passed down to us by the ancients, describing the blast and continuing to recall the event through rituals and celebrations to this day.
Just such an event would have resulted in huge quantities of the free hydrogen necessary for the creation of water by catalyzation. An ever expanding nebula of hydrogen, remnant fuel of the failed star, would eventually reach our orbit as well as others, thus satisfying the requirement for hydrogen in quantities sufficient enough for deluging a planet beyond the source point. Oxygen already present, ignition was one frictional static discharge away from a torrent through catalyzation at high atmospheric elevation.
Another scenario, plausible but to which I have less favor, is that the described Nova expelled fully catalyzed water which eventually reached our orbit and deluged the planet directly, owing that it was the point source fuel of the proto-star to begin with.

The only way to confirm such a fantastic process as this, short of finding as yet unknown detailed records or close examinations of the presumed core of the Nova, will be in observing it once again, in a distant galaxy on another solar system, witnessed under the watchful eye of advanced telescopy, then relating this newly observed event to our own past.

Interesting that even on a theological forum, this crackpot theory gets the short shrift it deserves. Even the converted aren't convinced by this one, smurf.

[Totalrecall1982]

Wow that made for an interesting read this morning.

[smurfslappa]

Interesting that even on a theological forum, this crackpot theory gets the short shrift it deserves. Even the converted aren't convinced by this one, smurf.

So I guess you suppose the great flood didn't happen at all? And what about all the light they saw right before the flood happened, or the trouble lighting fires?

[chester grape]

So I guess you suppose the great flood didn't happen at all? And what about all the light they saw right before the flood happened, or the trouble lighting fires?

Most civilizations have a myth or fable about a great flood. Plato, for example, talked of the city of Atlantis. This general concurrence of stories from multiple cultures would suggest some kind of massive rise in water levels happened.

The most plausible explanation, and the one backed by the most scientific evidence, is a land strike by a comet or large meteor during the last Ice Age.

[ucicare]

Hey, I just stuck my nose in for a quick sniff.........hummmm.......smells like bullshit.


Barry

[chester grape]

Hey, I just stuck my nose in for a quick sniff.........hummmm.......smells like bullshit.


Barry

Let me guess, you prefer the "God made it happen" theory?

[smurfslappa]

I bet he does. But even God has his ways of performing miracles, Barry, if that's what you chose to believe.

[SPOooOn]

I bet he does. But even God has his ways of performing miracles, Barry, if that's what you chose to believe.

If thats what you believe.. he'll be the only one doing the miracles. .

[XerxesX]

Being compelled by mercy and all that. There have been major floods in human history. At times they have devastated whole cultures. The idea of a deluge as described ib the bible is ludicrous. A flooding of the whole of the land between the two floods happened. But the weak suspicion that the chitter at this blog comes from such that will then ask; "what two rivers".............

In pliocene the mediteranean was flooded after a breach in the herculean wall. ( Gibraltar )
8000 years ago the black sea was flooded by a breach in the landbridge at the bosporous. ( Creating the aryan migrations ).
3000 years ago. When Thera blew up and destroyed the minoan trading empire. ( The best candidate for atlantis ).


A few days ago I saw really strange weather here in Guate. Winds out of nowhere and a midlake creation of sudden storm, followed by gusts of rain.
The lightnings that came later
were weird.

[smurfslappa]

Strange weather? Excellent! But what about the great flood in the Hindu Religion? I think they'd be able to distinguish between a great flood and a really bad monsoon season...

[XerxesX]

But the floods will happen during monsoon or equivalent wet season anywhere. All the great sites of early civilisations; ( as defined by cities and hierarchies ), are in fertile floodplains.

That these stories merge during time is no wonder.

Just like gods merge, untill the notion that its just one G-d. ( One set of rules ).
Check out Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh epic poetry of the Sumerians. Thats our Noah !

[smurfslappa]

Or someone else who got word to prepare for the impending flood?

In the Chaldean story of the Deluge, as told by Berossos, Kronos (Saturn) disclosed to the king Xisuthros that a universal flood would begin on the 15th of the month Dasios. Abydenos says: “Kronos announced to Sisithros that a flood would pour from above.

There's also some other ancient stories, some Norse legend about everyone hopping in a chest and saving themselves from the flood. Either way though, everyone agrees the water was deeeeeep. Like you'd better by at the top of a mountain deep.

[XerxesX]

How about the flooding of the black sea ?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4168.asp

Utnapishtim alias Noah probably did the most daring dash ever. On a larger vessel , ( maybe prepped for taking on the indian ocean ). How far up the river this event takes place is interresting. If Utnapishtim is washed far at sea...............( Maybe all the way to africa ) ? The Gilgames-epos speaks of a great journey by sea to go to the abode of Utnapishtim. ( Who is granted eternal life by the gods, for his exploits ).

A cargo of animals would be a great way to stay alive. I am quite shore that its possible to backtrack such a journey :)

Read it: Its got the gift og life and the snake and all. Compare and be befuddled :wink:

[XerxesX]

One idea would be to look for signs of inland lakes in the mountainous region where the tigris and eufrat are born. A lake that at one point is caught of by glaciers. As the weather warms and the ice rots, eventually, a tropic deluge from the indian ocean, could breal the ice and combine a normal flooding with a disaster.

If this smart guy Noah, knew from some traveling relative, that the ice up there was rotten, and he saw the seasonal rains tearing away..................

The city-priests might not get it , though.......................

[XerxesX]

However, heres the enlightening contribution of the answersingenesis.org:

"If the Flood was local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it".

"Many historians (of many different religious persuasions—including atheistic) have shown that modern science started to flourish only in largely Christian Europe".

Nurseys cartoons would be suitable :lol:

[XerxesX]

Or as your spoky caldean friends say: That the king got notice !

[XerxesX]

And as the king is divine, the orders and the advice came from the celestial sphere aka G-d.

[MyNameMeansNothing]

You guys have far to much time to waste, personally i try to shower ever day. mossoon or shine tbh.

[MyNameMeansNothing]

btw you rock smurf, keep up ther erm good fight ;)

[chester grape]

btw you rock smurf, keep up ther erm good fight ;)

I knew I didn't like or respect you.

[diogenes]

That's because he sucks Smurf-phallus.

[chester grape]

I'd google "blue penis", but alas, I'm too drunk.

Just imagine it for me, OK?

[diogenes]

Are you really, wanna play "drink the beer" international edition?

[chester grape]

I've been playing for the last 8 hours. Where tf have you been?

[diogenes]

I've been at my place drinking beer for the last 3 hours. What are you drinking?

[Nursey]

Check out Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh epic poetry of the Sumerians. Thats our Noah !

Exactly.