Capital Punshiment

[TheGrimJesus]

In light of the Morales debacle in California, Is it about time we stop letting these things sit around for people to have a change of heart?

I mean you had two people on stand by to ease his pain and they both refused to do they jobs due to "ethics". Where were they to ease his victims pain? I mean being raped and stabbed to death could I don't know hurt just a bit.

But allowing these animals and yes I call them animals, sit on death row for 20 years is beyond anything I can think of. They sit there knowing they will die. Just get it over with. I say do them the next day before anyone can have a change of heart.

I don't care if facts come out later on, he had a trial he was found guilty by his peers. Case closed end of story. Its the same as OJ you can think he did it all you want. He was found not guilty by his peers there for he did not do jack.

As far as making it painless as possible, screw that noise. Light him on fire in the middle of town square put him out before he is about to die and let the family dump buckets of rubbing alcohol on his ass. Not one person on death row can sit with a straight face and tell me that they tried to make there victims last moments as painless as possible so why should there's be?

[smurfslappa]

Hell yeah, sentence them to death, take them out back the next day and put a single bullet through their head. Then charge the family for the bullet. If it's good enough for China it's good enough for me. I hate the long ass sitting time on death row too. We should do away with the lifers, too, I think.

[XerxesX]

Sometimes I just dont get the heat between the americans and the iranians. Sure thing. Americans like to party and iranians dont, but your legal juice goes in the same shaker, where its blended by the same set of moral deities.

[diogenes]

I would really like to see them stop calling it California Department of "Corrections". If they're going to execute people of give life sentences than they are not "correcting" anyone. Call it what it is, the way we used to. It's a penal system. As for the Morales debate, every fucking place I turn there are protesters. They stand around with the signs they had printed up, and they bitch. It seems their main argument is "Justice, not vengeance". I'd like to hear their definition of justice where a man gets to rape, torture, and stab a woman, but has the possibility of parole down the line. You don't rehabilitate from something like that. Those who have no value for life kill guards and other inmates. As for the execution portion I'd like to see them switch to nitrogen asphyxiation. Cleaner, cheaper, painless, they never even know it happened. They just go to sleep and die.

[chester grape]

I am against state-sanctioned murder in all its forms. Thanks.

[XerxesX]

The main beef I have with you deathpenalty is the same as with your liberal gun-laws. They do not give a better society.

Maybe one should kill criminals, bomb enemies back into the stoneage and go on a rampage of revenge everytime somebody does wrong against one.

The thing is that its counterproductive. The guns and the deathpenalties dont work. Dont you get it.

You nice american people do not deserve to slip down that slope were you end up stoning and amputating and begetting little mental monsters in your heads. Monsters that beget more monsters :evil: Why do you think you have all those gun-deaths. Because you are no good at shooting killers ? OikOik!

I forbid you to watch that awful female torquemada Nancy Grace, and only half an hour of NoSpinZone. We still like you, you know. Still..

[TheGrimJesus]

The main beef I have with you deathpenalty is the same as with your liberal gun-laws. They do not give a better society.

Maybe one should kill criminals, bomb enemies back into the stoneage and go on a rampage of revenge everytime somebody does wrong against one.

The thing is that its counterproductive. The guns and the deathpenalties dont work. Dont you get it.

You nice american people do not deserve to slip down that slope were you end up stoning and amputating and begetting little mental monsters in your heads. Monsters that beget more monsters :evil: Why do you think you have all those gun-deaths. Because you are no good at shooting killers ? OikOik!

I forbid you to watch that awful female torquemada Nancy Grace, and only half an hour of NoSpinZone. We still like you, you know. Still..

Gunz work, Arming the USA was the best thing the Founding Fathers did. I mean would you invade a country where you knew every man women and child is armed?

[Joeslogic]

Amen Dio preaches on brother!

Chester you should think of it as self preservation of the peaceful productive citizens by elimination of the violent counter productive, just in slow motion. Of course all of this slowness for the purpose of preventing mistakes.

[XerxesX]

Jesuswrote
Gunz work, Arming the USA was the best thing the Founding Fathers did. I mean would you invade a country where you knew every man women and child is armed?

Like Iraq ? You just shoot eachother up and get more violent all the time.

Joe wrote


Amen Dio preaches on brother!

Chester you should think of it as self preservation of the peaceful productive citizens by elimination of the violent counter productive, just in slow motion. Of course all of this slowness for the purpose of preventing mistakes.

Does not buy you protection: gets mudreres more desperate. In other countries you have them crying and calling the police themselves. Nobody shoots more of their own than americans. There is no correnpondence between guns and safety. I see the guns that guard carry on the streets down here in central-america. It does not convey safety. It makes an impression of civil-war disorder and clan-based "justice".

[Joeslogic]

Nobody shoots more of their own than americans.

I don't buy the propaganda numbers. I seriously doubt that statement.

[XerxesX]

It is still true. As for propaganda. "Guns dont kill" NRA(KKK)

[Joeslogic]

I've seen numbers that show outlawing guns increases knife crime. Or death by baseball bat. Also while a lot of gun deaths are righteous acts of self defense outlawing guns makes every gun death a crime weather of self defense or not. In countries where guns are illegal criminals still carry guns go figure that one out.

[XerxesX]

yes ! you can not ban guns in a country like Iraq, ( and probably parts of the states ).
It is still possible to move in another direction.

In countries where guns are illegal criminals still carry guns go figure that one out.

But you have less of an illegal gun-market and the tollerance for "packin" will be different. Somewhere a guy carrying a gun will be considered cool, other places he will be a looser and a dork.

I am all for hunting, and countries like Canada and Switzerland have the same gun per person ratio as in the state, but it is not for those John Wayne reasons.
They are either warmaterial or huntingequipment.
( And people dont kill as you savages do ) :cry:

I DONT want Europe to end up as the USA or those arabian countries.
(Full of weapons and deathpenalty and macho-symbolism. The diff is that USA is packed with fake blonds and the arabs pack their women away in mobile tents ). :?

[Joeslogic]

Xerx you state all the compelling arguments and I understand your position as well as where you are coming from. I do not begrudge you for taking that position one bit. But I respectfully have to disagree. As soon as you make one type of gun illegal then others simply follow. Next thing a deer rifle is a "sniper rifle" and a derringer carried for defense is an "easily concealed tool of crime" It all spirals down hill from there.

[chester grape]

Xerx you state all the compelling arguments and I understand your position as well as where you are coming from. I do not begrudge you for taking that position one bit. But I respectfully have to disagree. As soon as you make one type of gun illegal then others simply follow. Next thing a deer rifle is a "sniper rifle" and a derringer carried for defense is an "easily concealed tool of crime" It all spirals down hill from there.

Bullshit. We have tightly controlled gun laws in Australia, yet we also have excellent sporting shooting clubs, farmers use rifles for feral animal control, etc.

True, we are not allowed to carry pistols along the street, concealed or otherwise. But our gun-related death rate, per head of population, is less than 1% of the United States'.

[Ferine]

Bullshit. We have tightly controlled gun laws in Australia, yet we also have excellent sporting shooting clubs, farmers use rifles for feral animal control, etc.

True, we are not allowed to carry pistols along the street, concealed or otherwise. But our gun-related death rate, per head of population, is less than 1% of the United States'.
Getting a concealed carry permit in Maryland is a pain in the ass...

[smiles]

Bullshit. We have tightly controlled gun laws in Australia, yet we also have excellent sporting shooting clubs, farmers use rifles for feral animal control, etc.

True, we are not allowed to carry pistols along the street, concealed or otherwise. But our gun-related death rate, per head of population, is less than 1% of the United States'.
Getting a concealed carry permit in Maryland is a pain in the ass...


dude when you said you'd have a .45 waiting for me the next time i tried to dryhump you in public i thought you were just flirting..... give a nigga a break fa real

[Joeslogic]

Chester as for me I'm not willing to take the chance right now.

Ferine you make me feel as if there is hope.

[TheGrimJesus]

Xerx you state all the compelling arguments and I understand your position as well as where you are coming from. I do not begrudge you for taking that position one bit. But I respectfully have to disagree. As soon as you make one type of gun illegal then others simply follow. Next thing a deer rifle is a "sniper rifle" and a derringer carried for defense is an "easily concealed tool of crime" It all spirals down hill from there.

Bullshit. We have tightly controlled gun laws in Australia, yet we also have excellent sporting shooting clubs, farmers use rifles for feral animal control, etc.

True, we are not allowed to carry pistols along the street, concealed or otherwise. But our gun-related death rate, per head of population, is less than 1% of the United States'.

Yeah well it's not the wild west here either Chester my friend. Sure you can get a permit to carry a firearm. You pay out the fucking nose to get this piece of paper. You do all the test blah blah.

Then the day comes you have your great piece of toliet paper. Because every damn place you go you can not bring a firearm into the building. So your gun sits in your car. So if your getting robbed you have to ask him to stop while you go to your car to get your gun so you can shoot the retarded monkey.

Great fucking deal they get your money for the permit then its of no use because you can not wear the gun anywhere.

Thats how America works, They fuck you coming and going.

[chester grape]

Then the day comes you have your great piece of toliet paper. Because every damn place you go you can not bring a firearm into the building. So your gun sits in your car.

So if you steal a car, you get a free gun?

Gee, I wonder how so many pieces get into the wrong hands.

[Ferine]

Chester as for me I'm not willing to take the chance right now.

Ferine you make me feel as if there is hope.
?

I work alot at night. I grew up around guns. I see no reason not to be able to protect myself if need be. Unfortunately there are just as many irresponsible carriers as there are responsible...

I don't carry a .45 smiles, but I am starting to chafe.

[TheGrimJesus]

Chester as for me I'm not willing to take the chance right now.

Ferine you make me feel as if there is hope.
?

I work alot at night. I grew up around guns. I see no reason not to be able to protect myself if need be. Unfortunately there are just as many irresponsible carriers as there are responsible...

I don't carry a .45 smiles, but I am starting to chafe.

.357 snub is my poison.

[smiles]

Chester as for me I'm not willing to take the chance right now.

Ferine you make me feel as if there is hope.
?

I work alot at night. I grew up around guns. I see no reason not to be able to protect myself if need be. Unfortunately there are just as many irresponsible carriers as there are responsible...

I don't carry a .45 smiles, but I am starting to chafe.


*puts on trackpants*

[diogenes]

Either side of the fence on gun laws is going to have problems. I think it should be individual choice though. Any government intervention is going to make things difficult, and it doesn't solve anything.

[chester grape]

Either side of the fence on gun laws is going to have problems. I think it should be individual choice though. Any government intervention is going to make things difficult, and it doesn't solve anything.

Yeah. And the same for nuclear warheads too, right?

[Joeslogic]

Chester you are obviously passionate about your belief and I believe your hearts in the right place. But I am not as passive a person and do not feel that police or government have any authority to, ability to, responsibility to, or will to protect me as an individual.

Trust me I'm one of the good guys and will not use my firearm will not hurt you in any way.

[chester grape]

Chester you are obviously passionate about your belief and I believe your hearts in the right place. But I am not as passive a person and do not feel that police or government have any authority to, ability to, responsibility to, or will to protect me as an individual.

Trust me I'm one of the good guys and will not use my firearm will not hurt you in any way.

Don't patronise me you stupid fuck. I have not come to a position on any issue, let me assure you, with any consideration of you whatsoever.

[diogenes]

Chester wrote...

Yeah. And the same for nuclear warheads too, right?

That's hardly a valid argument. Nuclear warheads by definition are genocidal weapons, capable of wiping out 100,000+ people per use. A gun is a valid means of deterence and defense. I actually don't own any firearms, but should someone choose to own a firearm that's up to them if they feel it is necessary to defend themselves. The government is incapable of protecting most people most of the time.

[Joeslogic]

Must have been a mistake on your part Chesty

Joeslogic wrote:
Chester you are obviously passionate about your belief and I believe your hearts in the right place. But I am not as passive a person and do not feel that police or government have any authority to, ability to, responsibility to, or will to protect me as an individual.

Trust me I'm one of the good guys and will not use my firearm will not hurt you in any way.


Don't patronise me you stupid fuck. I have not come to a position on any issue, let me assure you, with any consideration of you whatsoever.


I was patronizing you in the "Time for the attacks on the validity of media reports" thread

Here I was simply feeling compassionate towards your well intended ignorance. And if I had any intention of trying to form your view then I would not choose a strategy of patronizing would I?

But you’re your unwarranted attack on my intentions shows a definite lack of character on your part.

[chester grape]

Chester wrote...

Yeah. And the same for nuclear warheads too, right?

That's hardly a valid argument. Nuclear warheads by definition are genocidal weapons, capable of wiping out 100,000+ people per use. A gun is a valid means of deterence and defense. I actually don't own any firearms, but should someone choose to own a firearm that's up to them if they feel it is necessary to defend themselves. The government is incapable of protecting most people most of the time.

Oh, I see. So we draw the line where, exactly? Bazookas? Tanks? Hand grenades? Conventional warheads?

[chester grape]

Here I was simply feeling compassionate towards your well intended ignorance.

So disagreeing with your position makes me ignorant, huh? Just the kind of self-centred viewpoint I'd unfortunately expected.

[diogenes]

We're talking about personal use of firearms, not instruments of war. Give me a valid reason why someone would need a bazooka, rhetorical, and I'll draw the line behind it. I can think of many valid uses for personal firearms, and I'm not talking a Barrett .50cal. The argument doesn't invalidate my point, which is it should be personal choice whether or not you carry a firearm to defend yourself.

[Joeslogic]

Well if we look at the second amendment to the constitution of the United States. We should consider that the founding fathers of our country having just taken arms against there own governing body that at the time being the English Monarchy certainly intended that the right to bear arms and to form an organized militia were for the benefit of rising against ones own government in the event that the government eroded into a rogue police state.

Bazookas, tanks, and hand grenades would be helpful in this respect.

But in the end cooler heads prevail. That’s what the current laws are regulating that people are not out there with bazookas. At least not legal citizens that is back in my earlier hell raising years I met a few drug dealers that bragged about and liked to show off their guns and hand grenades were fairly common although you never herd of anyone using them.

[Joeslogic]

Joeslogic wrote:
Here I was simply feeling compassionate towards your well intended ignorance.


So disagreeing with your position makes me ignorant, huh? Just the kind of self-centred viewpoint I'd unfortunately expected.


Look Chesty I do not understand why you’re being so testy. You righteously call me a "stupid fuck" then pretend you’re offended that I claimed you were ignorant on this point. Something by the way I would have avoided saying had I not been called a stupid fuck. Go figure that one out? It's you that’s offensive not me. But that is a tactic I always see from people with left leaning views. Their right and offended that I do not agree.

Hell I'm ignorant about a lot of things. Take any given lotto winning number for instance I cannot say I know any of them I am therefore ignorant. But then aren’t we all?

[Joeslogic]

http://www.anncoulter.com/photos/gun.jpg

Hot blonds and guns got to love it here in America.

[diogenes]

I'd rather see it under her chin.

[XerxesX]

Ok. So you are passionate about your guns. And then thats fine. Cars kill a lot of people too. If MrGrapes % cant teach you, nothing can, and then you should be "free" to go clutching firearms at sidewalks and believe that this makes you safer.
The cost is about 30 000 dead a year. If you were a civilised country, you could easily save 25 000 a year and still shoot up more people than anybody else with compulsory primary school. The problem is that your scewered morals and phony logic of protection ( That might have been correct against plainsindians and cougars, in the days ),Yes ! Your phony logic spreads through youthculture into civilised countries. And our crimerates look more and more american. Nobody likes that. Not even americans.

[diogenes]

If you look at the crime rates though the most gun murders occur in areas of intense urban density. I live about 10 miles from Santa Ana, California, which for a while was the murder capital of the country. Coincidentally, Santa Ana also has the highest population density per square mile of any city in the country. Coincidence, I think not. The fact that Europes population density is going up, through immigration instead of high birth rates, could be a possible reason that shooting deaths are going up in those countries as well. Any time you have poor people more or less stacked on top of each other you're going to have crime, because people get desperate. Blaming that on guns is like blaming cars for automotive fatalities.

[chester grape]

Pure and unadulterated bullshit. Inner Sydney has high population density, and while old people die in their homes unnoticed for six months at a time, we have very, very few gun deaths.

London - high density, few deaths. Tokyo - extrememly high density, practically no deaths.

Wake up.

[XerxesX]

Please Dio ! Do you know the size of Western-Europe at all ?
Look at London and count the dead. Find another theory.

( Sorry didnt see you Chester )

But the fact is that what you guys are saying about needing pistols and semiautomatics. Or other obscure theories. They dont fit at all !

It could be Smurfslapper-logic would have some clout:

That "somebody" had an interest in it. But how he would make the NRA go together with his international conspiracy confounds me :?

[diogenes]

I hadn't researched the position very much, I tend to stay away from mainstream media, and I don't own any firearms. That being said I've done some research and now reverse my position. Personal possesion of firearms, be they legal or illegal, is a dangerous and un-necessary activity.

These are the statistics I'm using to make this decision. Check them out, they're official CDC stats. http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

[chester grape]

Excellent detective work, Dio. This statistic, in particular, is compelling:

FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).

Gee, seems like Nursey was right ...

...But then there are the shining miracles (http://fuglyforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=107093&highlight=sometimes+make+valid+points#107093).

[diogenes]

Good times, everyonce in awhile I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong. By switching my position and saying that I'm right again. :?

[TheGrimJesus]

Who cares we are Americans, we are good at killing people. Get over it.

[smurfslappa]

I think that says something about the people, not the gun laws.

[diogenes]

Then we should outlaw idiots, see if that isn't more effective.

[TheGrimJesus]

Then we should outlaw idiots, see if that isn't more effective.

Yeah right, Then who would entertain us, Run the Goverment?

[smurfslappa]

Haha, outlaw idiots. It's a no-win situation, Diogenes. But don't fret, somethings gonna happen here real soon, that'll take care of everything.

[TheGrimJesus]

At which time you will be glad there are people like me roaming the earth.

[smurfslappa]

Jesus?

[diogenes]

I think Grim is actually the guy driving the bus.

[chester grape]

I think that says something about the people, not the gun laws.

57 people in Australia ... 11,789 people in the United States ?

Shit, smurf, we're not THAT different.

[TheGrimJesus]

I think that says something about the people, not the gun laws.

57 people in Australia ... 11,789 people in the United States ?

Shit, smurf, we're not THAT different.

yeah if there actually still in 1998........

[smurfslappa]

Yes, we are. We got all sorts of messed up people, violent sorts and we all think we're the shit. There's a lot of good people, but the ideas that have spread, the thoughts and all the things we've seen on TV and all the shitty parenting will surface when this depression hits. We'll be an example for the world, I think that's what our role is in this apocalypse.

[TheGrimJesus]

Now I'll level with you, the day is coming. On that day the people with the Boom sticks will go all out and kill each other leaving fewer people with a lot more boom sticks.

Which leaves all you gun control nuts working at the many whore houses and other such things I will open up.

[chester grape]

Yes, we are. We got all sorts of messed up people, violent sorts and we all think we're the shit. There's a lot of good people, but the ideas that have spread, the thoughts and all the things we've seen on TV and all the shitty parenting will surface when this depression hits. We'll be an example for the world, I think that's what our role is in this apocalypse.

No we're not. We listen to your music, watch your movies and TV shows, and fight your wars. We also have a bunch of fucked up idiots and shit parents.

The difference is, when one of those idiots gets angry, there are no guns readily at hand. So they use fists or knives, neither of which are as regularly lethal.

[smurfslappa]

No Grim, those people left over with the many boom sticks won't need them, because they'll have all the antennae arrays that can direct lightning bolts or prevent rain, and lasers, and planes and access to oil and yeah maybe they'll need a few boom sticks here and there. But those antennaes... those are the deal sealers.

The white man and the yellow man and the black man and all those inbetween will all come together to rule over their races. Maybe no black man, it seems like everyone hates them, but who knows?

[diogenes]

Newer statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

[smurfslappa]

The difference is, when one of those idiots gets angry, there are no guns readily at hand. So they use fists or knives, neither of which are as regularly lethal.

Well maybe so then Chester, but stabbing is much more personal and harder to accomplish, and when this day I speak of comes, ours will be a much more fucked up place to live than yours.

[Totalrecall1982]

Your clemency is denied !