Nursey & Chester's Israel thread

[chester grape]

Prompted by a suggestion from Nursey here (http://fuglyforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=118479&highlight=#118479) ...

Same story, different location.

So it's the end of WWII, and the Holocaust has given the US administration the emotional artillery it needs to actually get international support for the dispossession of an entire group of Arab peoples. (Thank you, Adolf.) Those people, of course, are the Palestinians.

The US gets (with remarkable foresight, given the intellects that now inhabit the Oval Office) the "democratic" presence it knows it will need in the Middle Eastern area, given that it's the only region with any decent oil supplies.

And anyone who questions the fairness or legitimacy of any of this is anti-Semetic (i.e. racist), or a communist (a less fashionable insult these days, but powerful in its time).

Why's it the same story? Because it's once again about the colonisation of land occupied by the poor, for the ultimate benefit of the rich and powerful. Religion is merely the cloak it's all shrouded in.

Land and class. As always, it's land and class.

[SPOooOn]

So this, if I interpret correctly, is the reason for the US policing every far off shithole country except Isreal.. [/i]

[chester grape]

Bingo.

[Nursey]

That was an excellent opening post, Chester! And nice title...very homely. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/sasmokin.gif

[SPOooOn]

Bingo.

But why keep it up all this time, Israel is losing influence fast, and everybody feels sorry for the poor Palestinians. Why not give the Palestinians a leg up "for all the time they were abused by those nasty Israelites" ? That'll go over great with the general public, and hey presto, instantly renewed hold on the middle east. .

[chester grape]

Bingo.

But why keep it up all this time, Israel is losing influence fast, and everybody feels sorry for the poor Palestinians. Why not give the Palestinians a leg up "for all the time they were abused by those nasty Israelites" ? That'll go over great with the general public, and hey presto, instantly renewed hold on the middle east. .

You're joking, right?

For one, the rich US supporters of Israel (who must at all time be appeased) would never wear it. Handing over land "owned" by the rich to a bunch of poor rag-heads will never do.

Secondly, the poor in the US would never wear it, because they've been force-fed a steady diet of anti-Arab sentiment in various forms since the early 50s. (And ramped up even further since the end of the Cold War.)

And thirdly, for some reason I don't understand, it just never works that way. The rich take the land off the poor. That's how it works. That's it.

(As an aside, consider even the worldwide boom in real estate throughout most Western countries. Poor people who own their homes see these outrageous land prices, sell up to investors, then rent elsewhere. Sure, they get a cash injection, but their land is gone and the rich now have it. The rich take the land off the poor. End of story.)

[SPOooOn]

This forum really is too depressing for me . . i think i'll go back to general mayhem and make a couple of fart jokes to make me feel better. .

[diogenes]

I'm inclined to agree with you about this Chester. Israel never should have been formed in the first place. I'm going to use my Jersey analogy again. If Germany had won WWII, and occupied the United States, how would Americans have reacted if they kicked everyone out of Jersey and gave it to all the leftover communists? That would have worked out much better than Israel has. Israel has no right to that land. In addition the concept of "owning" land in the west was only introduced about 300 years ago. The concept of owning your own land, and one of Thomas Jeffersons main goals in the framework of the constitution, was that you would have your own land, that you could work, and provide for yourself. No one else took the fruits of your labor off of your hands. This stems from John Locke's concept of land ownership. You didn't "own" land unless if you had broken that land, with your own labor, and turned it into "something". This concept has been lost again on the west. There's still hope though.

[smurfslappa]

Because it's once again about the colonisation of land occupied by the poor, for the ultimate benefit of the rich and powerful. Religion is merely the cloak it's all shrouded in.

And I say it's deeper than that, the idea of money and power is the cloak the true nature of these things are shrouded in.

[XerxesX]

The jews that fled to Palestine after the ww2 might not all have been rich greedy brooklyn goldsmiths.
The english tried to stop the exodus. US papers gave them hell for it. The jews did not start throwing out the palestinians untill the arab states decided that a jewish state was untollerable within the reach of the muslim world.
( Be it the Kaliphat of Babylon or Kairo. Sultanate of Kairo or of Istanbul. I presume they were not reinventing the Sultanate of Granada, and Samarkand is a far call ).
I 1945 they were colonies. The sionist-movement allready owned a lot of land. I find it disgusting to put all of this into a rich vs poor context. Its a disgusting simplification.

Diogenes
A lot of the land that was bought by the settlers in the late 1800s was tilled and used and plowed and sowed. Do they have the right to use it then ?
And why dont you get the hell out of america ? It belongs to the empire of the Siux and the Cheyenne and the Arapaho and the other nations. Perhaps pure theory is one of the most dangerous drugs known to man.

[smurfslappa]

Oh really? And just like that *BAM* it becomes a full on nuclear power? Please...

[XerxesX]

Small countries in Europe have had nuclear reactors for research since 1948, at least.

I would like to see a moral and ethical platform that would work worldwide. Nuclear Bam Please ? It took some time but since nobody stopped them they got it.

You seem to suggest that there is an international conspiracy that wanted Israel in the middleeast to sow discord. Is that correct ?

[smurfslappa]

There are no boundaries amongst these guys, but it's important to them that we remain separated. But hell yeah, Israel's there for a purpose. These old Jewish sacrificed an assload of their guys so that the westerners would go along with it. A small patch of land in the middle of nowhere is a superpower? What the hell do they export, anyways?

[XerxesX]

I think you call the beginning the end, and the end the beginning. Isnt it more likely that they got extra clout after they were @sacrified@. Rather than jews planning holohcaus, just to get Israel back ?

All nations beget their purpose. The purpose of Turkey might be to keep the USSR Black Sea fleet in check. But not anymore. Etc. You have gotten it all wrong. Its just the argument creationists use when they say: Look at it, its so brilliant it had to be planned. The truth is that life and history could have taken any other course than this, and it would still fall into place and look brilliant. Animals and people and nations find their ecological nische. Their crooks and crannies ,for survival. Its preposterous to say its planned from up high. The division reaches all through the levels. Its just that the big guys cant fight it you like the kids can. Notice the difference between grownups and kids :wink:

[smurfslappa]

It will always be planned from way high up, Xerxes, because someone will always climb to the top so that they can achieve their goals. When you understand the true nature of how everything works, then that little spur of greed makes you want to grab the reigns and run the world with your crew. But of course there will always be those big hiccups, like getting sent back to the stone age by someone bigger and badder than you. There's always a plan, Xerxes, and the division is an important part of it.

[Joeslogic]

Spoon said: chester grape wrote:
Bingo.


But why keep it up all this time, Israel is losing influence fast, and everybody feels sorry for the poor Palestinians. Why not give the Palestinians a leg up "for all the time they were abused by those nasty Israelites" ? That'll go over great with the general public, and hey presto, instantly renewed hold on the middle east. .


And really shattered the whole conspiracy theory to pieces.

Dio wrote: I'm inclined to agree with you about this Chester. Israel never should have been formed in the first place. I'm going to use my Jersey analogy again. If Germany had won WWII, and occupied the United States, how would Americans have reacted if they kicked everyone out of Jersey and gave it to all the leftover communists? That would have worked out much better than Israel has. Israel has no right to that land. In addition the concept of "owning" land in the west was only introduced about 300 years ago. The concept of owning your own land, and one of Thomas Jeffersons main goals in the framework of the constitution, was that you would have your own land, that you could work, and provide for yourself. No one else took the fruits of your labor off of your hands. This stems from John Locke's concept of land ownership. You didn't "own" land unless if you had broken that land, with your own labor, and turned it into "something". This concept has been lost again on the west. There's still hope though.

And was 180 degrees off in several respects.
Most notably though.
New Jersey? nah more like a remote desert in Nevada where three displaced Piute Indians are starving on their breath and ready to die. Then 50 years later a thriving community exist. Only the Piute Indians have multiplied like rabbits with a population that rivals the commies. Piute from all over the globe have migrated to that remote Nevada location and are demanding now that the commies (who fattened them up and allowed them to multiply) leave and give them back their land. Never mind that most of the Piute land is across the California border where they have been partitioned of in a reservation.

But with that comparison would have to be that Commies always were there from the beginning and were slowly migrating back, albeit in fewer numbers before the Germans put them there in mass.

Then your anology would be more accurate.

[chester grape]

The jews that fled to Palestine after the ww2 might not all have been rich greedy brooklyn goldsmiths.

I never said they were. But they were a fuck of a lot richer (and more importantly, backed by people who were richer again) than the people living upon the land they moved in on.

I find it disgusting to put all of this into a rich vs poor context. Its a disgusting simplification.

You're disgusted by an accurate generalisation? You should get out more.

[XerxesX]

I should get out more, but refuse to compare that with generalisations and their accuracy.

[XerxesX]

It will always be planned from way high up, Xerxes, because someone will always climb to the top so that they can achieve their goals. When you understand the true nature of how everything works, then that little spur of greed makes you want to grab the reigns and run the world with your crew. But of course there will always be those big hiccups, like getting sent back to the stone age by someone bigger and badder than you. There's always a plan, Xerxes, and the division is an important part of it.

As long as you belive that that mountainrange has more than one mountain !
The division is an important part of how it WORKS. Work aint plan.

XerxesX wrote:
The jews that fled to Palestine after the ww2 might not all have been rich greedy brooklyn goldsmiths.


I never said they were. But they were a fuck of a lot richer (and more importantly, backed by people who were richer again) than the people living upon the land they moved in on.


The survivors from the Holocaust were not richer than the farmers in Palestine. The Jewish settlers in Palestine were "richer". At least in terms of technical know-how and a scientific world view.

I doubt that the total number of jews supporting the settlers owned more than the total number of kings and presidents that declared war on the postage-stamp.

Why dont you all worry about those two petite cities Spain holds on maroccan soil in stead. It is a better focus and a world wide shift where Spain was the bad imperialist would alleviate the pain for millions of palestinians. Does this righteous rethoric help the palestinians or just make a nice warm post-"christian" feeling of righteousness in the one repeatinmg this old stance :roll:

[XerxesX]

I doubt that the total number of jews supporting the settlers owned more than the total number of kings and presidents that declared war on the postage-stamp. That should be CONTROLLED more. Not OWNED more. Sorry :)

[diogenes]

I was pretty drunk when I was posting last night. I need to learn not to post after bar night. I think Israel as a state never should have been formed. If individuals wanted to move there then they should have been allowed to move as they see fit. But the "state" of Israel is problematic. It provides a focus point for all middle eastern paranoia. The "State" of Israel has caused many more problems than it solved, since the land is now under "jewish" control, instead of being of equal access (only in theory though, palestinians can buy land in Israel just like anyone else.)

[Joeslogic]

Can't hardly argue with that now Dio.

And if it is a state then ok the Palestinians are voting and electing officials also. They could blend the governments into one. But sure as you did millions of neighboring Arabs would flood into the area and vote the Jews out of every office.

There is no easy answer.

[XerxesX]

I Think they had two states that shared Jerusalem and the palestinians had at least more than they had now. There were problems in the middle east before the birth of modern Israel.
The Arab nations were about to get their freedom from colonial rule, and their first coherrent act is to attack the jews for getting a plot of land around Jerusalem. ? Does this compute ?

[diogenes]

I think the issue mostly lies in Palestinian anger at there own economic problems, which largely lie at the feet of the Arafat regime and it's corruption.

[Joeslogic]

Dio said

I think the issue mostly lies in Palestinian anger at there own economic problems, which largely lie at the feet of the Arafat regime and it's corruption.


Holy shit Dio that’s the most logical straight to the point post you have made in a long time. I could not agree more.

And no it doesn't compute Xerx Seems they were much more tolerant before this radical Islamic revolution took over there Arabs. Remember the Arabs at one time were split much more evenly between Islam, Christian Orthodox and other religions or no religion.

[diogenes]

Joe wrote...

Holy shit Dio that’s the most logical straight to the point post you have made in a long time. I could not agree more.

Everyonce in awhile even a blind pig finds a truffle. :wink:

[XerxesX]

Arafat is to blame for the Palestinian troubles ? You americans sure have an easy life. Is that part of some of your crossword-exams ?

Might as well say 911 went down due to the Bush-Bin Laden conection.
( Both might be true to a certain extent ).

[Joeslogic]

:wink: Yeah we like it you should come on over and see it from a real perspective. :P

[diogenes]

The Palestinian Attorney General passed 700 million, with more to come, in bribery, extortion, and larceny charges against former members of Arafats regime. The fact that nearly a billion dollars, in a country with an annual budget of around a billion, was diverted to government officials has much to do with the Palestinians current woes. That money was supposed to go to infrastructure, instead it lined the pockets of corrupt beaurocrats. Blame that one on the Jews, go ahead and try. Arafat fucked the Palestinians, and they loved him for it. You know why, because he blamed everything on the Jews. Sounds terribly familiar. Oh, that's right. That's the tactic for every dictator in the middle east. Fuck the people, blame the Jews.

[Nursey]

Evening all!

And why dont you get the hell out of america ? It belongs to the empire of the Siux and the Cheyenne and the Arapaho and the other nations.

Don't be silly...it's hardly the same thing. That would just be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

You seem to suggest that there is an international conspiracy that wanted Israel in the middleeast to sow discord. Is that correct ?

Well there seems to be an international conspiracy to have Zionists in the middle east to eventually take over the whole region either directly or by proxy.

Actually, had it not been for the West's support of Hitler, it is likely that he never would have been able to so openly defy the Versailles Treaty in order to build up such an enormous military capability. Amongst the examples of such support is the grandfather of George W. Bush, Prescott Bush, who had three businesses confiscated during WWII by the U.S. government under the Trading With the Enemy Act, for helping to finance the Nazi Party.

What the hell do they export, anyways?

Drugs (http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/04/11/Israeli_ecstasy.html), terrorism (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Israeli_US_Terror_CA.html), sex slaves (http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-interest-to-white-people/israel-sex-slave-trade-one-billion-dollars-per-year_797.html), child prostitutes (for elite paedophilia rings (http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Pedophocracy/child_sexual_abuse_in_Brussels.htm)), illegally harvested organs for transplant (http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/soc.culture.australia/msg00049.html) and oranges (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/baby.jpg).

Isnt it more likely that they got extra clout after they were sacrified(?)

Who sacrificed them?

Similarly, it seems that many victims of the holocaust could have been saved, and perhaps the holocaust avoided altogether, were it not for the Zionist leaders rejecting Germany's originally proposed "solution" to its "Jewish question", which was to deport all Jews on the condition that none of the deportees move to Palestine. This proposal was rejected by the Zionists on the grounds that the deported Jews should move "Only to Palestine!" OfAdolf Eichmann at the beginning of WWII course, the result of such defiance could be well predicted, but this did not matter much to Zionist leaders, such as Chaim Weizman, who said, "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important"link (http://www.yirmeyahureview.com/articles/come_now_and_let_us_reason_together.htm#I.%20Propa ganda%20and%20one-sided%20Reporting)

New Jersey? nah more like a remote desert in Nevada where three displaced Piute Indians are starving on their breath and ready to die. Then 50 years later a thriving community exist. Only the Piute Indians have multiplied like rabbits with a population that rivals the commies. Piute from all over the globe have migrated to that remote Nevada location and are demanding now that the commies (who fattened them up and allowed them to multiply) leave and give them back their land. Never mind that most of the Piute land is across the California border where they have been partitioned of in a reservation.

Right...i had no idea it was all so simple. Could have saved myself a lot of reading.

The Thirteenth Tribe (http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/)

The Khazar Empire and its Heritage

Arthur Koestler



This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Han, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the craddle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry...
The Khazars' sway extended from the Black sea to the Caspian, from the Caucasus to the Volga, and they were instrumental in stopping the Muslim onslaught against Byzantium, the eastern jaw of the gigantic pincer movement that in the West swept across northern Africa and into Spain.
Thereafter the Khazars found themselves in a precarious position between the two major world powers: the Eastern Roman Empire in Byzantium and the triumphant followers of Mohammed. As Arthur Koestler (http://198.62.75.1/www2/koestler/k256.jpg) points out, the Khazars were the Third World of their day, and they chose a surprising method of resisting both the Western pressure to become Christian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism.
The second part of Mr. Koestler's book deals with the Khazar migration to Polish and Lithuanian territories, caused by the Mongol onslaught, and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced.
Mr. Koestler concludes: "The evidence presented in the previous chapters adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians - whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish - who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin. The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe. When that unprecedented mass settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it, while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers" ( page 179, page 180).
"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.
The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500000.
The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew." ( page 181).
In Mr. Koestler's own words, "The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."

Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry. He was also a very talented and successful writer who published over 25 novels and essays. His most successful book, Darkness at Noon, was translated in thirty-three languages.
As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide...

"As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide..."

Wonder if they both shot themselves in the back of the head... :roll:

[diogenes]

Bit of a vindictive mood, eh nursey

[Nursey]

Well there seems to be an international conspiracy to have Zionists in the middle east to eventually take over the whole region either directly or by proxy.



Note the 'new Iraq flag' (which stayed up for about 2 minutes before being quickly bundled back into its box to the sound of millions of stunned gasps from across the globe).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/The20New20Iraqi20Flag.jpg.....'subtle'.....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/israeli-flag.gif



And of course, the *REAL* Iraqi flag: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/iraqflag.gif

[diogenes]

I don't understand why it was necessary for them to change the flag at all.

[Nursey]

I don't understand why it was necessary for them to change the flag at all.

They have to be *cleansed* of their distinct, robust Iraqi-ness in order for the 'new software' to be 'installed' into a pliable, weakened people.

[diogenes]

Ah, it's all so clear now. Flags = embodiment of ethnic identity.

[Nursey]

Ah, it's all so clear now. Flags = embodiment of ethnic identity.

Flags, ancient and recent history, national identity (now religiously defined instead, and with western false-flag espionage efforts, will be split into 3 eventually), mass displacement of educated classes, agricultural self-sufficiency (http://www.rense.com/general62/seeds.htm), genetic continuity (http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm) ... is that any clearer?

[Nursey]

I don't understand why it was necessary for them to change the flag at all.

Haven't you figured out yet the whole thing is a very carefully planned agenda? Nothing is for no reason. :roll:

[diogenes]

I just can't see them as that well organized. I bet they're led by Raz Al Ghul.

[Nursey]

And before anyone jumps down my throat, the 'sex slaves' link is to a dodgey site which was unintentional, but the same story is widely available from many different sources. I was just quick-scanning through loads of pages for the right story.

[XerxesX]

XionseX wrote:XionseX wrote:XhfehfX wrote:XgasmX wrote:
Nursey ! 8) XerxeSx thinks................................ :P

But the art of finding quotes and reading a system of deterministic or conspiratorical "will" into it is not your best analytical trait...............

That thirteenth tribe is good reading :) Remember i mentioned theScyth connection. If you are interested you might allso check up on Lithuania.
( The last heathen nation in Europe, They counted their years after the hebraic calendar ).

[XerxesX]

I probably wont post much since the internet here in Samara is expensive, but ill check in :)

And Nursey:
One reason for numbers of jews growing disproportional to possible birthrates can be mass-conversion after christian takeover of heathen lands. ( Like Lithuania ).
But the guy that was the only one that could wouch my grandad was covertop during the ww2, ( they were both really aryan and pro- all of that shit until they started smashing jewish windows and shit ) His family , that ( acidentally ) became buddies during growing up ( Acidentally ? At least we did not know of the connection ) They are now jewish 8)

The killing spree of army-group center must have taken a big toll on the jewish populations in Ukraine and Belyorus. Do you think this was planned by the Zionist-settler-movement :roll:

[Nursey]

I don't know about that, but what i do know is that the Zionists did collaborate with the Nazis, who had a respect for Zionism which was the only other group allowed to raise their flag in nazi Germany. Please research this if you don't believe me. In the meantime, here are a few pointers...
Zionist collaboration with the Nazis (http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/selam12.htm)


A study of JA (Jewish Alliance) policy during the Nazi era supports the position that, had Zionism not been preoccupied with building a Jewish state as its overriding goal, more Jews would have been rescued. The JA saved Jews only when it served its national goals.

Readers, too, will be surprised to learn, that after the Nuremberg Anti-Jewish Race Laws were enacted in Sept., 1935, that there were only two flags that were permitted to be displayed in all of Nazi Germany. One was Hitler's favorite, the Swastika. The other was the blue and white banner of Zionism. The Zionists were also allowed to publish their own newspaper. The reasons for this Reich-sponsored favoritism was, according to the author: The Zionists and the Nazis had a common interest, making German Jews emigrate to Palestine.

Interestingly, in a post-war interview, Adolf Eichmann declared, "I often said to Jews with whom I had dealings that, had I been a Jew, I would have been a fanatical Zionist. I could not imagine being anything else. In fact, I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable."link (http://www.yirmeyahureview.com/articles/come_now_and_let_us_reason_together.htm)

"It is openly stated in the books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did." — Jews NOT Zionists (http://www.ukar.org/jewsnot1.html)

Among the closest collaborators of Hitler's Nazis were Jews, from which conclusion some Jews today deflect attention by blaming non-Jews for such collaboration, even when such blame is gratuitous. Support for this thesis can be found on the Ukrainian Archive in Lubomyr Prytulak's letters to Canadian Justice Minister, Anne McLellan, regarding Jewish war crimes and regarding The Jewish Ghetto Police.

(3) Among the foremost goals of Zionists is to increase emigration to Israel, in the service of which the magnification of existing anti-Semitism, and the incitement of fresh anti-Semitism, are indispensible tools. Israeli agents bombing synagogues and throwing hand grenades at Jews so as to make them believe that non-Jews wish them gone would fall under the heading of magnifying existing anti-Semitism. This topic is introduced on the Ukrainian Archive in The Plundering of Ukraine (a preliminary overview), and some documentation for Israeli readiness to induce Jews to emigrate to Israel by bombing them has been presented in Akiva Orr: Stampede the Jews to Israel.

(4) Jews sometimes hold others to blame for failing to afford their people sanctuary during the Holocaust, whereas it can be seen that Zionists encouraged such closed-door policies, and engineered them where they did not exist.source (http://www.ukar.org/jewsnot1.html)

[smurfslappa]

HaHa, the Jews fostered the Holocaust. What's even funnier is, with all this meticulous planning, we still think Hitler invaded Stalingrad and Moscow because, according to Mein Kampf, he thought it was like a shack that would come crumbling down if the front door was kicked in. And hmmm, those Russians sure were quick to give up Moscow.

[XerxesX]

Its just that hese tbroad leaps ( of faith ), when it comes to the division between modern socialist zionists and the Thora-thumpers, with an included precognition of the Endlosung seems like the good lod bad relogion taking a poke at historical analysis once again.

HaHa, the Jews fostered the Holocaust
I Think this says it all. No need for me to elaborate on the clearly moronic

[smurfslappa]

Pardon me, the Zionists fostered the holocaust.

And whatever Xerxes, you don't see the depression coming. No need for me to point out you're an idiot, but I like to anyways.

[Nursey]

Ah, it's all so clear now. Flags = embodiment of ethnic identity.

I just found this on the matter:

I would like to draw your attention to the latest insult the American Imperialists have placed on the noble people of Iraq. That of the replacement of their national flag. What bearing one may ask has the replacement of a flag have to this 'process of liberation' especially given the fact there is still no legitmate authority to discuss the matter and decide upon it. While the people of Iraq suffer the ravages of bombs and starvation at the hands of their 'liberators' they are now ordered to accept the new flag of colonialism. Yet again without any due process of democracy asking the opinions of the iraqi people they have had something dear to them taken away from them and something alien imposed upon them.

* Gone is the traditional colour of Green strongly associated with the colour of Islam.
* Gone is the traditional colour of Black strongly associated with the Kerbala and the mourning of the martyrdom of Imam Hussain
* Gone especially the newest addition, the inscription of 'Allah o Akbar' God is the greatest, despite the fact that it may have been added by Saddam for his own propoganda it encaptured the great resiliance of the Iraqi people and their dependence and trust in God in the fact of American tyranny.
* Gone is the strong red that represented the blood sacrficed by the people in pursuit of freedom from tyranny and colonialism.
* Gone are the colours of Pan-Arabism that united with many of its neighbours, in the same way many Western countries are united upon their choice of red, white and blue.


Instead what the Iraqis have been given is a flag alien to any country in the middle east except one. The light blue and white are colours of only one idealogy and have never been colours associated with Islam and muslims. The flag has intentionally been chosen to be devisive amongst muslims and especially arabs. Divide and conquer, with a subersive attempt to align it more with, yes you guessed it, Israel. The flag for the American colonialist is indictiive of what they want from the middle east states.
Muslim and arab countries that are subserviant to Israel and American foreign policy. All stories about how this new flag has been designed and what it symbolises are lies and a cover up. Lets look the only country that shares the colour coordination of this colonial flag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/iris-mov.gif

At the ceremony of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, the dais was decorated with a picture of Theodor Herzl, flanked on either side by the flag of the World Zionist Organization. This flag, adopted by the first Zionist Congress in Basle in 1897, had become accepted by Jewish communities throughout the world as the emblem of Zionism and it was thus natural to use it at the official proclamation of statehood. Five-and-half months earlier, on November 29, 1947 when the Jews of Eretz Israel had poured into the streets to celebrate the United Nations partition resolution, they too had hoisted the flag of the WZO and used it as a unifying symbol. In May, however, only a few days after the Zionist dream had become reality, the question was raised as to whether the Zionist banner should be the flag of the state or should be replaced. The dilemma continued for about six months, until the following notice was published in the Official Gazette:

"The Provisional Council of State
Proclamation of the Flag of the State of Israel

The Provisional Council of State hereby proclaims that the flag of the State of Israel shall be as illustrated and described below: The flag is 220 cm. long and 160 cm. wide. The background is white and on it are two stripes of dark sky-blue, 25 cm. broad, over the whole length of the flag, at a distance of 15 cm. from the top and from the bottom of the flag. In the middle of the white background, between the two blue stripes and at equal distance from each stripe is a Star of David, composed of six dark sky-blue stripes, 5.5 cm. broad, which form two equilateral triangles, the bases of which are parallel to the two horizontal stripes."

25 Tishrei 5709 (28 October 1948)
Provisional Council of State
Joseph Sprinzak, Speaker

This decision to adopt the Zionist flag to be the flag of the State of Israel reflects its power as a symbol of the spirit of the Zionist movement. In order to examine the reasons that led to this decision, let us look for the symbolism and consider the motives which prompted the members of the Provisional Council of State first to consider replacing it and then to decide against doing so. Zionist tradition credits the design of the Zionist flag to David Wolffsohn. Legend even tells precisely when Wolffsohn had his brainstorm, namely, that during a meeting in Basel Herzl raised the question of the Zionist flag. When his proposal of a white banner with seven gold stars failed to marshal a consensus, Wolffsohn stood up and said: "Why do we have to search? Here is our national flag." Upon which he displayed his prayer shawl and showed everyone the national flag: a white field with blue stripes along the margin.


“At the behest of our leader Herzl, I came to Basle to make preparations for the Zionist Congress. Among many other problems that occupied me then was one which contained something of the essence of the Jewish problem. What flag would we hang in the Congress Hall? Then an idea struck me. We have a flag — and it is blue and white. The talith (prayer shawl) with which we wrap ouselves when we pray: that is our symbol. Let us take this Talith from its bag and unroll it before the eyes of Israel and the eyes of all nations. So I ordered a blue and white flag with the Shield of David painted upon it. That is how the national flag, that flew over Congress Hall, came into being.”

— David Wolffsohn

The cabinet preferred a flag design of seven six-pointed golden stars on a white field, with blue stripes above and below. The reason was that some politicians, notably the minister of foreign affairs, felt a need to have a flag for the new state that was different from the flag of the Zionist Movement. This, as we know, was rejected. According to Handelman and Shamgar-Handelman, the only difference between the flag of the state of Israel and the flag of the Zionist Movement, was that the shade of blue was changed from light to dark blue in the flag of the state of Israel.
The flag of Israel is based on the design of the tallit, the prayer shawl worn by Jewish men (and by some women in Reform and Conservative congregations) during certain services. The tallit is worn during all morning services. In addition, it is worn on the eve of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The tallit is also worn when reading the Torah during Shabbat (Sabbath) afternoon services and by the person leading evening services. (Jews pray three times a day: the morning service is called shacharit; the afternoon service is called minchah; and the evening service is called ma'ariv or aravit.) There are two basic traditions regarding who wears the tallit. According to one tradition, any Jewish adult should wear the tallit (at the appropriate times). A Jewish adult is one who is thirteen years of age and older (a Bar Mitzvah, or "Son of the Commandments.") According to another tradition, only married Jews wear the tallit. In addition to the exterior tallit, there is also a tallit katan ("small tallit"), which pious Jews wear all day under their clothes.

It is plain to any fool that the colour of a white background with two blue strips are religous and idealogical colours of Zionism and Judaism. the colonial occupiers are trying to squeeze this symbolism in through the backdoor assuming Muslims and arabs will be too stupid to realise.This must not happen.


* Muslims and arabs must all be informed about this conspiracy and this can only add weight to the arguement that Israel is never stopping in its attempt to colonise the Arab and Muslim World in its pursuit of a Greater Israel it is achieveing this through the support and blessing of the new colonialist USA.
* Muslims and arabs espcially Iraqis should make it clear they do not accept this new flag under any circumstances.
* Nobody asked the Iraqis democratically if they wanted to change their flag. If a new flag is to be designed it has to done so by the Iraqi people and for the Iraqi people, if in fact they wish to change their flag at all! This all has to be done democratically and not forced onto them by an unelected council.
* Muslims and arabs should write to all Independent groups, journalists, arab representatives, The arab league, Muslim League, Organisation of Islamic conference (OIC), embassies etc and demand a stop to this imperial Israel flag being imposed on Iraqi people.



Arabs, especially Iraqis and Muslims the world over should make it clear that they are not prepared to be dictated to on freedom, democracy or their national flag by colonial occupiers. This new flag is an affront to the Iraqi people and makes out that Iraq and its noble people are subsideries to Israel. Source (http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat/english/0504/igc-flaq.htm)

[Nursey]

And if you still aren't convinced of the significance of a countrys' flag in terms of its national/ethnic identity, here's what the experts in the field of vexillology - or flag design - are saying...

Experts say new Iraqi flag lacks symmetry, symbolism (http://www.flagwire.com/index.php?doc=28&aid=354)


The world of vexillology is often filled with heated debate, but yesterday these opinionated folks reached a nearly universal consensus on one issue: Things are looking pretty ugly in Iraq. Flag aficionados, properly known as vexillologists, were abuzz as the Iraqi Governing Council became the latest government to design a new national flag. The new banner, dominated by a light-blue crescent on a white background, was received with confusion and skepticism on the streets of Baghdad yesterday. It was unveiled with little advance warning. Among flag folks, the reception was less ambiguous. "This is not a good flag," said David Martucci, president of the North American Vexillological Association. "I think most people in this community agree on that." He and his colleagues don't like its awkward asymmetry, with three thick bars along the bottom representing the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (in blue) and the Kurdish people (in yellow). And they aren't fond of the white background, which they deride as a "crest on a bed sheet" design. Most of all, they don't like the flag's symbolism. "My feeling is that a lot of people in Iraq will feel that they're turning their back on the traditions of the country," Mr. Martucci said, "and that does not bode well for the future." Iraq's flags, like the flags of almost every other Arab-dominated nation, have always featured variations on green, gold, black and red. Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime placed three gold stars in the centre, representing a hoped-for union with Syria and Egypt. During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, Mr. Hussein added an Arabic inscription in his own hand, reading "God is great," apparently to de-secularize his country and win support from other Islamic nations. [EDITOR'S NOTE: The Pan-Arab colours are green, white, black and red. The stars on the central white stripe of the flag of Iraq are green, not gold.] White and blue have never been Arab colours, and are best known as the colours of Israel. The new Iraqi flag looks strikingly like the Israeli flag, with an Islamic crescent in place of the Star of David. The absence of green, the colour of the Prophet Mohammed and the colour of divine light in Islamic mystical symbolism, provoked controversy among Iraqis yesterday.
Because many Iraqis consider the U.S.-appointed Governing Council an American puppet, and because the United States is widely condemned by Arabs for its friendship with Israel, flag experts said the new colours are particularly ill-chosen. "It flies in the face of the traditions of that country; these are not small things. There are reams of Iraqi poetry, by the most respected poets in the country, devoted to the four Arab colours," Mr. Martucci said in an interview from his Massachusetts home. "It's probably extraordinarily clear to people that this government is not keeping with their deepest beliefs."

[diogenes]

The point I'm making is that the Iraqi's shouldn't be so worried about the flag. You're a citizen of humanity before you are a citizen of a nation. I don't hold the American flag in any particular esteem. I don't agree with those vexillologists either. Flags shouldn't be that important, hence my reason behind believing they never should have changed it in the first place.

[chester grape]

The point I'm making is that the Iraqi's shouldn't be so worried about the flag. You're a citizen of humanity before you are a citizen of a nation. I don't hold the American flag in any particular esteem. I don't agree with those vexillologists either. Flags shouldn't be that important, hence my reason behind believing they never should have changed it in the first place.

"Shouldn't be", but are.

I'd like to think I should be able to wipe my arse on any country's flag, then set it alight if I want to, as a form of political expression. But how far through that act would I get with the stars and stripes, say in front of the Lincoln Monument?

As a matter of fact, it's pretty well known that Australians are rather laissez faire about our flag. But when I motioned to wipe my arse on the "free flag" the Daily Telegraph newspaper provided me at work - as a comment on the Murdoch press, not a comment on the Australian people - there was an audible intake of breath by those around me.

Now if I can't even get away with that kind of behaviour with my own country's flag, I don't think it's reasonable to go tampering with others'.

[diogenes]

Of course, my statement came from an idealistic point of view. The fact of the matter is people get their panties up in a bunch over all kinds of rediculous things. I bet Joe kills a kitten everytime he sees the American flag desecrated. Me personally, I could care less about a flag. I just find it distasteful that people create so many artificial "us" and "them". We're all basically the same. That being said, they should have left the flag as is. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

[smurfslappa]

Don't fix it if it ain't broke, sure. Change it to something offensive if you want to piss them off. Stir up a civil war and all.

[diogenes]

How would a change in the Iraqi flag stir up a civil war, seeing as how the Iraqis on both sides would blame the Americans?

[smurfslappa]

Well, the rising up against Americans will come eventually. The flag will be a bitter reminder that we created their civil war, which was itself created by a number of other causes. But they are looming on the brink of civil war. Got 'em right where we want 'em.

[XerxesX]

That was a nice gesture. The psyops certainly know what rocks these days. The surface-symbology of a defeated Iraq barely contradicting the more subtle nuance of the swedish dreamhouse eclipsed by the sickle moon.
A symbol that became that of Islam at the ottoman crossing of the Bosporous. A crossing that leads from Little Asia into Eurpoe .
( For those of faint geography ).
Thius flag will ofcourse be a forgotten mistake. Buried in the vaults, and in the subconciousness of millions of iraquis. Hove about a blond swedish bombshell ?

[diogenes]

The middle east is not ready for Democracy. The Iraqi factions are not ready, nor are they willing, to compromise with each other. Quite the problem in a nation with everyone armed to the teeth. The attacks on the Mosques are just one more example of how barbaric some of these people are, and they would rather see the whole country destroyed rather than have it be run a way other than theirs. I hate religion.

[XerxesX]

I hate religion too. Thats why I dig magic. Its free man. No demons ride you :D
Muhammed killed 700 jews and took their young women slaves. That was not nice.
I sort of dig Jesus, but why did they have to make a religion out of it :?:

[Nursey]

Hove about a blond swedish bombshell ?

How about Anna Lindh - touted as the next Swedish prime minister - who died on September 11th 2003 after being violently stabbed to death...
The Strange Death of Anna Lindh (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1120)


DID MOSSAD ASSASSINATE ANNA LINDH?

Sweden’s popular foreign minister Anna Lindh is the third high-ranking Swedish political opponent of Zionism to have been murdered since 1948, which raises the question: Was Lindh assassinated because of her outspoken opposition to Israel’s occupation of Palestine?

When Sweden’s foreign minister Anna Lindh was brutally stabbed by an unknown assailant while shopping in an upscale Stockholm department store, it marked the third murder in 55 years of a high-level Swedish opponent of Zionist aggression in Palestine.

While the controlled press was quick to point out an unidentified suspect, later released, with alleged ties to “neo-Nazis,” it has virtually ignored the historical precedents that suggest that the killing of Lindh may have been an assassination aimed at silencing an influential political opponent of the Zionist extremists who control the Israeli government and wield great influence in Washington.

Anna Lindh’s Sweden “has had more of an impact on Palestinian history than closer or greater powers throughout the world,” Hanan Ashrawi, the Palestinian professor and negotiator, wrote after the murder.

The death of Lindh and the late UN representative in Baghdad, Sergio Vieira de Mello, represents the loss of “two voices who called with determination for salvaging the UN’s role in Iraq and for implementing its resolutions in Palestine,” Bouthaina Shaaban, a minister in the new Syrian government, wrote in The Daily Star (Lebanon).

Shaaban noted that Lindh had:-

· Called upon the European Union, on April 3, 2002, to sever ties with Israel in protest against Israeli practices;
· Called on US President George W. Bush to deny Sharon unconditional support, as this would inflame the Middle East;
· Stressed that the only solution in the Middle East rested in ending the Israeli occupation (otherwise everybody would become a hostage to the conflict);
· Played an important role in shaping the EU’s decision to adopt a policy toward Palestinian President Yasser Arafat different from that of the U.S.;
· Confirmed the importance of Arafat as a partner in the peace process, rejecting Washington’s claims that he supported terrorism;
· Stood firmly against the war on Iraq;
· And warned of the dangers of changing another country’s regime without the support of international law.

Regarding weapons of mass destruction, Lindh called for the creation of a Middle East free of such weapons, including Israel. Lindh strongly opposed the Anglo-American aggression and occupation of Iraq.

"A blatant assassination like this sends a message to anyone contemplating challenging Israel." (http://judicial-inc.biz/Anna_Lindh.htm)

[XerxesX]

Yup ! Thats Anna Lind. The murderer was heavily into the psych-ward. Lacking his medication and roaming the streets. Your presumed murderer is really on that list of the potentially brainwashed.

Olof Palme was killed as well. They were both killed by dysfunctional members of society.
The suggestion that it was staged is not a new one, but the
blatant mistakes made offing Kennedy. Then later, littlebrother and MLKing within one month will never be repeated. Mossad ? The Palme-Killing led on a race for Kurdish guerillas. Who nows what part of that might be true.
Anyway. Sweden is a beautiful country with the best of the liberal tradition intact. Many of the same liberal traits as France has been renowned for.
Beautifull city Stockholm. Swedens important role as a part of the alliance of neutral countries should be remembered. Mossad ? Hm ! That was a bit easy. If you make the list complete it would be a bit longer. Go to Sweden Nursey. You would like it there. The Maypole and the long summer nights.
Some say that the unspoken treaties binding nations to a rule of law, was torn down when one superpower gained preemminence. Carlos the Jackal was apprehended whan KGB drew out of Sudan. It could allso be that european socialists with palestinian sympathies would get downgraded. Mossad ? Are you serious ?

[Nursey]

Mossad ? Are you serious ?

No but of course not! I'm sure the Israeli MOSSAD would NEVER stoop so low!

There is nothing new in the fact that Israel is a terrorist state which, almost from its inception, has used one of its intelligence agencies, the Mossad, to carry out violence or terror, including assassination, it considers necessary for its ends.source (http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay8.html)


MOSSAD given permission to carry out extra judicial executions on American soil (http://www.merip.org/mero/mero021703.html)


In early February 2003, the Forward -- a venerable New York-based Jewish weekly -- reported that US and Israeli legal experts have met in recent months to discuss methods of justifying the legality of assassination. According to high-level Israeli sources, US representatives had approached Israeli government jurists to hear about methods for confronting possible challenges, either in international or domestic courts, to "targeted killings" that might be sanctioned by Washington.

Several weeks earlier, on January 15, UPI intelligence correspondent Richard Sale quoted multiple Israeli and US official sources stating that the Mossad has been given permission to carry out "targeted killings" on the soil of friendly countries, including the United States. Remarkably, the Bush administration has thus far declined to comment on the reported expansion of Israel's assassination policy. Only one journalist, Russell Mokhiber, bothered to ask White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer for a response, which Fleischer has yet to provide. State Department spokesmen have issued no statement on the matter. Together with the Bush administration's ever deepening silence about "targeted killings" of Palestinians, these developments illustrate a steady convergence between US and Israeli tactics in the two countries' respective "wars on terrorism."

These are people who intend to achieve their goals by any means necessary. Whether inside or outwith the law. Wake up...the world is at war.

[Nursey]

Mossad - The World's Most
Efficient Killing Machine (http://www.rense.com/general32/ruth.htm)

[XerxesX]

As that NoSpinZoneGuy said it on FoxNews the other day: " I got nothing against liberals. It all comes down to how they use their liberalism. To illuminate, or to destroy".

Yes there are some waves out there. For me the war is over, and if i go out again, it certainly will not be against my little sisters boyfriend ! Wake up you say !
It does not allways stay with the written word. i had this shirt a while back. Took it from this guy that disapeared. He was a nutcase. ( Of pretending to be one ). Got me spooked. But many spooked me then. he could crawl beneath a 20cm glitch in the barbed wire.
The shirt spelled eurodisney and Goofey was the motife.
We are not at war Nursey. People like him are. The world is at war. Luckily there are people trying to prepare for a peace. Not everybody can fight and win a war like this.
The trouble to balance the middle east and prepare it for a lasting peace does not go through the boycott of israeli goods. Step carefully sister :)

Sweden ! Now that Volvo is a part of the ChrystlerDaimlerfamily and Ericson has its production out of China i dont know. Maybe just leave poor Sweden alone ?

Of course the israelis have a lot of bugbears stashed away. I do not think they offed MLKing though !

[Nursey]

Another nice abstract reply from XerxesX. But what disturbs me most is the Goofy t-shirt....you didn't actually wear that did you? :!:

[Nursey]

The middle east is not ready for Democracy.
You think the U.S. has a real democracy? And that's how Bush became President? How quaint.


The Iraqi factions are not ready, nor are they willing, to compromise with each other. Quite the problem in a nation with everyone armed to the teeth. The attacks on the Mosques are just one more example of how barbaric some of these people are, and they would rather see the whole country destroyed rather than have it be run a way other than theirs. I hate religion.

That mosque - a 1200 year old shrine - was as holy to Sunnis as it was to Shi'ias. And that was a highly sophisticated bomb.

Flashback: Many Iraqis believe ’suicide’ bombings done by US to start a civil war (http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=8286)

Ali Ghazi, also a Shia from the Iraqi deep south. "I believe it is the Americans who are doing this, pretending it is the Sunni, so there will be a civil war and they can control our wealth." Many survivors lying mangled by this morning’s bombs subscribed to a conspiracy theory according to which the US wants to rule Iraq by fomenting differences between Shia and Sunni.... many of those wounded denied there would be a war between Shia and Sunni. Mohammed Abdul Karim, an injured Shia at Noman hospital, pointed out that he was in a Sunni district and the Sunni doctors were doing everything to help him.

Who Benefits? (http://judicial-inc.biz/mossad_destroys_1200_year_old_sh.htm)

Just in the last two days, (2/21/2006), there has been eight bombings, and over one hundred deaths in Iraq. The attacks were targeted at the Shiites initially, but now the Sunnis are being killed.

The Shiites and Sunnis, have lived peacefully for 1600 years. but since the Israeli sponsored, American lead war. The current death toll, blamed on the two sects, has skyrocketed past 10,000.
Israel Wants An Iraq Civil War

Israel wants control of Iraq, and it's oil. The US will rebuild the Mosul-Haifa pipeline, and Israel will control 30% of the world's oil.

The two sides (Sunnis and Shiites) kill each other, and their leaders, while Israel sneaks in and replaces the key leaders.


And let's not forget...
Few readers can be unaware by now that on Monday, September 19, in the southern, British-controlled portion of Iraq, Iraqi police apprehended two men, disguised as Arabs - they were dressed, in fact, as members of Moqtada al Sadr’s militia force, the Mehdi Army. The matter of their identity remains unsettled. Although Brigadier John Lorimer, the Brigade Commander of the 12 Mechanised Brigade, has acknowledged the men to be British soldiers, the head of Basra police has stated otherwise, and a Basra judge, Raghib Hasan, has called for their re-arrest on that basis. There has been conjecture that they were Israeli, which would indicate Mossad involvement, as well as a report that they were carrying Canadian passports. Since Canada is not officially involved in the Iraq misadventure, it would obviously be a great national scandal in that country if the population were to learn that their government had permitted Canadians to assist the Anglo-American occupation forces in an undercover capacity. Alternatively, operatives from Israel (or another country) may be making use of stolen or fraudulently-obtained Canadian passports, which would be a scandal in itself.Full story (http://www.blogigo.co.uk/socialdemocracynow/entry/44906)

[diogenes]

You think the U.S. has a real democracy? And that's how Bush became President? How quaint.

I understand the leap you are making, but I never said that. The U.S. is a republic, it has never been a democracy, nor will it ever be. It is also in oligarchy, where an elite few run the country. I'm not Joe, nor am I Grim. Nice try with the Strawman argument though.

Are you saying the Middle East is ready for Democracy than? I'd like to see your specifications for the "highly sophisticated bomb." Remember, the men running the "insurgency/resistance" are educated and inventive. A highly sophisticated bomb is not out of their technical know how.

[Nursey]

I understand the leap you are making, but I never said that. The U.S. is a republic, it has never been a democracy, nor will it ever be. It is also in oligarchy, where an elite few run the country. I'm not Joe, nor am I Grim. Nice try with the Strawman argument though.

Ok, i see.

Are you saying the Middle East is ready for Democracy than?

It wouldn't be appropriate for them. They have ways of doing things which reflect their circumstances and we have ours. Too many westerners try to interpret what's happening outside our comfy bubble through western eyes.
I'd like to see your specifications for the "highly sophisticated bomb." Remember, the men running the "insurgency/resistance" are educated and inventive. A highly sophisticated bomb is not out of their technical know how.

I'm just speaking from a layman's perspective. It's obvious it wasn't a pissy little 'improvised' device.

[diogenes]

Then we pretty much agree. What exactly is our argument about again?

[chester grape]

Then we pretty much agree. What exactly is our argument about again?

Quick, just kiss her you fool!

[Nursey]

I hate religion too. Thats why I dig magic. Its free man. No demons ride you :D


You sure about that?

[diogenes]

That would have to be one hell of a kiss considering the flight time involved.

[Nursey]

That would have to be one hell of a kiss considering the flight time involved.

And i'd not be willing to take the blame if my 'angelingus jowlie' vortexual suction and locking motion awoke the 'Kundelini' monster.

[diogenes]

I have hands.

[XerxesX]

Yes Nursey ! I wore that T for along time. Untill a shirtless kid in La Ceiba got it off of me.

XerxesX wrote:
I hate religion too. Thats why I dig magic. Its free man. No demons ride you



You sure about that?

Nope ! Plenty of demons. Got me again sister :roll:
Ideally it could have been cool though. I mean if religion wasnt politics and any revision was a potential attack on the big hive.

[Ulfur Engil]

If anything suggests the idea of a Zionist agenda, then it would be the rash of recent events.

The arrest of David Irving, which flies in the face of the recent European profession of free speech obviously benefits the Zionist position not only as an extension of the symptomatic guilt-complex that the Holocaust industry has imposed (The Holocaust is something I have never believed occurred as the high-school history books say), but also as their monopolising the academic field when it comes to challenging history.

It does, funny enough, tie in nicely with the recent uproar over the Muslim cartoon. Had this been a charicature of the Jew, then you would have seen the U.N. step in, and impose ecnomic sanctions on Denmark. But, instead, Europe maintains its stance against Islam, for which they should not receive blame, but rather for their hypocrisy because they become spineless when the even more repugnant stench of Zionism stains their image.

And to add, the recent pressure on Iran comes at a convenient time when their position on Israel has remained unwavering (had Dr. Irving done what Horst Mahler did, Iran would be protecting him).

[XerxesX]

The Irving case was well underway. Believeing its a preplanned
( pseudo )-omniscience at work sounds like another attempt at spin and utter confusion.

Israel has no interrest in a billion angered hatecrazed muslems. The western economies an masse, just might. The whole idea of a zionist conspiracy as clear as the colour of bombs is quite preposterous.

[Ulfur Engil]

The Irving case was well underway. Believeing its a preplanned
( pseudo )-omniscience at work sounds like another attempt at spin and utter confusion.

Israel has no interrest in a billion angered hatecrazed muslems. The western economies an masse, just might. The whole idea of a zionist conspiracy as clear as the colour of bombs is quite preposterous.

Israel has nothing but the highest interest in a billion enraged Muslims, particularly in that they hold European-American relations to Israel as part of the cause of their predicament.

So, what the most convenient thing to do would be to turn the two against each other, knowing the amount of damage Western military technology can cause, and then simply take what is left in the aftermath. The Zionist-Israeli position would benefit from such an engagement (as they so far have).

[XerxesX]

I would suggest that a wartired west is more likely to come from such high-intensity engagements. This would not benefit Israel. Instead of conspiracy, is see meme. National and cultural. Even if the israeli foreigndepartment trhough its embassy
might have put preassure on the austrian process. ( enquired, is the word ).
That still does not spell conspiracy and it sure isnt smart. That inequality is a rallyingpoint for the peacemongering hordes of social liberalism