Truth Does Not Need Protection

[Nursey]

Just posting this on the day David Irving, a British historian, was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4733820.stm) in Austria for the thought crime of 'Holocaust Denial' for a speech he made 16 years ago.

How do we distinguish Truth from Lies? (http://www.erichufschmid.net/Separating_truth_from_lies.htm)


And how do we determine who to trust?


After I wrote about the deception in the 9/11 movement, some people have been ask me, "How can we figure out who to trust?"


The truth can be placed in the open; exposed naked to the entire world. The truth does not need any laws to protect it, and it does not need secrecy to protect it. The truth does not need evidence destroyed, nor does it need videotapes to be confiscated.

Only lies need secrecy; only lies need protection from laws. Only lies benefit from fear, secrecy, blackmail, gossip, and confiscation of evidence.

For example, to determine the truth about the 9/11 attack, we only have to bring out all of the video recordings, the photographs, the rubble from the World Trade Center, the seismic data, and the testimony of the witnesses. By letting us see everything, we will eventually figure out what happened and who is a liar.

However, the media and government are suppressing some video recordings, witnesses, scientific analyses, and people (such as myself). The government also destroyed most of the rubble from the towers, and there are accusations that they destroyed other evidence also. This destruction of evidence is proof that they are hiding something.

Nobody destroys evidence or suppresses people if they are trying to spread the truth. The truth is supported with evidence. The more evidence we have, the more we can be certain of what the truth is. Therefore, to spread the truth, expose all evidence.

By comparison, if somebody is promoting a lie, he must suppress the particular people and information that expose the lie.



The Incubator Babies

Do you remember the stories circulating in America in 1990 about the evil Iraqi soldiers who were throwing babies out of their incubators?

There were eyewitnesses to this atrocity, such as this adorable girl who is holding back tears as she tells the world about those horrible Iraqis.

Millions of Americans were enraged that the evil Iraqis would behave in such a savage manner, and this anger helped to bring support for the war in Iraq. The glorious, righteous Americans charged off to battle and slaughtered the evil Iraqis.


Am I allowed to ask, how many babies were thrown out of the incubator? Am I an incubator baby denier for asking such a question?

Some people claim that zero babies were thrown out of incubators, and that the entire story is a hoax in order to enrage the Americans. Here are two articles about it, in case you never heard of this:

www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html
and:
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/us-iraq-lie.html

Are the people who make these accusations Incubator Baby Deniers? Should they be arrested? Should they be told to shut up?

The truth about the incubator baby story does not need laws to protect it. There is no reason to tell anybody to be quiet about it. The truth about the incubator babies will come out when we expose all evidence, not when we tell people to shut up.



Ignore the pressure to hide evidence

Lots of people and organizations claim to be "truth seekers" in regards to 9-11. However, if they were truly honest, they would encourage people to look at all of the evidence.

For example, the MoveOn organization ignores some of the most important evidence of 9-11. The Air America radio network also ignores lots of critical information and people.

It is the ordinary, unknown citizens who pass out videos, books, and web sites. If this world improves, it will be because of those unknown citizens who are ignoring the large organizations and passing out the suppressed information to their friends and neighbors.




Should I keep quiet on some issues?

Occasionally somebody will advise me to stop talking about one or both of these issues:

# The Apollo moon landing

# The Holocaust


Why should I ignore those two subjects? How does the truth on those subjects benefit by suppressing discussions of them?

I have been given two, completely different sets of reasons as to why I should remain quiet, depending on whether the person telling me to keep my mouth shut promotes the official story. The two groups of reasons are:


1) The people who tell me that Apollo astronauts really did land on the moon, and the official Holocaust story is 99% accurate, tell me to shut my mouth because...

# I will ruin my reputation.

# I will hurt everybody else's reputation in the 9-11 movement.


2) The people who tell me that Apollo and the Holocaust are indeed hoaxes tell me to shut my mouth because...

# Most people are too stupid to understand these issues, so I would be wasting time that could be put to more productive uses.

# The Zionists will attack me, maybe have me arrested, maybe kill me.


Now let's consider whether I should follow their advice and keep quiet about these issues.


Case 1: The Apollo astronauts really did land on the moon, and the official Holocaust story is at least 99% accurate.


Consider the issue of mercury dental fillings. The official story is that these fillings are safe. Will I ruin my reputation for asking questions about their safety?

Well... I will ask some questions, and then you can let me know if I just ruined my reputation.

Questions about mercury dental filling:

# Don't molecules from the fillings tear off once in a while? If so, do those molecules pass through our digestive system without bothering us?

# If some mercury does get into our bloodstream, will it cause any problems for us?

# Have these fillings been proven to be 100% safe, or were they considered safe by corporate executives simply because the amount of mercury they gets into us is so small that they decided not to worry about it?

# Who has done the scientific investigations on this issue? Were any of the investigations conducted by scientists who had no connection to the corporations that profit from these fillings?


OK... I just asked some questions about mercury dental fillings. Did I ruin my reputation?

Let me now ask some questions about the Vietnam War.

Questions about the Vietnam War:
I know a man who is a few years older than me. He was drafted and sent to fight in the Vietnam war. However, he had no desire to kill Vietnamese. He did not understand why he should consider the Vietnamese to be his enemy.

He told me that in his small group of about six men, only their leader was interested in the war.

He told me that when their leader took them out into the forest, they had to pretend that they were interested in fighting the war, but often their leader would send them out on their own. This group of about 6 young men would go out into the forest, find a nice tree to sit under, relax, and often play cards.

When evening came, they would go home and tell their leader that they had killed a few Vietnamese.

There are many significant lessons to learn from this man. Two of them are:

1) Many of the deaths reported during the Vietnam War may have been phony. Some news reports claim that the American military killed 3 million Vietnamese. For all we know, most of those dead Vietnamese were "killed" by soldiers who were actually playing cards.

2) The American military believes that they were chased out of Vietnam because there was not enough support for the war among the American people, but they may have been chased out of Vietnam because most American soldiers had no interest in the war.

Now I am ready to ask my questions about the Vietnam War:

# Did Americans really kill 3 million Vietnamese?

# How many Vietnamese were killed by Americans, and how many were killed by other Vietnamese?


Am I anti-Vietnamese for asking those questions? Have I ruined my reputation or the reputation of other 9/11 researchers for asking those questions? Am I anti-American for asking those questions? Am I a Vietnam War Denier for asking those questions?

If it is acceptable for me to ask questions about dental fillings and the Vietnam War, why can't I ask questions about Apollo or World War II?


Case 2: Apollo and the Holocaust are indeed hoaxes.

It should be obvious that if these are hoaxes, then the pressure on me to shut my mouth is to prevent me from exposing the lies.




The truth does not need suppression

The US military has no reason to hide information about the Vietnam War... if they want the truth about the war to be known.

However, if they want to hide the truth, then they will need to suppress people, questions, and evidence. The same applies to the North Vietnamese and Chinese governments. The only way we will really know what was going on with that war is if all of the governments stop their suppression of information.

Governments justify their suppression of information on the grounds that they are protecting national security. In reality, every government is protecting their incompetence, their criminal activity, and their embarrassing mistakes.



It is OK to discuss the Vietnam War

There is nothing wrong with asking questions about the Vietnam War, and there is nothing wrong with asking how many people died.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions about the Civil War, either, and there's nothing wrong with asking if George Washington really did have his missing teeth replaced with pieces of wood, and whether he really did chop down a cherry tree.

So why is it wrong to ask questions about what was going on inside those Nazi prison camps? Why is it wrong to ask how many Jews died in those prison camps? If Jews have nothing to hide, why are they trying to stop people from discussing this issue? Why don't they proudly announce to the world,


"Go ahead and look closely at the Nazi prison camps. You will find that we Jews have been honest about them; that we have been telling you the truth."



I don't see how we are helping the human race by remaining silent on any issue.

How about if you look into Apollo and the Holocaust, and you decide for yourself if they are hoaxes. I have some documents on my Internet site to get you started, such as this page (http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm), which is one in a series of articles here (http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies_Underdogs_Main.html)..

[smurfslappa]

Haha, he got jailed for saying the holocaust didn't happen.

[XerxesX]

Nursey said
The truth can be placed in the open; exposed naked to the entire world. The truth does not need any laws to protect it, and it does not need secrecy to protect it. :lol:

There is not [/u]one truth. Just like there is not one lie. The different players have truths that relate to eachother. And the shadows were lies appear are not one evil.

The story you mention where that cute Kuwaiti princess, allready in London, plays the part was a strategical mediamove on behalf of a clan. Sorry ! Country. They acted in selfdefence.

The truth can not stand on the playing field. Someone will kill it imediately.
The truth needs guards and certain truths/lies are said to hold a hell of a lot of bioware. If the wrong truths face the right lies we do no longer speak of theories of democratisation and a level look at the human developement index.

[Nursey]

There is not [/u]one truth. Just like there is not one[u] lie.

Tut! Is that what your 'handlers' told you? :? No wonder you're so fragmented, you poor soul.

[Nursey]

There are many lies, but only One Truth.

[chester grape]

There are many lies, but only One Truth.

That's hardly very trendy or post-structuralist of you, Nursey.

[Nursey]

That's hardly very trendy or post-structuralist of you, Nursey.

I know. Terrible, isn't it? It was fun when people thought i was cool. :|

[XerxesX]

There are many lies, but only One Truth. But the general unification theory aside. .... There are interpretations that do not fit eachother. Differences of perception that ,( if not objectively true ), are at least true as memes. Representing truth for billions.

There is only one G-d and Muhammed is his profet ( peace ) and Israel is his choosen people. and so on and so forth.

Here is one truth:
By keeping poor societies artificially alive, we create more suffering since those unable to adapt still reproduce. Humanitarian aid creates suffering ad infinitum and is a disaster for wildlife.

[diogenes]

So what you're trying to say is that there is no fact XerxesX. Don't be a fool. Either it happened or it didn't. The fact that people argue over details menas that people are petty and subjective. That doesn't mean that "objective" truth doesn't exist, if just means you have your head to far up your ass to see it.

[XerxesX]

Diogenes wrote
So what you're trying to say is that there is no fact XerxesX. Don't be a fool. Either it happened or it didn't. The fact that people argue over details menas that people are petty and subjective. That doesn't mean that "objective" truth doesn't exist, if just means you have your head to far up your ass to see it.

Ther are indeed facts. But the facts arent allway those if niceties and who did the most bad in what order.
To argue over details is not neccesarily petty and subjective. I the real world, seeing everything throug the eyes of a newly awakened theoritician is an exercise in subjective analytical wanking. ( Or having ones head to far up...)

The truth of facts must include the room were we can not yet speak. And attempts to raise the silence must start with the softest voices. Like cartoons of Muhammed and Holocaust. ( I have seen JesusChrist%Co, A good atheistic cartoon about christianity ).

Another kind of fact is the difference in logistical power and coherrence of response between the paramilitary jihaadi-mujjaheddin parties, and all their ( potential ) enemies.
Exept those in the Darfur of Sudan and civilians in Indonesia.

[XerxesX]

As for it either happened or it did not. That is right. But in the world of proof and politics its different, and we were discussing truth in a political sense I believe.

The science of history shows good examples of this. The focus changes with interpretation, and the percieved truth along with it.
( For 90% of recipients of interpretation ) Those of the one truth
( Perception ) are most likely to dominate policymaking and beliefe in that one truth then is a sure recipe for aggression.

[chester grape]

Here is one truth:
By keeping poor societies artificially alive, we create more suffering since those unable to adapt still reproduce. Humanitarian aid creates suffering ad infinitum and is a disaster for wildlife.

That's hardly a "truth". More of a theory, or a prediction.

Your inhumane determinism aside, weren't we discussing whether or not an event (e.g. Holocaust, moon landing, plane into the Pentagon) has actually happened? Rather than what might happen if we perform or refuse to perform certain actions?

[XerxesX]

Thanks for the reminder :)
The Apollo-ten money went somewere else ( I believe ).
Holocaust-denial is booring. Cant someone denie Nacht und Nebel ? Damn !
I should have found better "truths"
:?

[Joeslogic]

The truth does not need protection? The truth seems to be one of the more elusive things around these days. And the truth is under more attack than most. The best way to protect the truth is education of the people and a built in ability to reason for ones self rather than be influenced by fringe web pages.

[XerxesX]

I thought it was "leftleaningmainstream media" ?

[Joeslogic]

another way of looking at it, I would not argue against.

[diogenes]

XerxesX wrote...

As for it either happened or it did not. That is right. But in the world of proof and politics its different, and we were discussing truth in a political sense I believe.

There is no truth in politics. Only spin.

[Joeslogic]

I think it is beneficial to defend some irrefutable truths. Interesting though Nursey that you sarcastically attack this while defending everything the Muslims do. Muhammad was a sick pervert this is a truth. So go ahead to Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Uzbekistan... running out of countries off the top of my head where openly walking around and proclaiming this truth would be a fatal action but you get the point and I'm sure your understand why.

Notice I said fatal action not fatal mistake. Dying for a good cause that is “true” is only a mistake if it has no positive effect and was simply a waste. But if they corralled me out into the town square and asked me to proclaim Islam as my faith or face a beheading as they often do to non-Muslims I would like to think that I would take the beheading. Dying with my honor and dignity would be a good reason.

However the crap you are talking about here does not even compare. Do you subscribe to a theory that the Holocaust never happened?

[Nursey]

I think it is beneficial to defend some irrefutable truths.

Truth doesn't need 'defended'. Honoured, maybe. But truth is truth whether it is defended or not. People can attempt to distort it, but you can't actually change truth, just hide it or confuse the paths that lead to it. But that still won't change it or make it go away.

Interesting though Nursey that you sarcastically attack this while defending everything the Muslims do.

Huh? I attacked nothing, and was totally unsarcastic. I just posted an article which mirrors concepts that make sense to me.

Muhammad was a sick pervert this is a truth.

How do you know? Is that what Anne Coulter says?

However the crap you are talking about here does not even compare. Do you subscribe to a theory that the Holocaust never happened?


This thread is primarily about the principles of truth and imprisoning someone for their views, not the validity of the official estimated numbers killed in the holocaust, or whether there was a holocaust which should have a thread to itself. But since you asked, on the information i've amssed so far, my belief is that nasty stuff happened, to all sorts of people including Jews, but that the nasty stuff has been used and manipulated for a political groups ulterior aims. Which is as disrespectful to those who perished as the disrespect Zionists accuse anyone who questions the version Zionists promote of being.

The best way to protect the truth is education of the people and a built in ability to reason for ones self rather than be influenced by fringe web pages.

Example of my 'inbuilt ability to reason for myself'...written sometime last year:

If any lines of enquiry i choose to follow are destined to meet with a negative conclusion, then what harm is there in my following them anyway? If you are so sure that i am wrong, then why does it cause such a problem to you to allow me to figure that out for myself? If you are so sure of the outcome of my investigations into something, then why are you not secure enough in that knowledge to just sit back, wait, watch and see as i come to the same conclusion myself, through my own clearly mapped out logic displayed where everyone can see? It's like mathematics. I think the answer to a mathematical theory differs from yours, so i present the whole equation as i see it, piece by piece in order to demonstrate how i managed to get there. If you want to show me the error of my ways, point out to me where i've missed a calculation, be my guest! But don't just outrightly refuse to accept the possibility that YOU MAY BE WRONG by not even trying to see it any other way, not even giving any alternative viewpoint the chance to have a fair say. That only shows that you are not secure enough in your beliefs to challenge them, you fear that they can't hold sway. There is only one truth at the end of the day, but myriad different paths that lead to it. So why, then, does quirying (everyone's entitled to question anything that they have trouble accepting at face value...'nobody is above God' and it is 'God' {or 'Absolute Truth'} we are all answerable to at the end of the day', so i'll make my own mind up) - pose such a threat to something that you claim is absolute? If indeed it is, then what does it have to fear from little ol' me?

Well gosh! Isn't that saying more or less the same as the article on truth i posted at the beginning of this thread one year later? So, does that mean i've to think for myself unless that results in me arriving at the same conclusion as any 'fringe webpage' / 'left leaning media'?

[XerxesX]

Dio wrote
XerxesX wrote...

Quote:
As for it either happened or it did not. That is right. But in the world of proof and politics its different, and we were discussing truth in a political sense I believe.


There is no truth in politics. Only spin.
_________________

We used to have democracy ! We still have good people working in foreign offices in the western world. Your argument is cowardly. It just slaps all the pieces from the board.

Joe ! Muhammed might be a sick pervert. And Jesus might be a weak masochist commie. But so what ?

[smurfslappa]

The holocaust didn't happen, at least not how everyone thinks it did. Those damn jews did it themselves, so they could garner support and establish Israel again. Fuck them for that, and fuck their shitty little shithole country that's become a fucking nuclear superpower, and fuck the people that wanted it there so they went through all these great lengths to put it there.

[XerxesX]

Smurf wrote
Those damn jews did it themselves, so they could garner support and establish Israel again.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????

[Joeslogic]

Nursey wrote:
People can attempt to distort it, but you can't actually change truth, just hide it or confuse the paths that lead to it. But that still won't change it or make it go away.


In many Chinese homes the public school system has convinced the people that Americans were never on the moon.

In many Muslim homes children believe without a shadow of doubt that the holocaust never happened.

Check put Smurfs post ..... see proof positive. By implementing an intricate web of lies over a span of time you can wear down the truth, change the truth, hide-confuse the truth, and eventually just simply make it go away. The fact that you cannot see this is scary.

But it did sound all wise and philosophical and all. I just did not fall for it.

[XerxesX]

REM has allso convinced many that you never were on the Moon. Most willl believe that certain sets of hypotheses are "truth". That is the weakness of this debate.
Of course the truth exists. How real is it if nobody remembers it or there are umpteen versions vying for attention :?

[Nursey]

You misunderstand Joe. You gave me examples of truth being hidden, or the paths to it being distorted in order to prevent people reaching it with ease, but that doesn't alter the fact that somewhere the truth remains. And even when it isn't readily apparent, it still exists. Evidence can be destroyed / corrupted, eg. the remains of the WTC or historical artefacts in the 'cradle of civilisation' or , and so evidence needs defended.

[Joeslogic]

Xerx
How real is it if nobody remembers it or there are umpteen versions vying for attention

When this happens truth is defeated. This is something that occurs all of the time.

Nursey
Evidence can be destroyed / corrupted, eg. the remains of the WTC or historical artefacts in the 'cradle of civilisation' or , and so evidence needs defended.

Evidence is truth in its purest form. Often it is not the whole picture but simply bits and pieces. Evidence should be treated with the utmost respect less it be misused and therefore destroy any pursuit of the truth.

Truths unattained are truths defeated.

[smurfslappa]

No duh idiot, like all the evidence that 9/11 was staged, and probably by some old white guys here in the US. Or that hurricanes and tornadoes are electric phenomena. Or that there's an economic collapse soon to befall us. I guess some people are selective when it comes to reviewing the evidence.

[XerxesX]

But Slapper
Dont you think they have prepared the stage for a cheat and continue with world economy. ( If what you suggest, that happened 911 and it can easy happen again ).

[smurfslappa]

We're living the cheat right now. And all these past wars and all the bully tactics we've used and advanced money laundering schemes through loosely regulated hedge funds have been helpful in maintaining this cheat, but it could only go on for so long. It's been a good ride, and I really have to give these guys a pat on the back for making us the most critical piece in this world economy, they did an awesome job.

You really won't understand why it's been set up like this, or why it can't be avoided until you have Smurf-vision. The people who represent us are trying to lift torture bans, go to war to maintain our fat gluttonous life-styles, we're violent and greedy, we don't sign agreements to restrict pollution, and we disrespect other people's cultures and customs. Having the world hate us and blame all their woes on us for what's coming is the last chapter in this Book of Us, and it's been masterfuly set up.

[XerxesX]

The truth about Muhammeds life needs censorship. He was a massmurderer that took women as sex-slaves after killing of their male relatives.
This should be hidden in light of his role as hero to a billion people. The jews were killed because they laughed when he misquoted scriptures. That was a serious mistake, but it allso means that mistakes in quoting must be kept a secret.

"The truth is out there. Luckily not here"

[smurfslappa]

But Slapper
Dont you think they have prepared the stage for a cheat and continue with world economy. ( If what you suggest, that happened 911 and it can easy happen again ).

Stupid.

[Nursey]

By implementing an intricate web of lies over a span of time you can wear down the truth, change the truth, hide-confuse the truth, and eventually just simply make it go away. The fact that you cannot see this is scary.

But it did sound all wise and philosophical and all. I just did not fall for it.

Let's see if you'll 'fall for' this then...

Introduction: The Metaphysics of Space & the Wave Structure of Matter (http://www.spaceandmotion.com/)

I must admit that I have spent considerable time thinking about writing an introduction to this website on Truth and Reality. As a philosopher these concepts are central to all the work I do. Unfortunately, I happen to live at a time where 'reality' is more closely associated with 'reality TV' (surely not the high point of human culture!), and it seems everyone is entitled to their own truths, no matter how fanciful they may be (the joy of 'relative truth'). It is almost deemed insulting to some, to suggest that there is a physical reality, and as a consequence, absolute truths that are necessarily derived from this reality. When considered though, this postmodern view of 'no absolute truths' is rather strange, because people, generally, don't jump out of windows thinking they can fly, as they recognise this absolute truth of gravity and the resultant risk of injury or death. And there are many examples of these absolute truths in daily life that we must abide by to survive, e.g. sleeping, eating, breathing, etc.
So my first point is that there are absolute truths, founded on physical reality, and these are clearly important for our survival.


"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself." -
-- Thomas Jefferson



WHAT IS TRUTH? (http://home.earthlink.net/~truth/sec2-1Truth.html)
.
truth (a noun):

1. the quality or state of being true
2. that which is true; statement, etc. that accords with fact or reality
3. an established or verified fact, principle, etc.
4. a particular belief or teaching regarded by the speaker as the true one


Truth is Supreme:

Truth lacks nothing.
Cannot be improved upon.
It is sound, flawless, excellent, pure,
Strong in its own strength.
Truth is Absolutely Perfect.


Truth Invites Scrutiny:

Truth stands on its own merits,
Doesn't shrink from inquiry,
Doesn't fear test or trials,
For it contains nothing false...
The Truth has nothing to hide.


Truth Is Not Affected By:

Examination or Investigation,
Criticism or Condemnation,
Questions or Doubt,
Feelings or Wishful Thinking,
Approval or Disapproval,
Appreciation or Recognition,
Acceptance, Rejection or Denial.


Truth Cannot Be Altered or Eliminated:

Not by time or chance,
Nor with words or money.
Truth cannot be harmed or killed,
Nor eradicated or annihilated.
For Truth is indestructible,
Will never perish, cannot die,
Truth endures forever.

Truth cannot be erased or modified,
Is established, constant, fixed,
Remains the same and ever will remain...
For Truth is incorruptible.
His Truth endures to ALL generations, Ps. 100:5


Truth Is Not Influenced or Offended By:

The process of discovery,
Nor by the personality, motives
Or emotions of the source
Expressing or exposing it.

So delve into it and prove it.
Question, doubt, test and check;
Investigate, explore, probe and examine,
Research, challenge, verify and confirm,
Analyze, evaluate and judge.


The Truth will come forth as gold.

Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding, Prov. 23:23

Truth is the property of no individual,but is the treasure of all men. Author Unknown


Truth Is Feared:

Some go to great lengths...
To conceal, disguise or obscure the Truth.
To squelch, cover up, obstruct or hinder it.
Some attempt to restore or revive it.
Others to remodel, replace or redesign it,
Using deception, dishonesty and omission;
Substituting half-Truths, fabrications,
Fables. Who are they fooling?
Those who change Truth into a lie
Have nothing to fear...
But Time and Truth,
For the Truth will Out.


Truth Is Truth, Regardless Of:

Who perceives it, or fails to recognize it;
Who understands it or misunderstands it;
Who agrees or disagrees with it;
Who believes or disbelieves it;
Who accepts, objects or rejects it;
Who is convinced or unconvinced of it;

Who accuses or excuses it;
Who proves it or seeks to disprove it;
Who opposes, challenges, questions or doubts it;
Who misinterprets, misconstrues, perverts or distorts it.

Whether it is spoken, written or acted out;
Whether it is withheld, omitted, falsified;
Whether it is expressed, suppressed, or unexpressed;
Whether it is disputed, contested or tried;
Whether it is covered up or uncovered;
Whether it is revealed or concealed.

For Truth is Truth...independently of man.




Truth is always consistent with itself, and needs nothing to help it out; it is always near at hand and sits upon our lips, and is ready to drop out before we are aware; whereas a lie is troublesome, and sets a man's invention on the track, and one trick needs a great many more of the same kind to make it good.
-- John Tillotson



"Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty."
-- Tacitus


"A man may imagine things that are false, but he can only understand things that are true, for if the things be false, the apprehension of them is not understanding."
-- Isaac Newton

[chester grape]

"A man may imagine things that are false, but he can only understand things that are true, for if the things be false, the apprehension of them is not understanding."
-- Isaac Newton

Interesting, though, this one. Because, for example, Newton "understood" his laws of physics, and no doubt would have insisted upon their 'truth'.

But of course Einstein's work showed that Newton's laws were only 'approximately true' ... which then created a 'new truth'.

Of course, this 'new truth' has since been challenged by contemporary physicists, and so it goes.

I'm not saying therefore there is no truth. Just that the truth can be very evasive, and requires immense interrogation. It's also difficult to ever be 100% sure you've found it.

[Nursey]

I'm not saying therefore there is no truth. Just that the truth can be very evasive, and requires immense interrogation. It's also difficult to ever be 100% sure you've found it.

True.

[diogenes]

XerxesX wrote...

We used to have democracy ! We still have good people working in foreign offices in the western world. Your argument is cowardly. It just slaps all the pieces from the board.

Explain. I'm saying that there is no truth in politics, only spin. My justification for that statement is that the political system should be objective, with it's main goal being the distribution of resources alloted to the government in the means that would derive the most benefit for said governments citizens. Seeing as how govenment is not an objective being, and it's goal is to push resources into it's subjective idea of what is best for it's citizens (and the survival of the govenment itself) means that it must spin truth in order to justify those opinions. All politicians ignore evidence, based on personal bias. Tell me where the truth in politics is XerxesX?

[XerxesX]

Slapper wrote
Quote:
But Slapper
Dont you think they have prepared the stage for a cheat and continue with world economy. ( If what you suggest, that happened 911 and it can easy happen again ).


Stupid.
_________________

Moron. Your have not thought through your hypthesis.

When groupal interest can be debated without it resorting to a screaming-contest. When diplomats can talk without the cameras and when the subjective human experience becomes a lesson of objective human study. The truth of our needs as opposed to the lies we propagate to feed our greed.

[chester grape]

I'm not saying therefore there is no truth. Just that the truth can be very evasive, and requires immense interrogation. It's also difficult to ever be 100% sure you've found it.

True.

Oh, the irony. 8)

[smurfslappa]

Moron. Your have not thought through your hypthesis.

Ummm, yeah I think I have. Right after you said, "Dont you think they have prepared the stage for a cheat and continue with world economy." I said, "We're living in the cheat right now."

I've had plenty of time to think about this economic depression, and it's not just my hypothesis, many others share it. Like all the people that are snatching up gold right now, I'm sure they foresee the eventual demise of currency. There are many things our government has done to stall the depression, using a vast array of techniques. From lowering interest rates to create a housing bubble to using loosely regulated hedge funds to buy up our own debt.

It's not a hypothesis, it's a fact. Look at how Bush is splurging money, and how every country is pulling away from the US. The system is doomed and we're all screwed.

[XerxesX]

If you are caught then the scam does not work. If the "cheat" is considered the real thing it might continuead infinitum.

[smurfslappa]

No Xerxes, this kind of cheat can't go on forever... just apply a little thought into it, that's all I ask. Do some research on the coming depression. Damn. The people of the world eventually realize how bad things are, how worthless all this stacked up money is, and get pissed.

[XerxesX]

Yes we get pissed , then we act, then the action gets incorporated into the multitude. The them are not percieved as the same entity by any group large enough to rock the boat, and the picture of them is never close enough to give a match.
Any meme preesenting them close-up would be a political super-meme and that is not allowed. It would be aborted , taken over, and changed into another little sect. In most cases it would go that way quite naturally. Jusat a small nudge, if anything. We are fed with myths made to maintain the status quo and the group-hierarchy. There are good reasons for this, even though it sucks.

[XerxesX]

If the people of the world eventually gets that pissed , then a lot of the people of the world will die ! That will not touch the basic structures of tradition.
In addition to reading a bit. ( Though give me a few names and i wil check on it ) , I have met field-opperatives of a few quite major players and I played myself for a whil ( Juts dont ask me how, I dont know, stubbornness and stupidity. People are likely to get hurt you know. For real ).
Lets rather say that the big structurews can be ourr friends and that we can play along and influence subtly. Armed revolution is for pantpissed kindergarten-intellectuals and their victims. Evolution through education about the use of language asd weapon is the thing

[smurfslappa]

If the people of the world eventually gets that pissed , then a lot of the people of the world will die ! That will not touch the basic structures of tradition.

A lot of people will die. Shit's fucked up, and right now the United States is taking in way more than it's putting out. In addition, we're spending all the money everyone else is throwing at us to rape and pillage even more. That goes against basic tradition, and that will end. And if we go down, everyone else does too.

http://www.markswatson.com/Depression1205.html

Here, read that Xerxes. It's the latest update in a series of articles about the coming depression, so you might have to backtrack a little to catch up. But you'll see why it's going to happen, and why all your notions about why it won't happen are dumb.

[XerxesX]

I do not doubt somebody will pay a price. That is something else. If the usual group pays it, its business as usual.
I repeat, that the uniquefeature about the US central seserve is its mandate to print as much dollars as they see fit.
This feature has no clear precedent in world history. There are certain flaws with on one side: The have a BIG plan and on the other side; they are going down due to an analysis based on the surface ( small plan ), interpretation of events :wink:

[smurfslappa]

What the hell are you talking about? Yeah I caught the "no clear precedent" part, and there has been another instance where someone tried that: Weimar Republic.

The rest just sounds like "Chompa chomp, Cha-cha-chompa chomp."

[XerxesX]

USA is no tidbit european nation with a midget army and armed fighting in the streets.
I do not see ONE conspiracy , but those that are real, exert influence. THis shape world events. IF enough clout believed that a piece of "weimar"or"nazi"( interpretations vary) USA they would still not go to the front singing:
" We will hang all our laundry on the siegfried-line and roar , roar , roar. With lucifers lights to guide our way , off to war we go".

There is to much invested in the USA. You can still build a lot of dept. The americam tax-payer is credit-worthy and you still have many assets.

But thanks for the fact about the weimar-republic :!: