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diogenes
02-13-2006, 10:27 PM
Check this out...

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: Be sure of what you're shooting at. He also violated Texas game law by failing to buy a hunting stamp.

Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.

Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself - something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for avoiding other people.

"It's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."

The Parks and Wildlife Department said Cheney and Whittington will be given warning citations for violating game law by not having an upland game bird stamp, a requirement that went into effect in September. Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license, the vice president's office said Monday night in a statement, and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp.

Cheney, an experienced hunter, has not commented publicly about the accident. He avoided reporters by leaving an Oval Office meeting with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan before the press was escorted in.

President Bush was told about Cheney's involvement in the accident shortly before 8 p.m. Saturday - about an hour after it occurred - but the White House did not disclose the accident until Sunday afternoon, and then only in response to press questions. Press secretary Scott McClellan said he did not know until Sunday morning that Cheney had shot someone.

Facing a press corps upset that news had been withheld, McClellan said, "I think you can always look back at these issues and look at how to do a better job."

Katharine Armstrong, the owner of the ranch where the shooting occurred, said she told Cheney on Sunday morning that she was going to inform the local paper, the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. She said he agreed, and the newspaper reported it on its Web site Sunday afternoon.

Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said that about an hour after Cheney shot Whittington, the head of the Secret Service's local office called the Kenedy County sheriff to report the accident. "They made arrangements at the sheriff's request to have deputies come out and interview the vice president the following morning at 8 a.m. and that indeed did happen," Zahren said.

At least one deputy showed up at the ranch's front gate later in the evening and asked to speak to Cheney but was turned away by the Secret Service, Zahren said. There was some miscommunication that arrangements had already been made to interview the vice president, he said.

Gilbert San Miguel, chief deputy sheriff for Kenedy County, said the report had not been completed Monday and that it was being handled as a hunting accident, although he would not comment about what that meant they were investigating.

He said his department's investigation had found that alcohol was not a factor in the shooting, but he would not elaborate about how that had been determined. The Texas Parks and Wildlife hunting accident report also said neither Cheney nor Whittington appeared to be under the influence of intoxicants or drugs.

Whittington, a prominent Republican attorney in the Texas capital of Austin, was in stable condition at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial and was moved from intensive care to a "step-down unit" Monday. Doctors decided to leave several birdshot pellets lodged in his skin rather than try to remove them.

Armstrong said the accident occurred toward the end of the hunt, as darkness was encroaching and they were preparing to go inside. Whittington was retrieving from tall grass a bird he had shot.

Cheney and another hunter, Pamela Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland, moved on to another covey of quail - Armstrong estimated it was roughly 100-150 yards away - and Cheney fired on a bird just as Whittington rejoined them. She said Whittington was in tall grass and thick brush about 30 yards away, which made it difficult for Cheney to see him, although both men were wearing bright-orange safety vests. She said Whittington made a mistake by not vocally announcing that he had walked up to rejoin the hunting line.

Armstrong said she saw Cheney's security detail running toward the scene. "The first thing that crossed my mind was he had a heart problem," she told The Associated Press.

She said Cheney stayed "close but cool" while the agents and medical personnel treated Whittington, then took him away via ambulance to the hospital. Later, the hunting group sat down for dinner while Whittington was being treated, receiving updates from a family member at the hospital. Armstrong described Cheney's demeanor during dinner as "very worried" about Whittington.

Duane Harvey, president of the Wisconsin Hunter Education Instructors Association, said if Whittington had made his presence known "that would have been a polite thing to do." But, he added, "it's still the fault upon the shooter to identify his target and what is beyond it."

Despite all the safety tips and training, hunting accidents are an unfortunate part of the sport. In Texas, there were 30 accidents and two hunting deaths last year, according to the state Parks and Wildlife Department. National figures kept by the International Hunter Education Association show 744 shooting accidents, with 74 deaths, in 2002, the last year for which figures were available. Twenty-six accidents involving quail hunting were reported.

The association estimates there are 15.7 million hunters who will spend about 250 million days hunting in the United States this year.

Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal, a Democrat, said the accident wouldn't keep him from going on a bipartisan hunt with Cheney. "I would be proud to hunt with the vice president - cautious, but proud," he told reporters.

---

Associated Press writers Elizabeth White in Washington, T.A. Badger in Sarita, Texas, Jim Vertuno in Austin, Lynn Brezosky in Corpus Christi and Dan Lewerenz in Cheyenne, Wyo., contributed to this report.

---

On the Net:

The White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov

Yeah, I love the good old U.S. of A.

Joeslogic
02-13-2006, 11:12 PM
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.parcol11.0003.ImageFile.jpg

So the press is giddy all of a sudden and having a field day about it. Basic rules of quail hunting dictate that the hunters cross a field either use dogs or kick the brush to spook a quail into flight. It’s a bit of a rush requiring lightening quick reaction the quail are very well camouflaged. The idea when crossing the field is that the shooters stay in an even line not to go ahead no man moves faster then the slowest. The reason is then you know where your clear shot is. If you are open to the side then that is a plus because the quail are liable to fly in an arch and head back towards other shooters and you miss a shot. Someone walking up on a shooter should identify himself. A few birdshots at so many yards are not the big deal you would imagine generally. In hunting people get shot sometimes no big deal really. The thing about Shotguns is at a distance the area that a person could get hit can be quite large.

They can have fun with it I mean they all hate the vice president. But remember that their opinion is not reflective of the opinion of the general public. The whole bonanza of giddy fun poking can backfire on them in terms of credibility.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 12:39 AM
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distshotpatt.htm

For the sake of understanding birdshot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/A_dist1.jpg
Typical for something like quail would be #8 shot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/ss7.jpg
larger #7.5 shot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/ssoo.jpg
Buckshot (typical stuff you see a guy get blown away at the movies but even thats fake. Check the tookie Williams post to see a worst case scenario of close range with a sawed off shotgun using buckshot)
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/spat28.jpg
Unsure of the gage and choke used but this was at 28 feet.
Look at that test pattern and judge that the other hunter was hit with approximately 10 pellets between his face to his torso. He was coming up from the side after crouching to retrieve a bird. The distance had to be pretty good. We are talking give the guy a band aid here. I have popped bee bees out like popping a zit before and birdshot is like a tenth the size.

Now that you are informed somewhat better. Sit back and observe the misinformation and innuendo.

diogenes
02-14-2006, 05:53 AM
I just think it's funny that the vice president shot someone in the face. How do you say that's no big deal? Do you realise the implications of that for comedic purposes. Not to mention, shooting someone in the face is probably a bigger deal than lying about getting a blow-job. I've gotten a blow-job, I've never shot anyone in the face, with anything. Except the by-product of a blowjob, but that's Mayhem material.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 01:37 PM
Sure it is funny when taken out of context.

My only point is that people have not a clue about firearms and the whole "face" deal is he got hit in the face neck and torso. With less than 1% of the shot at a distance means that the vice presidents muzzle was pointed at least a few yards away from the idiot that did not make himself known to be in the area.

But the implication made, and your guilty of it also is that "The vice president of the U.S. pointed a gun right into the face of his hunting partner and pulled the trigger."

I just laid out the facts for you to see. I did not argue that it could be fodder for the comedians especially given the misconceptions it alludes to.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 02:38 PM
A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. "Another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired, striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approximately 30 yards," the report said.

ten pellets at 30 yards means he could have pulled the trigger with the gun pointed 5 yards away in either direction.

smurfslappa
02-14-2006, 02:48 PM
It could also mean: Don't fuck with Cheney :evil:

smiles
02-14-2006, 02:55 PM
A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. "Another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired, striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approximately 30 yards," the report said.

ten pellets at 30 yards means he could have pulled the trigger with the gun pointed 5 yards away in either direction.

joe you;ve been rigth all along..... cahney didnt do it... he's innocent..... it was the media..... a camermaman was dressed as a quail and tried attacking that lawyer.... cheney was just trying to defend his friend from the beast...... the rest was just friendly fire.... most unfortunate, but sacrefices must be made.... for freedom *tear* GOD BLESS US EVERYONE

diogenes
02-14-2006, 03:27 PM
I don't hear anyone saying that Cheney intentionally shot the guy in the face. All I hear is jokes along the lines of "Duck, it's Dick". Which I think are hilarious by the way. Anyone who would tell a Senator, on the Senate floor, to go fuck himself if capable of shooting someone in the face. I bet they turn it around and blame it on the highly partisan shotgun he was using. I bet it was manufactured by democrats to fire into Republicans faces. Don't be an idiot Joe, Cheney shot someone in the face, end of story.

TheGrimJesus
02-14-2006, 03:32 PM
The guy he shot just had a heart attack he has shot lodged in his heart.

diogenes
02-14-2006, 03:42 PM
But Grim, he didn't shoot him, it's that fucking partisan gun and it's vicious attack on our good republican vice president. I don't understand how Joe can say that it isn't really Cheney's fault. No one is saying he did it on purpose, what they are saying, and this is true, is that shot from Cheney's gun hit this man in the face, neck, and chest. No big deal, right. Well Joe, let me volunteer to shoot you in the face, since it's no problem. Right?

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 03:44 PM
He shot in the direction of an individual 30 yards away how was hit by less than 1 percent of the shot in various areas of his body one specifically was the face also the neck and torso.

You want it both ways. Saying Dick Cheney shot a man in the face implies that he stuck a gun in a guys face and pulled a trigger. I referred to the media as the purveyors of misinformation and innuendo. I was correct in doing so. That may ruffle your feathers because you do not desire the truth just the misinformation and innuendo. Its like a lawyer asking the defendant "Is it true you stopped beating your wife last week?" and demanding a simple yes or no answer. If he says yes then case closed it means he did beat his wife. If he never did beat his wife and says no then the implication is that he is in the habit of and will in the future beat his wife. Either way its a play on words "Dick Cheney shot a man in the face".

TheGrimJesus
02-14-2006, 03:48 PM
He shot him, They where hunt without a permit, So basically they where pouching. Plus he tried his best to cover it up. Now I know hunting accidents happen.

I know he did not mean to shoot him, things happen. I know I live in Arkansas the king of hunting accidents also "Hunting Accidents" yes there is a difference. Everyone knows if you want to off someone here invite them hunting. But that's a whole other post.

My problem he was pouching and tried to cover up, Not that he will ever see the inside of a courtroom but he should step down as soon as possible. This is just another example of the old boys club and the rules do not apply the same to the rich as they do too us.

smurfslappa
02-14-2006, 03:51 PM
This dude is toast. Nobody fucks with Cheney.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 03:56 PM
The guy he shot just had a heart attack he has shot lodged in his heart.


Ok so exactly what does that mean? Is that statement totally true? How did shot get "lodged" in his heart?

Was his face shot and the shot ricocheted off of his cheekbone down to his chin then back to a rear vertebra and then through a lung to a front rib bone then "lodge" 2 cm into the muscle tissue of the heart? I mean the guy was shot point blank in the face with a shotgun right?

Or did the guy get hit with ten or so pellets slightly larger then the ball inside a bic medium ballpoint pen. One of which floated around in his torso to eventually irritate the persons heart and cause an irregular beat (theory) temporarily that was never noticed by the person who was saying that he was fit as a fiddle and wanting to go home?

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 04:02 PM
He shot him, They where hunt without a permit, So basically they where pouching. Plus he tried his best to cover it up. Now I know hunting accidents happen.

I know he did not mean to shoot him, things happen. I know I live in Arkansas the king of hunting accidents also "Hunting Accidents" yes there is a difference. Everyone knows if you want to off someone here invite them hunting. But that's a whole other post.

My problem he was pouching and tried to cover up, Not that he will ever see the inside of a courtroom but he should step down as soon as possible. This is just another example of the old boys club and the rules do not apply the same to the rich as they do too us.


Nah he did not have a pouch he never invited his friend the platypus along this time. Or the official whitehouse kangaroo for that matter.

diogenes
02-14-2006, 04:03 PM
Wow Joe, get a job for Fox news doing spin control. This is rediculous. Had Cheney been responsible for what he was doing the guy wouldn't have any "shot" in him to begin with. Is the guy an idiot, yes. But the fact of the matter is Cheney lost his situational awareness while he was firing a gun, and someone got hurt. Cheney shot a man, whether it be by accident or intentional, but it's Cheney's fault since he pulled the trigger. Clinton getting a blowjob hurt absolutely fucking no one. And there was an impeachment trial. Cheney shoots a guy, and the media is using it for disinformation. Funny, how did I know all the details of it then. At no point in this post did I say Cheney was a bad guy, or that he was a horrible person, all I said was Cheney shot someone, and then later said that Cheney shot somone in the face. Which he did.

diogenes
02-14-2006, 04:07 PM
My English in that last post was atrocious. Sorry for any confusion in regards to my butchering of the language.

TheGrimJesus
02-14-2006, 04:07 PM
Joe belives anything that fox tells him, I think Bill should go out and shoot his wife then we would have non stop coverage on Fox about what he had for breakfast and how much iron was in his pee.

Also they would let us know about his entire past and how he should be hung by his nutts and beat like a dirty rug in Itly.

diogenes
02-14-2006, 04:13 PM
Doesn't matter, he needs to acknowledge that Republicans can do wrong. I don't understand the idiocy of trusting one party and not the other, they're all lying sons of bitches, no more so democrats than republicans.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 04:16 PM
To quote myself I have popped bee bees out like popping a zit before and birdshot is like a tenth the size.

Maybe should have been bb's.

When I was growing up we shot each other for fun actually. It don't feel good either can leave a little bruise or blister or even penetrate the skin. (on rare occasion). Just typical child’s play cowboys an Indians out in the woods. We could just use BB-guns Dio. and drop the distance to 10 yards. Shotguns are not very sporting at 30 yards. and if you really want to hit someone at that range you can easily get more then ten pellets to hit. Besides you dramatically increase the odds of taking someone’s eye out. Hasn't your momma ever told you that?

TheGrimJesus
02-14-2006, 04:21 PM
To quote myself I have popped bee bees out like popping a zit before and birdshot is like a tenth the size.

Maybe should have been bb's.

When I was growing up we shot each other for fun actually. It don't feel good either can leave a little bruise or blister or even penetrate the skin. (on rare occasion). Just typical child’s play cowboys an Indians out in the woods. We could just use BB-guns Dio. and drop the distance to 10 yards. Shotguns are not very sporting at 30 yards. and if you really want to hit someone at that range you can easily get more then ten pellets to hit. Besides you dramatically increase the odds of taking someone’s eye out. Hasn't your momma ever told you that?

That does not change the fact the fucker shot someone.

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 04:32 PM
You guys are nuts there is no charge here to defend. I'm not trying to cover for someone that did the "in-defensible". There is no crime here. That silly permit was a 7 dollar fine that Chenney paid. Weather Chenney is innocent or guilty is not even at question here. My point is that the media is taking advantage of ignorance on the part of the general public with regards to firearms and twisting the public’s image on what occurred. That’s all it fits the m.o. for what I usually bitch about and that is media misleading the public.

I'm trying to tell you I have no idea what Fox News has to say about this or most situations I have not watched Fox news in months. The TV stays off when I'm at home when the wife comes home its, Home decor, amazing makeovers, Some E.R. reality show, or any one of various other reality shows. I sometimes watch these. All I do watch are the recorded history, or discovery channel shows as well as "Pinks" on the speed channel. And soon every weekend Nascar on Sunday.

Oh I almost forgot "Everyone Loves Raymond", "King of Queens", "King of the Hill" I sometimes talk Terri into compromising and watching one of these instead of her reality shit that’s it.

smurfslappa
02-14-2006, 04:38 PM
Who gives a damn about your media concerns, Joe? Cheney blasted someone!

Joeslogic
02-14-2006, 04:50 PM
A famous ancient philosopher once told of a man gouging his eyes out swallowing one and inserting the other into his rectum. God wish I had that quote.

TheGrimJesus
02-14-2006, 04:53 PM
He took a gun and shot someone

smurfslappa
02-14-2006, 05:22 PM
Joe you'd make a great PR rep for some future Big Business or President. Always changing the subject, shifting focus off the main point. Always encouraging ignorance, supporting it full heartedly. "Leave it to the professionals to figure out the truth dammit," and "Do you have any proof? Well then it must not be true..." I bet if this dude dies, you'll think nothing of it.

ucicare
02-14-2006, 06:53 PM
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distshotpatt.htm

For the sake of understanding birdshot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/A_dist1.jpg
Typical for something like quail would be #8 shot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/ss7.jpg
larger #7.5 shot
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/ssoo.jpg
Buckshot (typical stuff you see a guy get blown away at the movies but even thats fake. Check the tookie Williams post to see a worst case scenario of close range with a sawed off shotgun using buckshot)
http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/spat28.jpg
Unsure of the gage and choke used but this was at 28 feet.
Look at that test pattern and judge that the other hunter was hit with approximately 10 pellets between his face to his torso. He was coming up from the side after crouching to retrieve a bird. The distance had to be pretty good. We are talking give the guy a band aid here. I have popped bee bees out like popping a zit before and birdshot is like a tenth the size.

Now that you are informed somewhat better. Sit back and observe the misinformation and innuendo.


Good info Joe.

I do not hunt, but my brother does. He said that getting "sprayed" while bird hunting is just a hazard of the sport.


Barry

diogenes
02-14-2006, 08:26 PM
No doubt it's a hazard of the sport, people get hit with bird-shot. He's jumping out of the woodwork to defend Cheney on a charge I never leveled, that no one leveled actually. Cheney shot somebody, it's not a big deal, he just shot somebody, they're going to live. It's just funny that the veep blasted someone. And he's acting like I'm sending the guy to trial for the Nicole Simpson murders. Of all the shit Cheney's done that he could be prosecuted for this is number 99 on a list of 100. It's just funny.

XerxesX
02-14-2006, 09:06 PM
Dio
[/quote]I've gotten a blow-job, I've never shot anyone in the face, with anything. Except the by-product of a blowjob,

Just tells that you are partial and not objective when comparing poaching accidents vs blowjobs.
Smurf
He took a gun and shot someone
He took a lot of money, but its not sure he stole the gun. He could have borrowed it from another poacher or the lord of the manor, before poaching comenced.

Maybe the bushman in question was stalking the president and Dick shot his load ? Who knows. Its not like its the iranian oilexchange. Maybe the no-spin zone would tell us whats really going on :idea:

diogenes
02-14-2006, 09:16 PM
Huh, that sounded like XerxesX, you wanna try that again? I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about now.

XerxesX
02-14-2006, 09:25 PM
The quoteunquote is opposite.

But if you have been blown, and not shot, that shapes your perception.

And Slapper said he TOOK a gun. I claim that its not proven that the visepresident STOLE the gun before poaching. He could have coerced the lord of the manor or bribed him or plain threatened with exclusion from some club or shady businessdeal. Its just like Joe says. Its not neccesarily that bad. And the other poachers should have warned him. How much shooting.time do you think he got those few times he was down at the big range in Iraq ? The man is visepresident in the hunters lodge and he is supposed to give out the trophees, not harvest them for himself :P

diogenes
02-14-2006, 09:45 PM
Okay, that was much clearer. No Rosetta Stone needed.

diogenes
02-15-2006, 06:59 AM
How long do you think it will be till Cheney comes out with a Gangsta rap album now. He's got some serious street cred. I mean, he blasted some fool in the face. :twisted:

smurfslappa
02-15-2006, 09:46 AM
Fuck yeah, and when the dude lived, he got him offed while he was still in the hospital. That part to come later.

Joeslogic
02-15-2006, 10:01 AM
Barry said Good info Joe.

I do not hunt, but my brother does. He said that getting "sprayed" while bird hunting is just a hazard of the sport.


Barry


Exactly but to here these guys tell it. Should have been. "I do not hunt, but my brother does. He said that getting "A shot gun muzzle shoved up your nose and filling your face with lead" while bird hunting is just a hazard of the sport."

diogenes
02-15-2006, 05:09 PM
I know you feel the need to look out for poor defenseless Dick Cheney, aka "The Punisher", but I never said he intenionally shot the guy in the face, nor did I say the guy suffered major injuries. I posted a story and said "I love the good old U.S. of A." actually. I can't imagine what other country this would happen in. You need to take some Midol and have a seat Joe.