The Dutch disagree (for once)

[SPOooOn]

For the first time in recorded history the Netherlands did not agree with Dubya & Blair. Our dark lord, Balkenende (the one who looks like harry potter) says that the media have to have freedom of speech, no matter the subject. We are breaking free!! . oh wait . .we aren't .There's still some bullets to catch over in Afghanistan. Yes mister Bush, we'll be on the plane tomorrow, mister Bush.

How can that bastard have so much influence. If he wants to get his own soldiers shot to hell, be my guest, but leave our little incompetent army (Kosovo anyone?) out of it. We all know what will happen, because our secret service (AIVD) accidentally(?) leaked some classified reports saying we'd just as well shoot ourselves in the head over here, which'd save us the trouble of flying a bunch of apaches over, and getting shot in the head over there. But still we're going. Is this what democracy is all about? I thought it was supposed to be one man one vote, but the dutch populace doesn't want them to go and they're already on the plane.. :(

Time for a revolution I think.. Now to get me a gun..

[diogenes]

I'm assuming you live in the Netherlands, and that's why your English is so much better than everyone else in these forums.

[SPOooOn]

Yes I live in Tulip Central. .strange though.. .I can't decide if you're being sarcastic or not. . :D

[diogenes]

For once actually, I'm not being sarcastic.

[SPOooOn]

Hmm .. Must be my amazingly huge brain then.. the part of it that's still working :) God, I really have to stop drinking. .

They're thinking about changing our political system to the one they have in england, right now its more like the US (only smaller. .much smaller :P)

I think we could use the change, and I like the debates better over in blighty

[diogenes]

Depends on where your at. In rural America the people are fucking morons half the time. In the cities, they're fucking morons but they debate much more nicely.

[SPOooOn]

Depends on where your at. In rural America the people are fucking morons half the time. In the cities, they're fucking morons but they debate much more nicely.

Same here.. but smaller :P .. anyway, would you prefer a two party system, or the one we have ( a structure built up of several small groups, where the largest group or alliance gets the lead ) Ours is fucked up in my opinion, they'll bicker among themselves about literally everything . .without ever getting anything done. But I guess its the same everywhere.

[diogenes]

Yeah, we only have a 2 party system, but since there are over 500 members from the 2 parties trying to make decisions they bicker over everything anyway. The glory of a Representative Republic.

[SPOooOn]

There's only 70 or 80 in England right? And I think they're quite happy with the way things are done over there.. in comparison to holland or the US..

[diogenes]

The opposite of progress is congress. Go figure.

[SPOooOn]

So, why do you vote?

[diogenes]

Because I want a say in who's bickering on my behalf.

[SPOooOn]

And did it ever get you anything? I'm not trying to convinc eyou to stop voting or anything, just interested. trying to see the other guy's point of view sort of thing

[diogenes]

no, I almost always vote for the guy who loses. I never like the guy in office, so I vote for the other guy and the incumbent almost always wins.

[SPOooOn]

incumbant = the one already in office ? My english's alright, but not that good :D

[diogenes]

yes, the incumbent is the one already in office.

[SPOooOn]

so your voting doesn't get you anywhere. . doesnt that piss you off

[diogenes]

not really. I look at it this way, I participate in the system, so I have a valid say in what goes on, be they right or wrong in doing things on my behalf. If I don't participate in the system, I have no say at all. So every 2 years I vote, which I feel gives me the right to bitch about all politicians, everywhere, even the ones I didn't vote for. It's a bitch about the government pass, which just happens to be one of my favorite things to go in to ranting fits over. On a serious note though, my voting did get me somewhere, I expressed my view, however small and insignificant that may be, to those in power. If I, and enough like minded people vote, then we will eventually see the change we wish to see take effect. So that's the real reason I vote. The ranting and bitching is just icing on the cake.

[SPOooOn]

I see what you mean. But what if your view is that all politicians are lying filth who'd kill their mother for an extra vote, who change their opinions at the drop of a hat, especially after election time. I mean, in a two party system, you'd have two different views, in ours, you can have as much as 20, and they really are different (during election time). They have to be 'cause you can't run the risk of losing a vote to a party that is somewhat similar to yours. But as soon as the votes are cast and counted, the different beliefs go out the window. That's when the dick-sucking starts. Don't know if you've ever heard of a NSB-er, but they are the worst. I could vote, but my vote would be abused. It would end up supporting the largest party.

[Joeslogic]

Yeah the Dutch saw the wrath of the Muslims now there scared. They have no backbone.

Little Pansies.

[SPOooOn]

Yeah the Dutch saw the wrath of the Muslims now there scared. They have no backbone.

Little Pansies.

I ment in general. If you want tot talk muslim go to another thread, there's plenty of 'em.

[Joeslogic]

Ok just curious which party holds the majority of seats?

[XerxesX]

I like the idea of small parties. Especially if new ones emerge on the scene frequently. The big lobbies have to rearange their payoffs. The new ones can turn out incompetent. Business as usuall.

But itsright that it end up in two semi-similar camps that go: Capital brings increased education, or, Education brings increased capital....

[Joeslogic]

I'm of the “education brings increased capital” persuasion myself, Seems that there is a party who believes if they dumb down the population enough they can be made to believe that increasing capital expense on education will increase intelligence proportionally. When this never happens they make an excuse and ask for more capital.

[Joeslogic]

Interesting news from the Netherlands

http://www.nisnews.nl/public/110206_1.htm

There not having babies, The Netherlanderthals are leaving and foreigners coming in.

Isn't everything pretty much socialized there?

[diogenes]

Joeslogic said...

I'm of the “education brings increased capital” persuasion myself, Seems that there is a party who believes if they dumb down the population enough they can be made to believe that increasing capital expense on education will increase intelligence proportionally. When this never happens they make an excuse and ask for more capital.

That's the American way, we don't solve problems, we throw money at them hoping they will go away.

Spooon said...

I see what you mean. But what if your view is that all politicians are lying filth who'd kill their mother for an extra vote, who change their opinions at the drop of a hat, especially after election time. I mean, in a two party system, you'd have two different views, in ours, you can have as much as 20, and they really are different (during election time). They have to be 'cause you can't run the risk of losing a vote to a party that is somewhat similar to yours. But as soon as the votes are cast and counted, the different beliefs go out the window. That's when the dick-sucking starts. Don't know if you've ever heard of a NSB-er, but they are the worst. I could vote, but my vote would be abused. It would end up supporting the largest party.

That's true to a degree, but anytime you vote you validate a party or an official. Even if the small party winds up working with the larger party you've validated the position of the smaller party, giving them increased leverage in dealing with the larger party. That's how it's supposed to work anyhow. I don't know the first thing about Dutch politics, so I won't say anything beyond that.

[Joeslogic]

They get together as a family and all have sex, then they go vote. :shock: I don't understand the logic either.

[SPOooOn]

Ok just curious which party holds the majority of seats?

CDA VVD D66
all democrats . .or so they say :P

There not having babies, The Netherlanderthals are leaving and foreigners coming in.

Isn't everything pretty much socialized there?
Depends on what you mean . . we're looking more like the us every day, more deaths by guns, an increase in "slums", people scared shitless by "the enemy from over there"

That's true to a degree, but anytime you vote you validate a party or an official. Even if the small party winds up working with the larger party you've validated the position of the smaller party, giving them increased leverage in dealing with the larger party. That's how it's supposed to work anyhow. I don't know the first thing about Dutch politics, so I won't say anything beyond that.

Well not really, the only party that has a real say in anything is the largest one (more than 50% of all votes), If such a party doesn't exist, a coalition is formed to get a majority. That's when all the freaky shit starts happening.. left-wing and right-wing parties holding hands, arch-enemies joining.. I'm sorry, did we say we're for the death penalty? Nono, I can clearly remember us being against the death penalty.. .can we play with you now?

[diogenes]

That's how policy change happens, otherwise everything would just stay the same.

[chester grape]

Yeah the Dutch saw the wrath of the Muslims now there scared. They have no backbone.

Little Pansies.

That's the Danish, fuck-knuckle.

As far as voting goes, though, I am all in favour of it. How else is your voice to be heard in a democracy?

Democracy only "works" if you participate. (Or at least, it won't "work" any better if you don't.)

In Australia, however, we have another problem. Our voting is compulsory.

So, we have a 96-98% turnout come election time, but many of those people don't actually give a shit, don't properly inform themselves, and so respond to the cheapest and most transparent scare tactics (or whatever). They're easily manipulated.

So, re-reading all of the above, I guess what I would ideally like is a system where voting was optional, but everybody took the time to inform themselves and then voted anyway and accordingly.

Dream on, Chester, dream on ...

[SPOooOn]

May be. . but not in a good way, anyhoe. . my point was it doesn't matter who you vote for cuz they end up doing something other then they promised during elections..

You know what the fuckers did? They threw social security out the window. . you guys over in the US know how that makes me feel . .anyway.. all the small parties promised when voted for, they'd make sure social security'd stay. . and see what happened..

[DrBungle]

If you want SS in the US I hope you are about to turn 65 sucka.

[XerxesX]

Social security. Its damn boring. Havent worked for a cpouple of years. Just cruising around getting a tan r getting drunk orgetting a new book to read. You guys are lucky you havent atained this level of civilisation !

I am definitely going backto work. I just have to figure out wether i should make money or not

[Joeslogic]

I was just being an ass earlier Spoon but of course you figured that out.
The best thing they could do is privatize social security. One little known fact is that here in the states before they amended the laws to prevent it. You had an option to opt out of social security. Of course you were required to have something to take its place and the City of Galveston Texas did just that. This was not a hundred years ago or anything like that either. This was as recient as 1981 actually! Now I need to go find information about it http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/healthcarewelfareorsocialsecurity/galveston.shtml

This is one of those amazing and hidden truths that seem to allude so many misinformed people here in the states.

http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba215.html
Is the Program Safe? One of the biggest challenges to privatizing Social Security is to ensure the safety of the contributors' investments. Workers under the Alternate Plan are required to make their payroll contributions, and the money is invested in annuities with a highly rated insurance company. Though the interest rate can fluctuate from year to year, the financial institution that invests the money must pay a guaranteed interest rate for that year.

Conclusion. Employees of three Texas counties are enjoying rapid growth in their retirement incomes, better benefits than those offered by Social Security and the satisfaction of knowing that the money deposited in their accounts belongs to them and will be there when they retire. Privatizing Social Security is not a distant dream; for some Americans it is a present reality. Fairness and true social security demand that all Americans have the same opportunity.


Basically it was and is a huge success. The Dems quickly passed legislation to slam the door on any continuation of this practice but not before three Texas counties had already got there foot in the door.

If this had not been a success then every school text book and every news channel would be plastering it on people’s faces on a regular basis. Since it was a success? Well then mums the word I suppose.

This is where the danger comes in. Chester pointed it out directly.

So, we have a 96-98% turnout come election time, but many of those people don't actually give a shit, don't properly inform themselves, and so respond to the cheapest and most transparent scare tactics (or whatever). They're easily manipulated.

There in lies the problem. Old people and young have been scared shitless by the news media as well as the democrats with regard to Privatization of Social Security. Every year

[diogenes]

there's a shitload of other information you're leaving out of that picture though. Yeah, It could go incredibly well, but it could also crash. That's why they have a guaranteed benefit plan in addition to IRA's. You can have both, so there is no need to privatize social security.

[Joeslogic]

Privatized social security may crash. Never has in all of history. But it could. And now let’s look at the odds on social security. :wink:

And that’s just the money govt. is going to take anyways. You can still invest into all the IRA's you want to supplement an already great deal.

It’s a step away from the socialism sink hole we are suffocating in and the turning point is now not later. The idea of privatization terrorizes the shit out of the Dems. All of a sudden Americans would be concerned how there money was being invested. All of a sudden there would be incentive for success. All of a sudden destructive politics would be frowned upon. All of a sudden trial lawyer scumbags would be seen as a destructive tool of greed.