Emily, Katrina, and Rita

[smurfslappa]

Selections from this story (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/09jan_electrichurricanes.htm):
The boom of thunder and crackle of lightning generally mean one thing: a storm is coming. Curiously, though, the biggest storms of all, hurricanes, are notoriously lacking in lightning. Hurricanes blow, they rain, they flood, but seldom do they crackle.

Surprise: During the record-setting hurricane season of 2005 three of the most powerful storms--Rita, Katrina, and Emily--did have lightning, lots of it. And researchers would like to know why.

Richard Blakeslee of the Global Hydrology and Climate Center (GHCC) in Huntsville, Alabama, was one of a team of scientists who explored Hurricane Emily using NASA's ER-2 aircraft, a research version of the famous U-2 spy plane. Flying high above the storm, they noted frequent lightning in the cylindrical wall of clouds surrounding the hurricane's eye. Both cloud-to-cloud and cloud-to-ground lightning were present, "a few flashes per minute," says Blakeslee.

What the hell are those two black dots?
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/Bigpappadiaz/122707main_hurricane_emily1_516_med.jpg

"Generally there's not a lot of lightning in the eye-wall region," he says. "So when people see lightning there, they perk up -- they say, okay, something's happening."

Indeed, the electric fields above Emily were among the strongest ever measured by the aircraft’s sensors over any storm. "We observed steady fields in excess of 8 kilovolts per meter," says Blakeslee. "That is huge--comparable to the strongest fields we would expect to find over a large land-based 'mesoscale' thunderstorm."

The flight over Emily was part of a 30-day science data-gathering campaign in July 2005 organized and sponsored by NASA headquarters to improve scientists' understanding of hurricanes. Blakeslee and others from NASA, NOAA and 10 U.S. universities traveled to Costa Rica for the campaign, which is called "Tropical Cloud Systems and Processes." From the international airport near San Jose, the capital of Costa Rica, they could fly the ER-2 to storms in both the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific Ocean. They combined ER-2 data with data from satellites and ground-based sensors to get a comprehensive view of each storm.

Rita and Katrina were not part of the campaign. Lightning in those storms was detected by means of long-distance sensors on the ground, not the ER-2, so less is known about their electric fields.

Nevertheless, it is possible to note some similarities: (1) all three storms were powerful: Emily was a Category 4 storm, Rita and Katrina were Category 5; (2) all three were over water when their lightning was detected; and (3) in each case, the lightning was located around the eye-wall.

What does it all mean? The answer could teach scientists something new about the inner workings of hurricanes.

Ok, so here's where the buuullshiiiiit kicks in...


Actually, says Blakeslee, the reason most hurricanes don't have lightning is understood. "They're missing a key ingredient: vertical winds."

Within thunderclouds, vertical winds cause ice crystals and water droplets (called "hydrometeors") to bump together. This "rubbing" causes the hydrometeors to become charged. Think of rubbing your socked feet across wool carpet--zap! It's the same principle. For reasons not fully understood, positive electric charge accumulates on smaller particles while negative charge clings to the larger ones. Winds and gravity separate the charged hydrometeors, producing an enormous electric field within the storm. This is the source of lightning.

A hurricane's winds are mostly horizontal, not vertical. So the vertical churning that leads to lightning doesn't normally happen.

There's more, but it's the same bullshit.

So the rubbing effect causes lightning? If that isn't the biggest load of bullshit I ever heard. Diogenes, oh keeper of all that is labeled wisdom, what do you think? Do you buy into this stupid shit these scientists are cramming down our throats?

[smurfslappa]

That picture was Emily, by the way.

[XerxesX]

He is hiding in his barrel and insulting kings and such. But the flight of electrons come abour when differently charged layers mix. Vertical winds sounds like the thing :wink:

[TheGrimJesus]

The black dots are dust on the lens

[smurfslappa]

Oh man dude.... First of all, I don't buy that bullshit to begin with, that rubbing water molecules creates that charge, and the wind separates them. That's stupid, the shit is water, it's fluid, and the molecules would ground out long before then.

Remember, there is cloud to cloud, and cloud to ground. That energy is traveling downward. This is what hurricanes do and this is how they are formed. Giant electric vortices that funnel the shit downward.

There's a lot more energy going into this thing than you think, you got a 30 foot storm surge sitting under this thing, getting sucked up by the immensely low pressure, which is in turn boiling off all this water underneath it, and with the help of the cold tongue of air from the north is able to rid itself of this additional heat and continue sucking up moisture.

Usually the energy is able to flow through the clouds and through the low pressure eye, but when it builds up way too much in any one area and the attraction felt from another without as much reaches that critical point, it makes that connection and lightning strikes. Since it is travelling downward, you don't see any ground to air strikes.

[smurfslappa]

The black dots are dust on the lens

Yeah probably, but it's funny how they didn't give the same readings for Katrina and Rita like they did for Emily.

And Wilma was out of the question, because it was over by Meh-hee-coo.

[XerxesX]

You have a theory Slapper ? is it the little Tlaloc s ?

[smurfslappa]

I don't know what the hell that is, but I know there's more to it than what they're telling us.

I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but something that just started recently over here in Austin is I'm getting shocked by fucking static electricity all the damn time. My friends have noticed it to. You open your car door you get shocked, you go to open your front door you get shocked, you walk to your room door you get shocked, you touch someone else you get shocked, all the damn time everywhere you go.

[smurfslappa]

I also don't doubt it has something to do with that shit fucking with the clouds, those pictures I showed you all.

[XerxesX]

Tlaloc is the aztec/mayan raingod. Tlalocs are te drops and the dew and the drench.
Maybe Tezla and Reich and the UFO would give you a god read.
There coming to take you away aha Hihi hoho to the funnyfarm where life is beautiful all the time and there coming to take you away !

But Willhelm Reichs rainmaker ! Seriously, as nonsense goes.
I mean its not like anybody serious believes that shit. :roll:

[smurfslappa]

Well fine then, whatever the hell you're talking about is bullshit, why the fuck do I give a shit about that? I'm talking about what I'm talking about, and it's not bullshit.

[XerxesX]

Edison rules OK

[smurfslappa]

Not OK, there are entire fields of science being hindered or hidden because we can't be allowed to know the truth of how they work. If we understood how the weather truly worked, that would open a whole 'nother can of worms.

[XerxesX]

Its impossible to do the math on the weather. Rule of increasing complexity. And why not Reichs orgon-rays ?

[smurfslappa]

Once again, what the hell are you talking about? We can fucking observe the weather. Just like they measured the electric field about emily at 8 kilovolts per meter-squared, we can observe cause and effect, there are no rules against that. It just sounds like you're looking for excuses to stay stupid, or to explain why these scientists are playing dumb.

Don't they think they already figured out why a tornado works? Can you remember why according to what you learned in high school, off the top of your head? I know I couldn't because it was so stupid my brain had already purged it. But what prevents the wind from dispersing, and causes it to spin in place? There has to be a force there keeping it in place, and my bet is that force is electric.

[XerxesX]

Its impossible to do the math on the weather.
Rule of increasing complexity.

[smurfslappa]

No it's not, you're an idiot. They don't have to figure out every fucking nook and cranny in a hurricane to know what it's doing as a whole.

[diogenes]

From what I understand of lighting, most discharge is ground to air, so the statement made about why most hurricanes lack lighting doesn't make sense.
If all lightning is a byproduct of static electricity generated by fluid atmospheric currents moving over solid mass (I don't know if moving a fluid mass against a fluid mass generates static, but I wouldn't think so otherwise the ocean would carry a much larger charge then it does). It could also be that they have developed much more sensitive equipment, and the old perceptions they had of lightning in regards to hurricanes was based on incorrect and inaccurate data. However, seeing as how lightning is a build up of static electricity, and static electricity is more easily dissipated in humid and wet conditions, it would make sense that you would see less lightining in the event of a hurricane, because due to the extreme conditions the energy buildup may be discharged more rapidly, meaning that the same amount of electricity was being discharged, but just in a more constant and less violent means of realease. That explanation is subject to scrutiny though since thunderstorms occur more often in humid conditions than in dry. I would think it would have something to do with the amount of energy being released by the hurricane in relative proportion to a thunderstorm, which is generally humid conditions without the presence of strong winds and heavy rain. Did all of that make sense or am I sounding like XerxesX here?

[smurfslappa]

just sounding like xerxes, not knowing what the hell you're talking about...

However, seeing as how lightning is a build up of static electricity

because there's your mistake.

I'm guessing the water molecules in the air were seriously rubbing up on the water below, and it happened that so much energy built up in the clouds, and way up high, because all the lightning is air to ground.

[diogenes]

Then why would most of the lightning have centered around the eye of the storm, the one region without clouds?

[smurfslappa]

because that's where most of the energy is passing through, that low ass pressure area. The moving electric current causes the spinning around it. It takes a lot of energy to suck up all that water underneath it and create a 30 foot storm surge like the one Wilma had, over an area of about 200-square miles, that's heavy, and it happened faster than I think the warm water underneath it could provide...

[XerxesX]

Xerx
Its impossible to do the math on the weather.
Rule of increasing complexity.

Slap
No it's not, you're an idiot. They don't have to figure out every fucking nook and cranny in a hurricane to know what it's doing as a whole.

Xerx
But the small parts work back on the big picture bigtime. Thats why Its impossible to do the math on the weather. Rule of increasing complexity.

You are into that conspiracyshit seriously scheck Reich and Tezla :wink:

[diogenes]

Why would electric current pass through the eye, which has the lowest amount of conductive material? Electricity needs something to transmit through, it doesn't just move without a conductor.

[smurfslappa]

How the hell does electricity from the sun get transfered from there to here to outside the solar system? Moves through that vaccuumous space, nice and smoothly. Less shit to get in its way and thus increase the resistance. There's large lightning storms out in space too.

If that's not the case, why the hell is the shit spinning all around it? Why the hell was the electric field above Emily, one of the hurricanes with the most lightning, so damn intense? I'm sure Katrina, Rita and Wilmas was much much more, but alas, they conveniently didn't test those. It's a fine and dandy excuse that the storms were too intense to fly in and it's true, but come on, lots and lots of lightning around the eye wall.

All I'm saying is I'm pretty damn sure these beasts are electrically driven, you look at them and you know there has to be lots and lots of energy flowing through those ho's, way more than the stupid warm water theory can provide, and it's most likely through the eye.

So this is why we can't know how they work, because understanding them would extend to many other fields of science, and would make us question their impact on our magnetic field, climate, yada yada.

Xerx
But the small parts work back on the big picture bigtime. Thats why Its impossible to do the math on the weather. Rule of increasing complexity.

You are into that conspiracyshit seriously scheck Reich and Tezla

It's not impossible to do the math on weather, that's a stupid ass rule you're trying to quote, and I'm pretty damn sure somebody already has and that's how these beasts of hurricanes came about. Vertical winds my ass.

[diogenes]

Smurf said...

How the hell does electricity from the sun get transfered from there to here to outside the solar system?

If space was full of electricity we wouldn't need to put batteries on Satellites, now would we. Space is full of high energy particles, which release electrons when they collide with other particles.

If that's not the case, why the hell is the shit spinning all around it?

The same reason the water forms a vortex around a small circle of air when you drain a bathtub, it facilitates the vertical movement of fluid in a viscous medium. It's the same way a tornado air intake works on a car. A vortex improves the efficiency of movement in a fluid medium.

All I'm saying is I'm pretty damn sure these beasts are electrically driven...

If that was the case then the wind of the storm would continue to be electrically driven after it made landfall, and it wouldn't lose energy in a consistent pattern after making landfall. The ocean harbors an amazing amount of heat energy. Do some research on wave generated power.

[smurfslappa]

As the planes struggle toward the eye, the pilots fight intense updrafts and downdrafts. The hurricane pelts the planes with rain and hail. Static electricity builds up and then discharges with a flash and a loud bang, causing the crew's hair to literally stand on end.

If space was full of electricity we wouldn't need to put batteries on Satellites, now would we. Space is full of high energy particles, which release electrons when they collide with other particles.

Well it's getting through there somehow. Electricity still confuses many, many people. Space is full of high energy particles, and when they hit our atmosphere they release their energy in a number of different ways.

The same reason the water forms a vortex around a small circle of air when you drain a bathtub, it facilitates the vertical movement of fluid in a viscous medium. It's the same way a tornado air intake works on a car. A vortex improves the efficiency of movement in a fluid medium.

No bitch, not everything that spins spins for the same damn reason. Water spinning down the drain is not wind spinning around in a hurricane. Water spinning down a drain is in it's little container, and is forced to go down the hole. The wind around a hurricane refuses to disperse, and is in fact drawn to the eye.

If that was the case then the wind of the storm would continue to be electrically driven after it made landfall, and it wouldn't lose energy in a consistent pattern after making landfall. The ocean harbors an amazing amount of heat energy. Do some research on wave generated power.

Alrighty, while I'm doing that, read this...

http://pesn.com/2005/10/21/9600193_Wilma_Energy_from_the_Vacuum/

[smurfslappa]

Crap, I just ate my own shit... The energy must be getting pumped out with the way the shit is spinning.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/Bigpappadiaz/magcur.gif

[TheGrimJesus]

Smurf really if it was anything, The Goverment would doctor the pics so you would not know. They would never release anything that would give hard proof to anything they are hiding

[diogenes]

I'd like to see some 3rd party validation on that story.

Smurf said...

Water spinning down a drain is in it's little container, and is forced to go down the hole. The wind around a hurricane refuses to disperse, and is in fact drawn to the eye.

yes, all vortices behave the same way, otherwise they would not be defined as a vortex. You notice hurricanes lose energy when they make landfall, and that's because the vortex is disposing of most of it's energy in it's circular motion and also dropping a tremendous amount of heat energy onto the land, which is no longer being replaced by the ocean. Do your own research and thinking smurf, and quit looking to the internet to think for you.

[smurfslappa]

This was my thinking, bitch. That's why I started looking for what I was looking for.

yes, all vortices behave the same way, otherwise they would not be defined as a vortex.
Well no fucking shit. But they don't behave the same way for the same damn reasons is what I said.

Smurf really if it was anything, The Goverment would doctor the pics so you would not know. They would never release anything that would give hard proof to anything they are hiding
No no grim, those are just simple pictures of a flowing electric current (the straight line) and the magnetic field it generates (the spinning circles around it). I was pointing out with the way a hurricane spins, energy must be flowing out of the earth and into space.

Hurricanes lose energy when they make landfall for a number of reasons. The resistance is greater over land than it is over salt water which is able to draw energy over a greater surface area of the ocean floor; one of the components that a hurricane built itself around was water which screeches to a halt when it hits land because of the previous reason and because it's so damn heavy.

I would think it'd be interesting to see what happenes to the electrical field above a hurricane when it hits land. Perhaps the plug gets pulled and pllbbtt it craps out.

[smurfslappa]

What's awesome though is that hurricanes tend to spawn a lot of tornadoes when they hit land. You know, those electric vortices of the land?

[Joeslogic]

I started to read this and my eyes glazed over. I caught bits and pieces. Lightening is ground to air. Current in the form of electrons travels from negative to positive. (that’s the questionable common theory anyways) in electricity opposites attract each other. When positive charged clouds travel over negatively charged land the difference of charge becomes great enough to overcome the distance across a dielectric substance (air) a spark occurs (lightening) Lightening also occurs between positively and negatively charged clouds. Where I was raised in East Texas lightening storms were very common. I love to sit out on the porch and watch them come through. I have not lived any other place where they were so very spectacular. I understand the most concentrated lightening however can be observed in some plateau or valley in New Mexico.

Off the top of my head that’s my understanding. Watching you guys discuss science is like watching a bunch of monkeys all trying to fuck a football at the same time. Somewhat amusing at first then just plain pathetic.

[smurfslappa]

Well then you're an idiot Joe.

I watched the simpsons tonight and I loved what Bart told Lisa about a fight Homer and Marge were having. "Come on Lisa it's natural, we don't have to understand it like hurricanes or going to war."

[diogenes]

I think you pretty much summed up my position Joe. Does anyone know if magnetic fields flow in the opposite direction when you cross the equator? That would be evidence of truth in smurfs position.

[Joeslogic]

Interestingly enough they say when you cross the equator the toilet will flow in the opposite direction. IE clockwise on the Northern hemisphere and counter that on the Southern. While in the Military I spent time on the other side of the world. Actually flushed a toilet to see then my dumb ass figured out hell I never took note of which way it went before. :P Its still a mystery to me :D
Sometimes mysteries are better that way; I successfully solved the mystery of what Vegemite taste like wish I had not though. I am keeping the jar around as a novelty thing in case someone wants to try it. I could also use it for catfish bait in a pinch.

[diogenes]

I say you convince someone it's peanut butter just to fuck with them.

[chester grape]

Magnetic fields flow the same way whichever side of the equator you're on.

I've never really noticed water swirling either way around the toilet bowl, but it does when I pull the plug out of the bath. Can't remember which way, though.

And I doubt any self-respecting catfish would eat Vegemite. You have to start from a very young age to like it: my kids were eating it by nine months.

[diogenes]

Hurricanes spin opposite directions on opposite sides of the equator, so unless someone proves me wrong I'm saying smurf is full of shit.

[chester grape]

Hurricanes spin opposite directions on opposite sides of the equator, so unless someone proves me wrong I'm saying smurf is full of shit.

We'd have to cut smurf open to prove you wrong ... :twisted:

[diogenes]

Or just assume he's full of shit based on principle, and let him prove us wrong.

[chester grape]

I like my idea better.

[diogenes]

I think the ultimate would be getting him to cut himself open to prove us wrong. That way there's no blood on our hands.

[smurfslappa]

Well then maybe the bottom half of the earth is the energy in side, and the upper half is the energy out?

I say these recent hurricanes prove the warm water hurricane theory wrong. Anyone want to fuckin' say that they are? I mean look at what Wilma did. Did you even read that article diogenes?

It makes for a good read if anyone else hasn't.

[diogenes]

Post me a link to the specific article your talking about.

[smurfslappa]

you know the one you asked for some third party verification on, like you expect every half ass to do an article on an article. The one i just posted up as a new thread.

[diogenes]

got it, still doesn't matter.