What the fux with IRAN ?!?

[XerxesX]

1. Iran is surrounded by US and allied forces.

2. The controlling values in western and iranian societies are opposed.

3. The iranian ruling elite is in a beautiful diplomatic position, with the ability to "strongarm" the US,

3a. This thanks to the immense failure of the internal US rethoric and the stupidity of the ivyleague-nomeoclature.

3b. The Pentagon are not equipped defend against a crisis in education and the reduction of students to consumers.

3x.

Scenario 1 Iran developes nukes and a new umbrella for insurgents in Afgh and Iraq is created.

Scenario 2 Iran is stopped in its pursuit by US or Israeli airstrike. The rulers win continued support from own populace and the gap between shia and sunni is closed further. The cost of war in iraq goes up, and the dream of iraquis taking over the fight and defending themselves from the muslem mujjaheddins gets the last nail in its coffin. :shock:

[Joeslogic]

Looks like a no-win situation.

Nobody seems to question what the need is for Nuclear power in the first place for a country that is a major supplier of oil to the world and capable of generating cheap power from virtually free oil driven steam generators.

The world will be driven to the brink of catastrophe by ignorance of the public fueled by lies from the media, or a culture of shallowness. Or simply hatred by many idiots out there thinking what’s bad for America is good for the world.

[XerxesX]

Looks like a no-win situation.

Its a dangerous game at least.

Diplomacu faces a system of beliefs where Israel is a thorn in islamic flesh. It must seem blasfemic that the oldest of the religions of the book and of the one G-d take back its old land and thus counters a deterministic evolution of religion. In addition , the pop-culture is a threat that is at leat as real for the Eranian clergy, as it is for Pat Buchanan.

Iran stands to loose its muslem soul. USA stands to loose its manuverability and hegemony as superpower. High stakes. The real tragedy, is that while machomen at the top of their social foodchains drum their symbolic drums and shake their explosive spears, the destruction of lifes plethora goes unchecked.

[smurfslappa]

Maybe they know the long-term plan isn't diplomacy, and don't exactly agree with what they think these old, white guys have in store for them. The world as we know it is ending, ancient, ancientrivalries will surface once again, after all these years of planning and deception. The world that I see in store for us is one with crazy weather, battles over control of the earth and it's inhabitants, everyone choosing one of the pre-planned religions that they want you to believe in, awesome planet-altering with knowledge that only could of been handed down, and nobody but a few any wiser...with the few's opinions being drowned out by the large masses of stupid people... don't tell me you all don't see it coming yet? :lol:

Maybe it'd speed things up a bit if they didn't have a nuke, so go ahead with the bombings.

[smiles]

whats crazy is that all of the iranians that i know are highly opposed ot their governemt.... they dont share the highly conservative views of their ruling party but can do nothing about it........ seems to be happening everywhere nowdays

[XerxesX]

Smurf: They have old white guys in Iran as well.

ancient, ancientrivalries will surface.

Maybe in a new form though. Positive thinking can be fun.
Diplomacy is a means to an end. Longtermplans are based on positive projections of own populations future, with the added wish for neighbours and extending to all planet. Models of cooperation are viable.

Smiles

Maybe its the preassure of rule facing expanding expectations and populations. Most people seem to be opposed to government politics. But we still want the good life, as defined by growing consumption.

[smiles]

but such a regime hardly promotes consumption in the economic sense..... all it promotes is uncertainity and reluctance

[XerxesX]

Oh yes they want growing economy. If they have a good strategy is a dif question. And what growth is is an open question. Is balck-market growth. ( Someplaces its vital to the economy ) How valuable is a higher consumption of alcolhol. Whats the cost of the profit ? These are the lines where they have agreed , not to agree.

( While at the same time having forgotten the vital ecological questions. Lets hope that at least cleaningtechnology, and waterpreservation can become issues ).

[smurfslappa]

Who's promoting uncertainty? Their fates were uncertain to begin with, all the old white guys have it out for everyone in that region. Not all of us are fat and greedy and want "the good life" which usually leads to a slowly crumbling populace anyways. There's no stability to be found in that.

One of my predictions for 2006 is that after the depression hits, there will be a growing hatred for all the celebrities and stars we once admired, and we will feel a need to punish them for their lavish, consumption-based lifestyles. Being dirt poor and realizing that life sucks because everyone around you consumed as much as they possibly could will do that to you.

[ucicare]

One of my predictions for 2006 ..., there will be a growing hatred for all the celebrities and stars we once admired,.... and we will feel a need to punish them for their lavish, consumption-based lifestyles....


For once I hope that you are right.

[smiles]

froma global perspective smurf western lifestile is both lavish and consumption based..... that means you and me as well!

[smurfslappa]

Well hell yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Our fat, bloated, all-consuming asses are almost on the verge of collapse, and when our economy melts down and everyone starts going hungry, we really really won't be used to that. So we'll turn our hatred away from ourselves and blame the media for lying to us, and we'll really hate celebrities for not having it quite as hard as us. People always blame the rich in times of desperation, and have a tendency to kill them (i.e. France, Russia).

We'll be a nice lesson in history some day, with everyone remembering how that one country that could never have enough wound up devouring itself when it went broke. Americans suck as it is, can you imagine what we'll be like when enter this depression here real soon? Can you blame me for wanting to dispense a little justice when all goes to hell, preemptively naming my gats Law and Order? Can you blame another country for not wanting to imitate us?

[Joeslogic]

Iran as a country is difficult to understand or at least predict. Five years ago with the student demonstrations it looked like they were on the verge of going a different direction from where they are now. What about this new leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He seems to be part of the extreme fringe. Without jumping in to the assumption that he is from the mainstream. Cause I do not believe that. By what sort of margin was he elected does any one know?

Seems to me that he is a little desperate, showboating a bit. Not acting rational at least. I’m just trying to figure out what his game is. Is he acting like a fool because he is stupid or is he stupid like a fox? However that saying goes.

[Joeslogic]

Crazy like a fox!

Same idea

[diogenes]

Smurfslappa said


We'll be a nice lesson in history some day, with everyone remembering how that one country that could never have enough wound up devouring itself when it went broke. Americans suck as it is, can you imagine what we'll be like when enter this depression here real soon?

We had a depression, about 80 years ago. People were riding high back then, too. And the country came out of it. I think you underestimate the compassion that exists in the United States. The success of the United States has been based on mass co-operation, whatever the mechanism. I think a depression would re-inforce that, not make it crumble.

[smurfslappa]

The Americans of 80 years ago are not the Americans we have these days. Back in the day, people actually cared, were in a better position to handle a depression, had better life skills, knew how to grow food, and the country wasn't as jam packed as it is now. People were riding high back then; they think they're riding high now but they're not. The country rose to what it was because of the mass cooperation, and has descended to the shell of what it is now because of greed and stupidity. The majority of people will get ugly real quick to get theirs, and I hate knowing that's how it's gonna go down.

[diogenes]

Smurfslappa said...


The Americans of 80 years ago are not the Americans we have these days. Back in the day, people actually cared, were in a better position to handle a depression, had better life skills, knew how to grow food, and the country wasn't as jam packed as it is now. People were riding high back then; they think they're riding high now but they're not. The country rose to what it was because of the mass cooperation, and has descended to the shell of what it is now because of greed and stupidity. The majority of people will get ugly real quick to get theirs, and I hate knowing that's how it's gonna go down.

You, all of that sounds like things that would prevent a deprsession from happening in the first place. If what you're saying is true, then the depression shouldn't have happened in the first place. The reason the depression hit is because of over-valuation of stock, and poor financial skills. Quite a few people killed themselves, that doesn't sound like they were "better" prepared, now does it. The depression restored balance amongst social networks, and if a depression were to hit again the same thing would happen, because you wouldn't have the income gap that separates people into "classes." Everyone is poor in a depression, and it stops people from having that "get mine" mentality. The reason things are the way they are right now is because the depression generation is dead, and the lessons of it have been forgotten. Doesn't mean they can't be learned again.

[Joeslogic]

Which depression cause I understand there were some that actually capatilized on the situation and did quite well. I was led to believe that there were two classes and the seperation gap was simply larger

[diogenes]

Joeslogic said...


Which depression cause I understand there were some that actually capatilized on the situation and did quite well. I was led to believe that there were two classes and the seperation gap was simply larger

True, but the vast majority of people became poor. There was no longer a middle class. In any given economic system you get have's and have nots. It's just that during the depression the haves were an extreme minority. The have nots were forced to depend on each other. The lessons learned during the depression about economics and society are being forgotten. What I'm saying is that if another depression were to come along that would restore balance.[/quote]

[Joeslogic]

Possibly true, at least one would hope so. Could go the other way though. There are different powers of influence now as apposed to then. Some groups love to stir up dissent with class warfare tactics. You see Dio I do not see big government as the answer. Although you never said it and possibly never thought it. I believe the general public would be influenced by an idea that Government would be the place to find the answer to all there problems.

[diogenes]

Joeslogic said...


Although you never said it and possibly never thought it. I believe the general public would be influenced by an idea that Government would be the place to find the answer to all there problems.

I'm inclined to agree with you on that, but if it were to happen in the near future it wouldn't be as likely. I think everyone lost quite a bit of confidence in the federal government after Katrina, and that's a good thing. The government is a giant beast, slow to move and reluctant to change. Also incompetent, but that's another issue entirely.

[smurfslappa]

No, the government can't be a dick because it's not alive. The people in it are the problem. The problems exist because they want them to.

[Joeslogic]

Smurf, you would do better with your theories if you found the motive. What’s the motive for dragging feet in the case of Katrina? Then couple in the fact that there was no foot dragging in the first place. The authorities were working on helping Biloxi, Gulfport, Gulf shores. This took clearing out debris to be able to get to the people in need in the first place when like two days layer the levee broke over in New Orleans which previous to this by comparison had received minor damage. You like the majority are falling for a smoke and mirrors scheme that would have you believe that Friday night all of New Orleans was under water and the feds did not care till days later. That’s simply not true.

Then you got the media capitalizing on the issue for maximum GW damage. What’s the motive for dragging feet? Don’t tell me it was for the purpose of buying the land on the cheep. That land was not worth a crap before the hurricane in the first place and if you have ever been to the big easy you know it was a shit hole in the first place. There is absolutely no gain to be had. Much less to mention the fact that no one even knew the hurricane was going to hit until when it happened.

There is a huge conspiracy story true enough and the story is how the local politicians have bled the federal government for Millions in federal money to make the Dikes stronger. And all of this always resulting in million dollar studies by engineering companies who contribute to the official’s campaign funds but zero actual work. Where are the people up in arms about this? Why is this fact being blackballed by the media? One simple reason the elected officials in question are Democrats.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[diogenes]

Funny, you would think that democrats were the only ones engaging in pork barrel spending.

[Joeslogic]

No I think there both guilty. On the specific issue of New Orleans Democrats were the main perpetrators. And as a general rule Dems are the big pork barrel spenders. But that does not mean the Reps are not guilty also. While at the same time fact is it simple logic also that which ever party yields the most power Senate or House will get the most lobby money. That always been the case and probably always will be.

[diogenes]

I agree, but I don't think one party is more prone to pork barrel spending than the other. Republicans dump money into corporations, democrats waste money on social programs. One of the areas with the most pork is military and defense spending, so let's not pin this on democrats. Transportation bills get a huge amount of pork as well. An Alaskan republican just got $254,000,000 out of this years transportation bill. The fact of the matter is whichever party controls congress spends the most pork. 12 years ago the democrats were spending most of the pork, now it's the republicans.

[smurfslappa]

You're an idiot Joe. This was the most blatant example of foot dragging we've seen in decades, with every major news network and reporter in the area asking "Why isn't help here?" weeks after the incident, and you say something as stupid as that. God damn you're what's wrong with America. They got you convinced 2 + 2 = 5. Just like in Oklahoma, there was one fertilizer bomb, they said it was 5,000 lbs. No, wait, that's impossible, then they said 50,000 lbs. Eyewitnesses say they heard 3 blasts? Nonsense. Move along.

Like the idiot you are you say:
You like the majority are falling for a smoke and mirrors scheme that would have you believe that Friday night all of New Orleans was under water and the feds did not care till days later. That’s simply not true."
No ass, I was watching the news, they were under water the morning following the hurricane. Whose smoke and mirrors? EVERYONE was saying what the hell is going on? Not just the media. NOTHING happened, and the FEDs are throwing up the I dunno excuse just like everyone else. Criminal negligence went down, and that's a damn fact. There's no smoke and mirrors about it you damn fucking idiot. GOD I'M PISSED. I HATE EVERYTHING!!!!1!!!

If the point was to piss people off and get them asking questions then I think they failed, because what the fuck, nobody gives a shit anymore. The whole smoke and mirrors was convincing people the levees broke because of the hurricane and that the lack of response was because of lack of communication. Everyone ate that shit up. The real people who cared were those on the ground and in the superdome wondering why weeks after the shit went down there still wasn't any help.

The investigations into this criminal negligence won't get the answers they need in time to beat this depression that's coming this year, and at that point nobody will give a damn about anything other than surviving in this post-crash world. The motive goes hand in hand with believing the hurricane was not of natural cause in the first place and that it's all part of a larger plan, but I know you don't believe anything anyways. So it's pointless arguing with you. You just don't see it yet, and won't until it's going down live.

Wake up and smell the bullshit. Some of the dumbest things I have ever heard were in that last post of yours. At least I got UCICARE here to vouch for me that I'm batty. You're just an idiot.

[diogenes]

I'll vouch for that too. If you need us to, I'll start a petition that you're batty. Seriously.

[Joeslogic]

I like to think that the elected officials in the Republican party are held to a higher standard of ethics. For example look at the Independent parties generally being the party that spoiled it for the reps. No one takes the Green party seriously and Clinton was the first president to take office on less than the majority vote that I can remember thanks to Ross Perot. For the most part the Independent party exists due to complaints about Republicans departure from their core principals.

While trying to get a grasp on the reporting style of that female journalist hostage. I looked up the Christian Science Monitor and found an interesting article. This one seemed to be objective enough and was on the very subject of government spending.

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0123/p25s01-cogn.html

[XerxesX]

The new spin from the right, that Joe is kind enough to bring to our attention is interesting.

Its quite telling that the corporate takeover of media can be sold as a "leftist" plot and bought as a "dolchenstoss" legend when they need a scapegoat.

Makes one wonder about the "reichstagsbrann" in the twin towers as well.

Joe ! I know US media is full of shit. That is not synonymous with socialism. Big corporations controll your industry and sets policies. These are not socialist. The libraryservice is not big enough to twist media in a "socialist" way. By insisting on this crazy interpratation of worldevents you americans sink further into the mud. There is a reason the average american know close to nothing about theworld you know. And NO, thats not a socialist plot. The communists have NOT taken washington :wink:

[smurfslappa]

The collapse of the U.S. economy is imminent (http://www.sibernews.com/the-news/world-news/collapse-of-u.s.-economy-imminent-200601223513/)

With all the hateful, sadistic Americans running around these days, it sucks that this is coming so soon. It's gonna be so crazy when that shit hits, and things will never be the same again... :( goodbye, not-so-good-but-better-than-what's-to-be life, hello rapin and pillagin and killin and killin and killin...

[Joeslogic]

But Xerx you should check out the Christian Science Monitor Artical that I previously posted it illistrates this point. I mean this is in my opinion why the right has gave up there persuit of less welfare transfer programs. They know the media has brainwashed the public enough even though they understand the damage it does. They have compromised instead of letting the left completely take over.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0123/p25s01-cogn.html

[ucicare]

The collapse of the U.S. economy is imminent (http://www.sibernews.com/the-news/world-news/collapse-of-u.s.-economy-imminent-200601223513/)

With all the hateful, sadistic Americans running around these days, it sucks that this is coming so soon. It's gonna be so crazy when that shit hits, and things will never be the same again... :( goodbye, not-so-good-but-better-than-what's-to-be life, hello rapin and pillagin and killin and killin and killin...


Smurf, my wife works for Compass bank (Executive position) (See # 3) She just laughed and shook her head.

"hello rapin and pillagin and killin and killin and killin..." ??????????

Come on Smurf. No kidding. Go to the Doctor. I bet a weeks worth of Seroquil will cure the paranoias, and then you can get a job again and support your family. Your kids need a rational Father.

I don't doubt that some of the stuff you post has SOME truth in in. The problem is the EXTREME predictions that you make. It is just not healthy. Any time the pendulum swings too far in either direction, it points to a problem. Go get your pendulum fixed dude. You will be glad you did.

Barry

[XerxesX]

Hi Joe ! How can the left take over , when its all owned by big corporations ? Last i checked. Big capital was a bit to the right of left. If you know what i mean ?

Media brainwashed you ? Might be, but i still dont see no commies hiding there. You might find a hoover in the closet though :oops:

Lets quote !

"the era of big government is far from over. Trends are decidedly in favor of that quintessential leftist goal: massive redistribution of wealth".

What a dung ! Quintessential leftist ? How about quintessential christian ?

They just gave a trill to warfare faaaar away, and then, using a much smaller sum on medicine and education is supposedly bad :cry:
Never heard those "christians" cry out when WP was used in Falujah
If HE had not risen, he would turn in his grave. They are just a bunch of hypocritical blasfemers.

But lets repeat. THE SOVIET BLOCK DID NOT CONTROL US MEDIA. YOUR CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT DID !
And they never were, are not, and most likely never will be socialist.

Government is not the same as socialism. Using a trillion or two on wars does not make your govenrment socialist. GWB is not your typical "bleeding-heart liberal.

[smurfslappa]

Naturally some disinformation has to fly out there, so that when regular stupid folk go and ask their bank tellers if #3 is true, they'll laugh and be like what? come on now... Then the person will be like "Man, what was I thinking?" and feel stupid for having even asked.

Silly me put the dumbest of all articles to post about this coming depression, though, and I'm sorry I put it through your thick skull that it wasn't going to be.


The Mogambo Guru sez:
Although Halloween is over, you wouldn't know it by looking at total Fed credit, the scary satanic wellspring of fiat money that is destroying our money, the economy and my sleep, as it went up by $9.6 billion last week. If you could see me now, you would probably laugh, as I am typing with one hand, clutching my chest in the throes of a painful heart attack with the other. While in a burst of Amazing Mogambo Productivity (AMP), I’m also gagging up blood, in my outrage and shouting out of the window that our money is being killed, all at the same time. All of this because the Federal Reserve expanded money and credit by almost 10 freaking billion dollars, in one freaking week!

But money is being created everywhere! Hell, the U.S. Treasury spent last week printing up another $5.4 billion in actual cash! Even M3, the measure of the money supply that is so broad that it includes everything that could possibly be considered as "money," jumped $70 billion dollars in the last four stinking weeks! No wonder the banks and the government are not going to report this statistic anymore, as it is proof positive that the dollar is being murdered!

That's just a tidbit, you still got housing, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ready to implode under a wave of defaults that increased 13% in december and probably with criminal overtones, the derivatives failures that would spawn from that and take down many, many banks, the fact that so many banks are merging makes me think they're trying to get themselves "too big to fail" and thus get a government bailout, energy costs doubled last year, bankruptcies up, jobs down, we're gonna be monetizing our own debts through hedge funds which is why we're eliminating M3, we're being de-indrustrialized, so much else. Everything is on a tight-rope right now, and somethings gotta give soon. You can only introduce so much perversity into the system before it goes kapoot.

The system's broken, I'm trying to tell you guys, so you see I care? You're apethy borders on criminal negligence.

[Joeslogic]

Well Xerx it’s true like I said this is not new news to me. I have commonly on this forum here been accused of being a Republican and I generally agree that I would be if the Reps would go back to being conservative on there interpretation of the Constitution and defending its core principals as well as being conservative in fiscal policy. That article illustrates the point. And with all due respect your numbers are not correct.

[diogenes]

I'd really like to see the Republicans get back to the core values of minding their own fucking business as well. The republican party isn't going to get shit done until they split with the religious right, dumb shits like Pat Robertson, Timothy Lehay, and those bunch of fuck offs. Religion and politics don't mix, and until the republicans learn that then the constitution is nothing more than something they use to wipe their ass while they read the bible.

[Joeslogic]

So Dio why don't you tell us how you really feel? :D

[diogenes]

I feel rather bitter and angry, but since I'm so fucked up in the head most of the time anyway it's really hard to gauge if I'm having a bad day or not.

[Joeslogic]

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/08/09/PH2006080901431.jpg

Have you noticed all the pictures of this wacko Iranian fuck are with that same shit eating grin? Can you imagine doing an interview where he stands there with that stupid look on his face along with the people behind him?

Mike Wallace gave him a royal ass kissing complete with tongue action on this interview. I bet his 80 year old bung hole was wet with anticipation that he might be able to take it up the ass from this guy if he pleased him enough.

[XerxesX]

It is a professional anal job. Dont they look a bit alike ? Besides it is probably a fake Amadinejahn and it was all preepared in a Hollywood studio ! And Dio said that religion and politics dont mix :lol:

Satan is after all the creator of all our religions and cults exept one. The pure one. If we could all just join that one , then everything would be OK. It could be pentecostal or catholic or muslem or hindu or some such, but maybe it is a set of yoga-exercises with the sound OOoOohMMm and greeting the sun. There would be something that was bad to eat, and maybe a maximum limit of wifes/hubbies, but then again.........................................

The woomb of black mother earth. And skyfathers clear blue blessing. By his tears and her flesh I bless. Modern christian satanism states that HE created HER. some 10 000 years ago the herecy was opposite, though modern science explains that the male sex is a 280 mill years old mutation. Its got 100 mill more to go and has lost 97% of its genetic material so far. Compared go the female genome, the male is a gnome, or a dwarf. So maybe they were closer to the truth back then.On the other side , men grow better beards than women. Dwarf or not. And both santa and god and nefertiti are equipped with beards. Only Nefertiti has one of gold though.

What beliefes were behind Saddams dispositions before the 1.Gulf war, and how far had Hizbollah recognozed the IDFs need to crack down on coordinated strategies from the muslem far right ? One can only wonder.

[Joeslogic]

but maybe it is a set of yoga-exercises with the sound OOoOohMMm and greeting the sun. There would be something that was bad to eat.

Maybe a combination of yoga and bad tofu? better mate sure that you are in the front of the Yoga class or practice your yoga alone. :oops:

[Joeslogic]

Drudge report:


PITBULL JOURNALIST GOES SOFT ON IRANIAN MADMAN: 88-year-old CBS journalist says Iranian president a 'reasonable' man on Sean Hannity's ABC radio program... Points out Ahmadinejad not anti-Jewish... just anti-Zionist state. Says many Jews in Iranian Parliament, in great positions in Iranian life... Believes Ahmadinejad sincere in his hope for peaceful coexistence between Iran and West... Troubled by comparisons of leader to Hitler... Marvels at Ahmadinejad's civil engineering degree, 'intellect', 'savvy'... Asks viewers not to bring 'prejudices' to Sunday night '60 MINUTES' broadcast... Proclaims 'discussion' was sincere and not for propaganda purposes... Developing...


Like I said that was not journalism that was treason. I'd love to see that old mans head bashed in with a baseball bat like someone’s post Halloween pumpkin Jack lantern. What a disgusting display of sickening venomous putrid crap.

[XerxesX]

Civilian journalists are supposed to be 50% treasonous and 50% patriotic, and everybody farts now and then. Old farts no more than others. Probably less due to slower metabolism.

GE has started some interesting work on providing energy for the future. hay can probably monopolize their technology anyway. Personally I want a good oldfashioned fireplace, but the worldpops methane output would be quite an addition to self-sufficieny. In a smurfich future when radiation makes survival suites neccesary that methane could run our entertainmen systems :P

[Joeslogic]

Reasonable people need to get together on this we need to stop the proliferation of Nuclear weapons. Everyone knows that Irans intent has nothing to do with energy source he can generate more then enough burning a tiny minescule fraction of his oil.

Either that or give every country on the globe enough ICBMs Nukess, and Satelights complete with the needed technology. And inform all that if one hits the button that invariably the world will be completly destroyed within a few hours.

See if they learn how to respect each others space for a change.

[XerxesX]

That could be detrimental to a secure supply of oil. Everybody without cheap energy enough within its borders would have to beg for mercy and lick ass for real.

[diogenes]

Could it possibly be that they are looking for a nuclear umbrella to prevent their nation from an incursion by western forces?

Nah, that would be crazy. Why would he think a western nation would invade a sovereign middle eastern state? Oh, shit. My bad. The United States invaded the Middle Eastern State of Iraq on the pretense that they were "supporting terrorism" and were developing "weapons of mass destruction". That sounds remarkably familiar. Oh, my bad. That's because they're saying the exact same thing about Iran.

But why would he possibly think he should have a trump card to prevent the invasion of a much larger, better equipped, and better trained military force?

[Joeslogic]

I'm sorry I did not know that Iran was peacefull and reciently decided to build a nuclear bomb due to unnecessary threats by the U.S. I take it all back. Where do I enlist to help out in whatever way I can with the Nuclear program in Iran cause god knows its justified and reasonable. They do need a nuclear bomb any reasonable person can see that.

[diogenes]

If we're going to present false dichotomy then we'll use this one. Either we have to invade Iran and destroy their nuclear research, or we leave them be and they use a nuclear weapon against us. There are many more options then that, but you refuse to acknowledge them.

Iran is a sovereign nation, if they wish to develope nuclear power that is their right. They are not required to comply with U.N. orders, any more then the U.S. was required to follow U.N. directives when it invaded Iraq. The situation is much more complicated then you present it as Joe. Of course, you're all for freedom and allowing people to do what they want, until they disagree with you. Then you're all about authoritarianism.

That's why they should take a bat to Mike Wallace's head. How dare he paint the leader of Iran as anything more then a one-dimensional despot bent on the nuclear destruction of the western world?

[Joeslogic]

Wow I though that was pretty strong statement and was beginning to think it slipped right under the radar. Kudos Dio! But after that display of treason I would still relish the idea, I'm picturing it right now in my mind kind of like Chester's Kangaroo pic with the back basked in ands an eyeball popped out of socket and the sheer peacefulness of it all. Over no more to listen to no more damage to do.

Where did I say (and this one I won't let you dodge) that there were no other options on the table except a military invasion of Iran?

I'm simply asking for an "on the record" accounting right now of weather anyone believes that that Iranian shithead is attempting to develop a nuclear weapons program.

Who knows the little shit could be bluffing. And we invade and All Gore has a partial aneurism "He Played on our fears!" the left wing and conspiracy theorist develop stories that it was all a smoke and mirrors trick by the Illuminati. Or some Secrete Bohemian cult.

[XerxesX]

There you go again. "Shithead" is not a neutral term and carries little meaning as long as even shitheads carry their shit further down in the system. I understand that "shit" can be the most subjective of all anglo-saxon terms but even so....

Iran need nukes, ( from an iranian perspective ), if you ask ten taxidrivers in Teheran eight will likely reply that Iran need both nukes and a more western-style democracy.

The russian offer of refining the fuel for them seemed to solve the problem of nuclear power for civilian use. What happened there ? Why didnt they get their shit together ?

[Joeslogic]

Haha! Yeah on the first I admit I'm not very subjective. But I mean this guy would make a better cartoon character than Kim Jung isn't that his name the North Korea Dictator? Just picture it in the same spirit as that movie "Team America" This short little bowed up man with a perpetual grin on his face talking about ruling the world and being the 12th Prophet.
I mean to me that’s a shithead. :lol:

On the second point yeah they hate us and want to emulate us

On the third point. Yeah man no shit that’s what I'm talking about. But its not like it is any secret everyone knows how ridiculous it is.

[diogenes]

If you don't think invasion is the only viable means of dealing with the Iranian nuclear situation the I'd like to hear what other options you consider viable for dealing with the situation. You don't trust the U.N., you don't think they should be allowed to develope peaceful nuclear technology, you don't think that an Arab coalition would handle the situation properly, and the situation just isn't going to go away on its own. So what other options are you proposing to get the outcome you want?

[Joeslogic]

Going by your logic you are systematically eliminating any other option Dio what do you want me to do call you a liar? There are ways but first of all hiding out head in the sand and denial is not one of them.

[diogenes]

You've never had a problem with calling me a liar in the past, why should that change now.

I'm saying prove me wrong. List the other options you consider viable.

[Joeslogic]

How about forego all the destructivness and consider the common world need against Nuclear proliferation. How about work together? You are all about confrontation. Come back when you are ready to talk, peace out.

[diogenes]

Those aren't options, those are reasons.

And since when do you have a problem with confrontation?

[Joeslogic]

How many people did you talk into making bad financial decisions for a better profit on real estate loan today Dio. Did you brow beat them on their credit till they believed that they were lucky to get your less than prime rate? Did you convince them to go for some interest only up front plan with increasing interest on the idea that they can refi in a few years with a better fixed rate? There is a sucker or a desperate person every day huh?

It's ok the more people you cn talk into making bad financial decisions the more people you can then snare with class warfare politics of envy. A nice little cycle that works really well. When it all tumbles down it will be the fault of the rich republicans the big business interest.

Like I said until we stop the politics of destruction. Until the media stops trying its damdest to assist in helping terrorism win becuase they would consider it a defeate for Bush. The sooner we can turn this shit around. A small dose of reality in this surel world we live in now would go a long way to make a start. The we can get somewhere with diplomacy.

[XerxesX]

Quoth Joe ?

How about forego all the destructivness and consider the common world need against Nuclear proliferation. How about work together? You are all about confrontation. Come back when you are ready to talk, peace out.
Quoth joe ?

How many people did you talk into making bad financial decisions for a better profit on real estate loan today Dio. Did you brow beat them on their credit till they believed that they were lucky to get your less than prime rate?

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

And then

Like I said until we stop the politics of destruction. Until the media stops trying its damdest to assist in helping terrorism win becuase they would consider it a defeate for Bush. The sooner we can turn this shit around. A small dose of reality in this surel world we live in now would go a long way to make a start. The we can get somewhere with diplomacy.

Please marry me Joe ! We go west and live the sweet life in SanFran 8)

[Joeslogic]

Yes Xerx it was ironic but intentionally so. Dio said he wanted confrontation so I went off subject and went personal thus diminishing the viability of his option by questioning his character. Then back on topic ironically so saying why we don’t stop the politics of destruction.

My offer still stands to discuss real ways and means of dealing with the issue diplomatically.

[XerxesX]

Yes Joe you want to discuss diplomatic soultions NOW while THEN you wanted to let the guns speak, and since neo-com politics made strategy USA is bogged down in the middle and not so middle east. Now the government is fighting to prevent, either an embarrasing defeat, or to come out looking like genocidal nazi maniacs.

That was never about traitorous journalism. It has so far not been a repetition of the vietnam war, where the military thesis was that the war was lost on the home front.
You cant have your Camaro and feed them new Abrams and Raptors at the same time. These things cost money. However, if it was a major world war between a christianity and islam that was the agenda, then they might have gotten that, but since scientific priniples exist in research, there is no way it will be blamed on the muslems in the future. That would in case be a totalitarian future.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/09/AR2006080901514.html

[Joeslogic]

Yes Joe you want to discuss diplomatic soultions NOW while THEN you wanted to let the guns speak

I'm not sure which you are referring to. As for Iraq well diplomacy went nowhere for 12 years as a matter of fact all it resulted in was corruption amongst our supposed allies against us. Basically other countries were making millions off of our compassion in the oil for food program and in the end it seems there were being blackmailed for having done so. As bad as it had gotten in 12 years where do you suppose it would be in another 12? As for Afghanistan we were not attacking them or in anyway provoking them when they attacked us were we? So much for diplomacy there. As for Israel in Lebanon. There was an attempt at diplomacy called Resolution ....ah.. 15(something) 1531? Anyways that was the so called diplomacy. In every one of these cases the bad behaviors is not on the side of the Americans or the Israeli's the bad behavior is on the side of the Terrorists.
Oh and the Washington Post ... PFFFFFFT a virtual communist publishing house.

[XerxesX]

PFFFFFFT ? Apart from that you have good points here.

Hizballah is not a terrorist organisation though. They have a strong backing and fight on or close to their own land.

( Nowadays people use "terrorist" about "foe" and thats a shame. Read this palestinian writer and she wrote "israeli terrorist acts" ).

I was talking about all that going into foreign land with huge armies, but I can be mistaken and fooled as to the political programme of the conservative wing in Islam. If this programme would be hardline anyway it would be good strategy to try that "preemptive" thing. But nothing indicates that a broad muslim population would have supported the hardliners if we had not put them in such a position.

Afghanistan never attacked you. They harboured a terrorist that used his illgained cia knowledge in an attempt at driving western influence out of his native land, Saudi-arabia. USA allso harbours terrorists from drugtrafficking and genocide-squads ( school of the americas ).

One could argue that you attacked Afghanistan. The socialist republic was starting to get their women out of the closets and into social life. A slow awakening to education and toothbrushes under the sovjet umbrella.

Afghanistan was used as a trap for the sovjet war-machine. Islam was awoken as a counter-communist ideology. The results have been striking.

[Joeslogic]

One could argue that you attacked Afghanistan. The socialist republic was starting to get their women out of the closets and into social life. A slow awakening to education and toothbrushes under the sovjet umbrella.


The Persians of Afghanistan were at one time far ahead of many of its Arabic neighbors in the advancement of education and living conditions what have you. I would argue that the soviets screwed it up and created the breeding ground for radical fundamentalist Muslim groups.

I'll say that my definition of terrorists. Un uniformed (Hezbollah does fit this they only wear uniforms for photo ops it would seem). Tend to use the cover of Civilian population. Use scare tactics to control local population such as the bombings. Disregard Geneva conventions.

Frankly I'm surprised to see this coming from you Xerx comparing apples to oranges and making excuses for them.

In the war on terror we cannot afford to allow a country to sit idly by and allow themselves to be overrun by an shadow government of terrorists. While they take a hands off approach to diplomacy claiming innocence. In the case of Afghanistan we did not attach their country we rescued them.

This will go on for years to come however hatred breeds hatred. The world will continue becoming more evil. I believe it just like they do I just do not believe that I can strap a bomb to myself and hasten the coming of the end. The tide could be turned but it will not be the main instigators are the media pundits that legitimize the absurd this encourages masses of desperate people to join the fold.

[Joeslogic]

http://www.shoebat.com/

Check out the From Love to Hate video trailer. And tell me Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization.

Also here is the catch 22.

Judge Nixes Warrantless Surveillance (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060817/D8JI9A281.html)

The leftists in this country are doing everything in their power to assist the terrorists in the war on terror. It is really quite obvious to those who care to observe. The catch 22 is that they will not be called out publicly for having done so either now when they do what they do. Or later when the result of their actions is prolonging the war and preventing success the game now is obstruct success in as much possible way as permit able. While at the same time bombard the public with continuous ant-war propaganda to convince them it is un-winnable.

While neglecting to consider the only alternative is to simply convert submissively to a theocratic state that is entirely against any other religion or agnosticism for that matter. There is no diplomacy with these people. People will figure that out after it’s all but too late. All in the name of political warfare the Left is destroying this country.

There is no turning back and loss is not an option. That judge is a stupid like a fox knows well and true that the resident is well within the guidelines for what he has power to do during a time of war. It is his sworn promise to protect the constitution and the country it stands for. This is all about propaganda for the left talking points in forums like this.

[XerxesX]

Its the old thingie about taking freedom away for freedoms sake. Sacrifice and dicipline are for real. But wars nowadays are impossible to win without a popular base. Do you have that in Iraq ?

Far right claims the left aids the terrorists and far left that the far right created the terrorists in the first place, and will continue to create them as long as current policies are pursued.

Maybe one needs both carrot and whip ?

As for the russians screwing up Afghanistan. Both british and russian agents had been there some two centuries before that again.
Maybe Afghanistan just had the bad luck of being an impenetrable mountain stronghold ? The russians started modernisation and oldfashioned islam was used as a weapon against the sovjets. These are facts. Another way to put it would be to say that USA helped Islam to regain the land of Afghanistan from the socialist infidel. That is allso fact. It is the same fact.

[Joeslogic]

Its the old thingy about taking freedom away for freedoms sake. Sacrifice and discipline are for real. But wars nowadays are impossible to win without a popular base. Do you have that in Iraq ?

Consider turning on the television, radio, or chatting at the water cooler or on a forum. A means of gathering intelligence. No we are not secrete agents but quite simply when we observe and digest information we in essence are gathering intelligence. Weather or not we can make quality observations is derived entirely on the quality of our intelligence we observe. To put it bluntly the idea of drawing any sort of conclusive opinion on the Iraq situation is foolish. At best we can only make wild assumptions given the crap intelligence we are getting.

Is the media helping or hindering? In my opinion hindering obviously the more that the Iraqi people are convinced that we are evil, rape and pillage their population, have bad intent, are opportunist with the intent of keeping them under our boot hills for the sake of oil. Or whatever other propaganda they are fed the less likely we will have that reliable base you talk about.

Here is some Intel for you: http://www.theotheriraq.com/ take it for what it is and look at it objectively. Let me know what you think.


Far right claims the left aids the terrorists and far left that the far right created the terrorists in the first place, and will continue to create them as long as current policies are pursued.

The left does not understand what kind of damage they are doing. They saw 911 and their stomach turned not because necessarily of the people that dies and the attack on out country but instead they saw a hated president that they felt reluctant to rally behind under the circumstance. That has gradually changed till at this point they have forgotten about the fact that this is a war on terrorism to them it’s a war with Bush and a victory for terrorists is a victory for the Democrats. They are literally tearing this country apart and if they cannot have control would rather take the country down.

As far as the right creating terrorism. I ask the question when? Post or pre 911 because Islamic fascism has been going on since the 60's. We are talking about an area of the world where at one time there were fairly equal numbers of religious populations. That are now better than 90 percent Muslim. All of which believe that in the end the world will be an Islamic state. And It would seem as if 50 percent now are of the radical persuasion that it is their duty to hasten the coming of their Islamic state by killing the infidels or forcing them to convert. Other religions have been virtually wiped out not necessarily by conversion. PEOPLE DIE because they do not adhere to their theocratic rules.

So at what point did the right go in and create this situation. Was it during the beginnings of the freemasons? The Illuminati? The cult of the Skull and Bones?

Ridiculous? Yes! This situation built up to the fever pitch that it currently is over a slow process of time.

Did misery and poverty feed it like fertilizer? Yes it did and the right has never benefited from others perceived misery. The party that capitalizes on that is the left thank you.


USA helped Islam to regain the land of Afghanistan from the socialist infidel. That is also fact. It is the same fact.

Sad but I can assume for the MOST part true. And it was not me that did it so how about we the free people roll up our sleeves, stop fighting amongst ourselves and assist the Afghani people in succeeding with their democracy. One thing about it the war over there is in the hearts and minds of the people. Spreading innuendo and lies will not help nothing ever good becomes of the lies.

[XerxesX]

A friedn of mine was there a few years ago. ( He was in Nepal when the shit hit the fan there as well ). As for Afghanistan and Islam. If you mis-read the bible you can allso get an ideology that is detrimental to life. Salomos "all is meaningless" can be one example. Same would go for the other major religions. One cannot make an argument that cant be taken out of context and perverted. It is quite possible to get all nations under Islam without changing the religious makeup of nations. Islam means submission to the will of God in arabic. It can be understood as zen, ( Non-doing ) , and has nothing to do with slavery. A good christian is a good muslim if he refrains from drinking and pork and respects Islam as a religion. ( This is not the ruling interpretation, but it is a valid one ).

Yes ! The kurds have finally gotten a peacefull homeland, free of repression, ( More or less ), It is a long time since they were soldout by the CIA for the love of Saddam. Cant blame them for that either. It is "realpolitik" as Bismarck would have said. A certain degree of fanaticicsm is considered bravery and we have worshipped those willing to die for their society, all of us, but if these "heroes" take their society with them the whole process stinks. Realpolitik must temper the moral dogmas of our holy scriptures. If not the interpreter don`t get the message therein , and they sure cant help their people.

As for the roght creating terrorism, poor people have rebelled against the preassure of liberalism. Poor people usually pay bodily for the industrialisation of their respective countries. ( From the industrialisation of Britain some hundred years ago, and up untill now ) . It might be neccesary, but it comes out as evil when you are on the receiving end of constantly "competitive" wages, while a few get rich and water gets privatized.

[Joeslogic]

If those assholes in the South want to kill themselves let em. Iraq was a huge success if only for the sake of the Kurds. The story of Northern Iraq goes untold because simply it is a positive story.

As for your statement:


A good christian is a good muslim if he refrains from drinking and pork and respects Islam as a religion.

You can look find and pick a place where that may be true say Lebanon for instance. But you have to ask; for how long? Even there the radical extremist are taking over. This true even when they have a small minority of the population control. What do you think it is like in for instance Iran where the Christian is a really small minority? There are modern day Christian Maryters throughout the world and always at the hand of Muslims and not the other way around.

[XerxesX]

As for your statement

As for your statement:

Quote:
A good christian is a good muslim if he refrains from drinking and pork and respects Islam as a religion.


You can look find and pick a place where that may be true say Lebanon for instance. But you have to ask; for how long? Even there the radical extremist are taking over. This true even when they have a small minority of the population control. What do you think it is like in for instance Iran where the Christian is a really small minority? There are modern day Christian Maryters throughout the world and always at the hand of Muslims and not the other way around.


And muslims are killed in Europe now and again.
You have hatecrime in the states as well.

Some of what you say about democrats and journalists allso makes that a viable case in the states. That democrats and republicans cant live together, and that republicans will allways be the victims of a leftist terrorist-friendly media, untill war settles it !

The rightwing frontpagemagazine say it sweet and short.
"Work with us now, or for us later".

[Joeslogic]

Good magazine. I like the quote not sure how it applies to journalism except that eventually people will see that they were being fed a ration of shit by the left media and tunes them out entirely. I say that is a naive assumption. All they have to do is spin another lie to cover the initial lie and the web continues to be spun eventually history rewritten even.

Still a good magazine though.

[XerxesX]

You know what I think about your assumption of a leftist controlled media in the states. The critique raized in papers like the NYT is not that harsh, and an important part of keeping your democracy alive. The frontpage magazine spews out its filth in a broad fan. Their hate is scary and might be the reason you want to bash in the heads of senior citicens with baseballbats. This war-chant can hurt your country. The current middle-eastern policy is a disaster for the populations in the region. That they then hate you back is no suprise.

The idea that this is a clash of civilisations where USA and Israel are the brave spearheads is at best naive. While people hide in their respective religions, ( mine is christianity ), you planet suffers inder the strain of excess population and consumption. I do not think you are evil Joe. That is why I warn you against frontpage. They might have their place in the scheme of things, but they are a danger to your nation, or to democracy, or both. 8 They occasionally have good interviews though ). personally I like Znet and I have read Leyla Muammars blog during this Israeli-Hizballah terror of civilians in northern Israel and Lebanon. And even though she consequently calls the israeli military "terrorist" I know there is another side to it. Znet has an open blog though. I cant seem to find that on frontpage, but then they are at "war", and have been since Horrowitz got abducted by UFO`s.

[XerxesX]

But since that Kamenei absolutely puts nuclear power on his otherworldly agenda I will read some frontpagemag myself.

[Joeslogic]

The frontpage magazine spews out its filth in a broad fan. Their hate is scary and might be the reason you want to bash in the heads of senior citicens with baseballbats.

I don’t see the hatred please show me the hatred? My emotional reaction to someone of extreme power like Mike Wallace to stand there and abuse this opportunity to try to taint the truth and pervert reality to the extent that he does all with the only obvious objective of legitimizing an egomaniac like the Iranian President at the expense of diplomacy. Should have his head bashed in as an act of self defense. But that just my knee jerk reaction he will eventually get his it’s coming. Mike Wallace as well as most of the media elites are traitors to their country.


This war-chant can hurt your country. The current middle-eastern policy is a disaster for the populations in the region. That they then hate you back is no suprise.

What war chant? I hear no war chant. I hear a “for Christ sake this is ridiculous why are we not taking appropriate measures to defend ourselves” chant and this is only normal I would say.

You imply that the middle east hates us because we defended ourselves. I’m saying they absolutely do not they hate us for what they have been told by the media about us. People like “sweet, kind, compassionate, wise, Mike Wallace” They create chaos in our own country due explicitly to our approach when dealing with them which is tainted by our socialist policies. Political Correctness is the problem and that’s not a problem that you can attribute to frontpage mag. Political correctness is the reason why we avoid searching the bastards at airports and instead randomly search little old grandmothers that are no more a terrorist than a cow is about to jump over a moon.

Look at France, England, Germany who takes a different more accomidating approach to the middle eastern people. What do they get for being nice?

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image009.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image008.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image007.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image006.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image005.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image004.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image003.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image002.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/image001.jpg

This war chant is hurting our country you say?

Maybe we should take the French approach.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/452_1french.jpg

[XerxesX]

The hatred lies in their monotonic description of facts twisted to their agenda. "If Iran wants nukes , lets give it to them". If you want to see these things you should start with your assumption that bashing in the head of a journalist is an act of self defence.

That you cant even discriminate between your hate of the iranian prez and a journalist that intewivs him while treating the head of state of a foreign nation with respect says it all. There is the hate and if you see it in yourself you allso see it in that sturmfrontpage.

I could be willing to view some of the rightwing killers from the wars in central and south america as soldiers on one of two sides. They have no such ability. For them the people that fought against US interrests were, and allways will be "terrorists".

The gap this creates will end up hurting somebody. I am sick and tired of "warriors" hurting people through harsh onedimentional words and bad stratagems.

You were speaking of the other Iraq the other day, and the kurdish situation is cool, but you now need help from Nato in Afghanistan, you have serious problems in Iraq, and you have these frontpage-freaks calling for a broadening of the war. Both you and I know what tactics that would entail. Maybe you would not mind doing to civilian ireanian infrastructure what Israel did to the lebanese.

The journalists are not the traitors here Joe. You are. You spit on the freedom of the press and you spit on the basic human rights. The revisionism is nor coming from the left here. It is coming from the right and it has been planned as an act of warfare. "To win the media war" has proven difficult. The danger has shown to be that the media.warrior ends up attacking his own power-base. ( This base is divided in its opinion of the war and of how it should be run ) If you want to see a smart republican, study the language of C.Rice, and lately allso G.W.Bush. It could have been fun dicussing this oldtimers talk with the iranian prime, but when headbashing and talk of traitorous media comes along thats not possible.

"Work with us now or for us later" is a threat of economic sanctions. Their whole setup is terrorising people to shut up and fall in line. I sure hope this isnt a sigh that USA is about to crack up and fall apart. That kind of talk seems quite desperate.

[XerxesX]

As for "behead those that insult Islam". Why not stay on another level ?

[pimpchichi]

Maybe we should take the French approach.

i've said it before i'll say it again...
if it weren't for the french you'd be speaking english... stupid yankee prick

[diogenes]

Browbeat into making bad financial decisions? You want to talk about diplomatic solutions, but anyone that disagrees with you is completely irrational and must be dealt with by force. That's your MO Joe. Now go off and work your government job and continue bitching about how your paycheck is a waste of taxpayer dollars and it's all the democrats fault. We're all listening very closely to what it is that you have to say.

Just because you were outsmarted by a loan officer doesn't mean that we're all out for a commission check. Some people actually believe in repeat business Joe.

[Joeslogic]

No bad financial decisions here Dio I did loose money on my last home because I only lived there about 1.5 years after the mortgage at 100% plus finance charges. I paid high market value for the home because I knew it was a good investment. Ironically since the year it’s been about after I left the values are shooting up there quite simply because it’s a high demand really convenient area with a rarity. Flat 1 to 1.5 Acre lawns with single level ranch homes. And mature trees built in the late 80's early 90's and all brick. You can pretty much find all of those attributes except for that quality of yard and still be conveniently located in town.

The guy who purchased it got screwed though he went for a conventional 80 20 and paid huge finance fees.

I'm savvy enough to see an asshole coming a mile away. Any good sales person is an asshole. It's what they do for a living. If I were you I would work on getting my other license. Insurance (term not whole) investments, financial consultant. Try getting paid to advise people to make honest good decisions in their best interest not yours.

[XerxesX]

I was scammed today because Romanian Ley has changed from 40 per dollar to 4 the last year. Naivite can be useful though. A broad acceptance of information can be sifted at a later point. I hear that the US real estate market is pretty rotten. Yanks are good at capitalism though, youll make do and get by somehow. A permanent place to live sounds cool. Might dull your senses though.

[Joeslogic]

THings are just fine in the market. Be very suspicious of your information source.

[pimpchichi]

IAEA say US are "outrageous and dishonest" (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913629943&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

[Joeslogic]

Interesting from two perspectives one that it implies that I ran is not seeking weapons grade uranium after all the threats and posturing that that weirdo Iranian president has been doing. And then also that the article came from jpost.com . Definitely something to watch I would say.

[Joeslogic]

Iran recruiting up to a million police to cope with mounting unrest


Iran is planning a major expansion of its police forces to contain demonstrations in the capital by students and workers that authorities fear the U.S. is backing. Over the past year, Teheran has struggled with increasing student and labor unrest. Authorities have been concerned that the United States would finance Iranian dissidents to undermine the mullah regime.


http://www.geostrategy-direct.com/geostrategy%2Ddirect/

[Joeslogic]

Iran emboldened by weak Democrats controlling congress see the green light for terrorists agression tactics.

Ahmadinejad: Israel’s destruction near (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-%20%203327439,00.html)

Published: 11.13.06, 08:53

According to the Iranian media Monday, Iranian President Mahoud Ahmadinejad declared that Israel was destined to ‘disappearance and destruction’ at a council meeting with Iranian ministers.

“The western powers created the Zionist regime in order to expand their control of the area. This regime massacres Palestinians everyday, but since this regime is against nature, we will soon witness its disappearance and destruction,” Ahmadinejad said. (AFP)

Not only that we also are about to see reports that :

PAPER: IRAN PLOTTING TO GROOM BIN LADEN'S SUCCESSOR...

(Keep an eye out on the DrudgeReport)

People will quickly rally to a frenzy of talk that it’s is a lie and not happening at all. But it fits perfectly into the grand scheme of Iranian behavior. The Palestinians as well as Iran have done it using Hammas and the PLO as a proxy for government sponsored terrorists activity. It is only obvious that they would use the same tactic by taking AlQaeda under the wing and why? Because they are emboldened by a weak congress. This is a direct result of the Democratic takeover.

[XerxesX]

I met a nice young iranian girl visiting Goa with her family ( I think it was her father and hr mother and her aunt ). We talked quite some. I let my beer stand and started drinking water. She invited me over to their table and I refused on the grounds that with to many tats showing it was unseeming. So she brought a plate of food over and the wee young thing studies law and has no problem at all. She fuzzed a bit about womens right and I said the usual stuff about death-penalties in general.

The opposition seems to suffer some under the totalistic neo-con approach, just like in Venezuela. ( And lets not get started on Iraq, where 150 scientists and other personell and visitors were kidnapped from the department of edu in Baghdad ).

One allways needs a working approach to a problem. Angry is not allways enough.

So Irans new approach started now did it, as opposed to when your beloved con-men engaged in a foolish campaing against the judgement of the analythic community ?

Iran has been emboldened by foolish republican tactics and they have flaunted it ALL THIS TIME. For a military man you have a really weird sense of reality. Illusion will harm you in the real world Joe. Dont hurt your country. Its historic role in the spread of democracy, as well as your fellow americans deserve better.

[Joeslogic]

Iran watches American politics while Americans watch football.

I refuse to waste anymore time going around and trying to figure out how to spell thier stupid names so here goes.

Amarijidian is emboldened that Dems are in control of the house sure he is. To deny that is to be blind. Look at Kim Jong he was ready to come to the table to negotiate while facing the othe alternative of sanctions. What happens? Hillary runs to make a public speech about how we should go to them to talk vs sanctions. Just what he needed to hear to get the hint to back off. Democratic policy for 6 years now has bee more than obstruct but actually sabotage. What is bad for the country makes Bush look bad and it has been proven that they will pay no consequence. The main democratic focus for the Dems right now is to send signals to the brave Iraqi's standing up for democracy that the carpet is about to be jerked out from under them and remind them that when it happened and they go under strict Taliban type Shira law their whole family will have to pay brutally. Why so that for the next one hundred years they can spin it as a republican catastrophe.

[XerxesX]

No ! That is just dead wrong. Ahmadinejan has been strutting since the invasion. You KNOW that. You have complained about it.

With US troops in Iraq you loose so much of your clout as to Iran. If, like Donnie Rumsfelt, ( Seen shaking hands with Saddam ), said, "we are looking at a short war, six days, six weeks, I doubt six months......."

IF that had been true you would have been in a great position to coerce Iran. Now it sucks and NO, it was not a dem strategy.

You saw how Hezbollah fought back ? Hitting armor and ships ? Now imagine the insurge of insurgents if USA or Israel physically attacks Iran. They will go bonkers and Iraq will be a true mess.

You have to remember that the new conmens iraqi advisors were just corrupt businessmen, ( some with sentences ), just like themselves. My iraqi informants were insurgents against Saddam when Sr backed down due to a fear of a new Vietnam and the UN-limitations. You cant compare those two sources as for credibility or angle.

Or short.

You are dead wrong.

[Joeslogic]

It was a democratic strategy in the making just like reacting to the towers was a strategy in the making. The Dems seized in on the opportunity to fight the propaganda war against their own country and it was profitable for them to do so. The fact that you can deny this makes me either question your integrity or your understanding of American politics.

I think your integrity is in tact but you simply do not understand. Yes it is true Ahmadinejan has been strutting since the invasion. That I do not deny. But the idea that since that is the case one should simply deny that a party in control of the house that is aggressively against military strength. A party with a history of rewarding bad behavior ie Korea, Iraq, Iran, Libia......You really think this does not embolden Ahmadinejan?

Xerx come on really?

[smurfslappa]

What do you propose we do about North Korea, Joe?

[Joeslogic]

Figure out what screwed up diplomacy allowed the situation to get to where it is at. NEVER do it again.

It is called appeasement, or rewarding bad behavior.

Then once we have figured out that one assasinate all persons in congress that would gladly sabatage diplomatic efforts with North Korea for their own political efforts or due to their sympathetic views towards communism.

Then current policy will work.

[Joeslogic]

Of course I'm being sarcastic. Informing the public truthfully is a step in the right direction. The problem is a media one.

Remember when Bush took over from Clinton? This was post dot.com economy bust and we were in a recession? The news media was trying to prop the economy up and if anyone said anything about the fact that things were not looking good. They were accused of "Talking down" the economy as if this was the cause for the slump that we were in that someone mentioned that things did not look as rosy as portrayed?

This is just one example of how the media works to manipulate public perception. They wanted to prop those last two years up in a state of denial then hand a catastrophe to Bush and then point all blame on him. Well it looks like Bush took the lemons he was handed and against overwhelming odds made lemonade.

This media manipulation encourages bad behavior. The reason Korea has nukes put quite simply is because we sent scientists and engineers over to Korea and educated their scientist and built Nuclear reactors for them to power their country as a plan of appeasement for the bad behavior a barter if you will.

Check out all the electric power the North Koreans have to light their country at night:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/Joeslogic/koreaREU121006_228x295.jpg

Has the left as of yet paid any price for this bad behavior? Have you seen the news reports educating the masses as to why we are where we are? Have you seen the cynical remarks on the "Daily Show" the cynical comedic skits on "Mad" illustrating how ridicules foreign diplomacy throughout the 90's was?

The answer is no you have not. And you won't either. For this very reason everyone sees Korea as a Bush issue rather than a Democratic policy problem. The Bad behavior has been rewarded. The missing link there is the fifth column the media.

So of course on the eve of a breakthrough on Korean negotiations under the threat of embargo Hillary Clinton will make a speech indirectly pointed at Kim Jung signaling him to stand firm. She will pay no penalty and reap the reward of making Bush look bad.

The left will not think twice about damaging this countries security for their own political gain because quite simply they are allowed to do so by a media who is just a radical as they are and intent on bringing them back into power.

[XerxesX]

Military strength is a term that should not be applied on a specific strategy. The strenght of neccesitating victory is not equal to its applicable utility other than to Then its poker, and do not make the mistake of confusing the tactical victories of the first gulf war and the initial success of the second , with the longterm neccesities of our now and here.

The operation seems bogged down in the quagmire.
There are to many iraqis , and others, dying. To many maimed americans coming home and to many subtextual linguistic changes being brought to the fire and the counsil when all the young braves , and those young second time, go galloping over the plains. Wise words get lost in anger.

And that whip and carrot routine does not seem to work in PyongYang.

[Joeslogic]

There is a lot of spin going on here and you’re getting caught up in it. We went into this knowing that this could be a decade’s long war against terrorism. Election year politics and a party that will gladly exploit the situation have built up this idea that no one ever thought about long term issues. Democracy has never been easy in the Middle East. Can you count for me enough countries that are democratic Arabic or Persian countries and are democratic?

Xerx you need to read “The Time Traveler” (http://www.fuglyforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8907) the real lie here is that things will be better if we simply become more politically correct. What we need is less pandering to the politically correct not more.