Population Control

[Nursey]

I'm interested to hear your views on both the following articles.

WORLD DEPOPULATION IS TOP NSA AGENDA: CLUB OF ROME (http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/depopulation.htm)

A Timely Repost:



The Haig-Kissinger depopulation policy by Lonnie Wolfe

Special Report EIR (Executive Intelligence Review) March 10, 1981


Investigations by EIR have uncovered a planning apparatus operating outside the control of the White House whose sole purpose is to reduce the world's population by 2 billion people through war, famine, disease and any other means necessary. This apparatus, which includes various levels of the government is determining U.S. foreign policy. In every political hotspot -- El Salvador, the so-called arc of crisis in the Persian Gulf, Latin America, Southeast Asia and in Africa- the goal of U.S. foreign policy is population reduction. The targeting agency for the operation is the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population Policy. Its policy-planning group is in the U.S. State Department's Office of Population Affairs, established in 1975 by Henry Kissinger. This group drafted the Carter administration's Global 2000 document, which calls for global population reduction, and the same apparatus is conducting the civil war in El Salvador as a conscious depopulation project.



"There is a single theme behind all our work-we must reduce population levels," said Thomas Ferguson, the Latin American case officer for the State Department's Office of Population Affairs (OPA). "Either they [governments] do it our way, through nice clean methods or they will get the kind of mess that we have in El Salvador, or in Iran, or in Beirut. Population is a political problem. Once population is out of control it requires authoritarian government, even fascism, to reduce it "The professionals," said Ferguson, "aren't interested in lowering population for humanitarian reasons. That sounds nice. We look at resources and environmental constraints. We look at our strategic needs, and we say that this country must lower its population-or else we will have trouble.

So steps are taken. El Salvador is an example where our failure to lower population by simple means has created the basis for a national security crisis. The government of El Salvador failed to use our programs to lower their population. Now they get a civil war because of it.... There will be dislocation and food shortages. They still have too many people there."

Civil wars are somewhat drawn-out ways to reduce population, the OPA official added. "The quickest way to reduce population is through famine, like in Africa or through disease like the Black Death," all of which might occur in El Salvador. Ferguson's OPA monitors populations in the Third World and maps strategies to reduce them. Its budget for FY 1980 was $190 million; for FY 198l, it will be $220 million. The Global 2000 report calls for doubling that figure. The sphere of Kissinger In 1975, OPA was brought under a reorganized State Department Bureau of Oceans, International Environmental, and Scientific Affairs-- a body created by Henry Kissinger.

The agency was assigned to carry out the directives of the NSC Ad Hoc Group. According to an NSC spokesman, Kissinger initiated both groups after discussion with leaders of the Club of Rome during the 1974 population conferences in Bucharest and Rome. The Club of Rome, controlled by Europe's black nobility, is the primary promotion agency for the genocidal reduction of world population levels. The Ad Hoc Group was given "high priority" by the Carter administration, through the intervention of National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski and Secretaries of State Cyrus Vance and Edmund Muskie.

According to OPA expert Ferguson, Kissinger initiated a full about-face on U.S. development policy toward the Third World. "For a long time," Ferguson stated, "people here were timid" They listened to arguments from Third World leaders that said that the best contraceptive was economic reform and development. So we pushed development programs, and we helped create a population time bomb. "We are letting people breed like flies without allowing for natural causes to keep population down. We raised the birth survival rates, extended life-spans by lowering death rates, and did nothing about lowering birth rates.

That policy is finished. We are saying with Global 2000 and in real policy that you must lower population rates. Population reduction and control is now our primary policy objective- then you can have some development."Accordingly, the Bureau of Oceans, International Environmental, and Scientific Affairs has consistently blocked industrialization policies in the Third World, denying developing nations access to nuclear energy technology--the policies that would enable countries to sustain a growing population. According to State Department sources, and Ferguson himself, Alexander Haig is a "firm believer" in population control.

"We will go into a country," said Ferguson, "and say, here is your goddamn development plan. Throw it out the window. Start looking at the size of your population and figure out what must be done to reduce it."If you don't like that, if you don't want to choose to do it through planning, then you'll have an El Salvador or an Iran, or worse, a Cambodia."According to an NSC spokesman, the United States now shares the view of former World Bank President Robert McNamara that the "population crisis" is a greater threat to U.S. national security interests than "nuclear annihilation." "Every hot spot in the world corresponds to a population crisis point," said Ferguson who would rename Brzezinski's arc of crisis doctrine the "arc of population crisis."


This is corroborated by statements in the NSC Ad Hoc Group's April 1980 report. There is "an increased potential for social unrest, economic and political instability, mass migration and possible international conflicts over control of land and resources," says the NSC report. It then cites "demographic pressures" as key to understanding "examples of recent warfare in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, El Salvador. Honduras, and Ethiopia, and the growing potential forinstability in such places as Turkey, the Philippines, Central America, Iran, and Pakistan." Through extraordinary efforts, the Ad Hoc Group and OPA estimate that they may be able to keep a billion people from being born through contraceptive programs.

But as the Ad Hoc Group's report states, the best efforts of the Shah of Iran to institute "clean programs" of birth control failed to make a significant dent in the country's birth rate. The promise of jobs, through an ambitious industrialization program, encouraged migration toward "overcrowded cities" like Teheran. Now under Ayatollah Khomeini, the "clean programs" have been dismantled. The government may make progress because it has a program "to induce up to half of Teheran's 6 million residents to relocate, as well as possible measures to keep rural migrants from moving to the cities." Behind the back of the President Ferguson and others involved with the OPA and NSC group maintain that the United States will continue a foreign policy based on a genocidal reduction of the world's population.

"We have a network in place of cothinkers in the government," said the OPA case officer. "We keep going, no matter who is in the White House." But Ferguson reports that the "White House" does not really understand what they are saying and that the President "thinks that population policy means how do we speed up population increase. "As long as no one says differently," said Ferguson, "we will continue to do our jobs. "
Kissinger, Eugenics And Depopulation (http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_13795.shtml)

By Leuren Moret
Nov 21, 2004


Dr. Henry Kissinger, who wrote: "Depopulation should be the highest priority of U.S. foreign policy towards the Third World." Research on population control, preventing future births, is now being carried out secretly by biotech companies. Dr. Ignacio Chapela, a University of California microbiologist, discovered that wild corn in remote parts of Mexico is contaminated with lab altered DNA.

That discovery made him a threat to the biotech industry. Chapela was denied tenure at UC Berkeley when he reported this to the scientific community, despite the embarrassing discovery that UC Chancellor Berdahl, who was denying him tenure, was getting large cash payments - $40,000 per year - from the LAM Research Corp. in Plano, Texas.

Berdahl served as president of Texas A&M University before coming to Berkeley. During a presentation about his case, Chapela revealed that a spermicidal corn developed by a U.S. company is now being tested in Mexico. Males who unknowingly eat the corn produce non-viable sperm and are unable to reproduce. Depopulation, also known as eugenics, is quite another thing and was proposed under the Nazis during World War II. It is the deliberate killing off of large segments of living populations and was proposed for Third World countries under President Carter's administration by the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population Policy.

National Security Memo 200, dated April 24, 1974, and titled "Implications of world wide population growth for U.S. security & overseas interests," says "Dr. Henry Kissinger proposed in his memorandum to the NSC that "depopulation should be the highest priority of U.S. foreign policy towards the Third World." He quoted reasons of national security, and because `(t)he U.S. economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less-developed countries ... "

Wherever a lessening of population can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resources, supplies and to the economic interests of U.S. Depopulation policy became the top priority under the NSC agenda, Club of Rome and U.S. policymakers like Gen. Alexander Haig, Cyrus Vance, Ed Muskie and Kissinger. According to an NSC spokesman at the time, the United States shared the view of former World Bank President Robert McNamara that the "population crisis" is a greater threat to U.S. national security interests than nuclear annihilation.

In 1975, Henry Kissinger established a policy-planning group in the U.S. State Department's Office of Population Affairs. The depopulation "GLOBAL 2000" document for President Jimmy Carter was prepared. It is no surprise that this policy was established under President Carter with help from Kissinger and Brzezinski - all with ties to David Rockefeller.

The Bush family, the Harriman family - the Wall Street business partners of Bush in financing Hitler - and the Rockefeller family are the elite of the American eugenics movement. Even Prince Philip of Britain, a member of the Bilderberg Group, is in favor of depopulation.

If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels" (Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund, quoted in "Are You Ready for Our New Age Future?" Insiders Report, American Policy Center, December 1995). Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has been proposing, funding and building Bio-Weapons Level 3 and Level 4 labs at many places around the U.S. even on university campuses and in densely populated urban locations.

In a Bio-Weapons Level 4 facility, a single bacteria or virus is lethal. Bio-Weapons Level 4 is the highest level legally allowed in the continental U.S.<for font mayor She suddenly reversed her position after a monkey escaped from a high security primate facility on the campus where the bio-weapons lab was proposed. Residents claimed that if UC Davis could not keep monkeys from escaping from their cages, they certainly could not guarantee that a single virus or bacteria would not escape from a test tube. The AWOL monkey killed the project.

[ucicare]

Just a quick reality check -

March 10, 1981 - wriiten only 24 years ago.
outside the control of the White House - "so the white house is cleared?"
National Security Memo 200, dated April 24, 1974 - hey, only 3o years ago


This whole post is just more evidence of Nursey's delusions and hair splitting diatribes against the US. I once believed that Nursey was just a brilliant but misguided intellectual from the UK. I now see that she is a brilliant but misguided lunatic from a country that has no clue about the morals, values, and backbone of America. I for one, am tired of the conspiracies and anti-American rhetoric. It is not humorous any more. America is bigger than it's government. It is made up of people. People who by and large are moral, decent, compassionate, caring, ethical, kind, generous, tolerant and intelligent. I am tired of the stereotypes, and the ARROGANCE of people who know nothing of this country, yet stand afar off and take shots at her. I wouldn't trade my citizenship for a fortune if it meant I had to live in any other country on earth.

Post like the one that started this thread serve no purpose other that to waste bandwidth.

Barry

[Nursey]

I asked for people's views on the articles, Barry, not their personal opinions on me. :? Anyway, anyone else?

[pimpchichi]

oh i see barry :x ... your opinion of the uk changed alongside your opinion of nursey....what a fickle 'special relationship' friend you are... at least my country had the balls and backbone to call a spade a spade and be open about it's empirical ambitions....

and where do i learn about these morals and values?... oh i know.. i'll look through that window to the world that america has open to show us all it's morals and values... the silver screen... hmm what shall i watch first?.. kids?.. crash?..

[ucicare]

oh i see barry :x ... your opinion of the uk changed alongside your opinion of nursey....what a fickle 'special relationship' friend you are... at least my country had the balls and backbone to call a spade a spade and be open about it's empirical ambitions....

and where do i learn about these morals and values?... oh i know.. i'll look through that window to the world that america has open to show us all it's morals and values... the silver screen... hmm what shall i watch first?.. kids?.. crash?..


News Flash - every American that I know loathes HOLLYWIERD. The silver screen is used by the most immoral and disenfranchised Anericans to their versions of perversion and corruption. Hollywood may be in America, but it is does not represent America. The fact that it exists is just further evidence of America's freedom and tolerance. I hate HOLLYWIERD.

Barry

[Reizvolles]

Yes, I can see you being very tollerant of other people's opinions and views, Barry. Fucking hypocrite.

[pimpchichi]

hey barry... if we ignore the cradle and the cross... (since thats just marketing and fuck all to do with the mesage)... and just take into account what jesus had to say and what he was trying to teach us... what do you think his opinion would be about the base of power in america (y'know.. the golden calf.. money is god etc..).... and how do you think he would view what you are doing to the world in his name??..

this is a question i have asked often btw.. but i don't think the irony of a credit based society calling itself christian has registered so far

[ucicare]

Yes, I can see you being very tollerant of other people's opinions and views, Barry. Fucking hypocrite.


Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I am intolerant.

Wake up Reiv. You live in this country. Most Americans don't spend their days smoking pot and screwing. Grow up.

Barry

[Reizvolles]

Newsflash, Barry. I don't live in the United Socialists of America. I live in one of the countries of "terrorists" as you class Nursey and crew.

[ucicare]

Newsflash, Barry. I don't live in the United Socialists of America. I live in one of the countries of "terrorists" as you class Nursey and crew.


That explains a lot.

(refocuses mind control antennae a little to the west)


Barry

[Reizvolles]

Can we please get back to the fucking discussion and stop giving a fuck about some anally retentive american nazi thinks? Please? Someone flush the shit and let's start again on the topic. I think Nursey was wanting to know people's views on the articles, not the narrow-mindedness of a one-tracked minded, overly patriotic american nazi.

(please note my lack of capitals - this is on purpose)

[ucicare]

Ok Reiv, back on topic

"Investigations by EIR have uncovered a planning apparatus operating outside the control of the White House whose sole purpose is to reduce the world's population by 2 billion people through war, famine, disease and any other means necessary. This apparatus, which includes various levels of the government is determining U.S. foreign policy."

This statement was made 23 years ago. check the poulation of the countries mentioned. Even if it was true, it had absolutely no effect. The countries continuie to boom.

The post is a waste of band width, because it says and proves absolutely nothing. Period.

And I am definetly not a Nazi.

Barry

[Reizvolles]

Well please don't act like one, Barry. Picking apart everyone's opinions is what gets you a label like this. Trying to get everyone to see your way just won't work. That's exactly what Hitler was doing. Trying to make everyone like him. It's never going to work.

And thank you for making a valid argument on the origonal post. That's what Cold Sober is all about.

If you want to critisize other countries or specific people, that belongs in the freedom of speach thread. And that goes for everyone. I know I am guilty of it too. I think Fugly wants to keep this a proverbial serene thread with constructive critisism; not slagging off at each other, or other countries ect.

[Nauseous]

Oh, okay... then I guess Fugly would have to undertake the arduous task of moving the majority of Nursey's threads over to the Freedom of Speech Forum.

Whatever. The threads belong here as well as everyone's opinions. In case you haven't noticed, opinions are like assholes and as long as you're surrounded by people, you're surrounded by assholes.... I mean, opinons...

To be honest, I wasn't interested enough to read the articles in their entirety. As soon as I realized where it was going, my brain turned into that of a beloved American cartoon character (Butthead) and all I saw were [i]words[\i].

And Reiz... I don't appreciate you throwing around the word nazi. Go read about the Holocaust and familiarize yourself with the nazis before you go around calling someone something so horrible.

Anyway, I think if someone were posting thread upon thread about the evils of the country that you live in (and they don't live in), you would get sick of it also. It's not "hey, guys, look what I found" type of thread, it's a "hey you fucking americans, look at what an evil country you live in" type of thread. I don't care what anyone says, the threads are directed at Americans, hence the reason why my fellow Americans get defensive.

And yes, it's all about us. Because WE'RE ALL SO FUCKING ARROGANT.

"The world looks to America because we are the beautiful."

[Reizvolles]

Do I honestly look like I give a fuck what you think, Barfy?

I said he was one in the sense that he wants everyone to be like him, exactly like Hitler did. I don't think Barry has killed any Jews lately and he hasn't committed Genocide for at least a few years. So that's the furtherest the similarities go.

[ucicare]

Do I honestly look like I give a fuck what you think, Barfy?

I said he was one in the sense that he wants everyone to be like him, exactly like Hitler did. I don't think Barry has killed any Jews lately and he hasn't committed Genocide for at least a few years. So that's the furtherest the similarities go.


.....and I don't have mustache, so there. :)

Barry

[Reizvolles]

You have the very round face though. And the advancing years.

[unlimited-time]

Pukey don't be so niave in associating Nazism with germany.It may have started there but it is well alive and kicking in many countries now.Even your own, so Reiz has every right in saying someone is behaving in a Nazi fashion.Here's a little tip bit from the American Nazi Party.
The year is 2025, White people HAVE become a MINORITY in America. On our streets hang Aryan men who refused to accept the "New Way," or perhaps they just looked too White. Perhaps they never thought MUD RULE would really come.

White girls who refuse the advances of Negroids, are publicly gang-raped so as to serve as examples to other shuddering Aryan females. Children are now taken from their houses, by force, to be brought up in a "Multi-Cultural" home of Negroids, Arabs, Muslims and Gooks, all in the name of "brotherhood and love"...
And yet, some fight back! Alone or in small cells, Aryans...men and boys...but most of all women who stand the most to lose, since the decline of real men among the White Folk, strike back...at night and with any weapon near at hand.

How often do the hunted Whites think back to the "old days," when action and dedicated work, might have Reached, Educated and Organized enough of our folk, to have averted what now seems like a hopeless Hell. All the old excuses for not working for the Movement...My Job...My Money...My Friends...My Fun...My Beer, all gone. All the boasting, but never REALLY sacrificing for what they knew was coming, now it's too late, too late, TOO LATE. Are YOU a TALKER or do YOU make a difference now?
And not a Jew in sight.

[JEFE]

If you want to critisize other countries or specific people, that belongs in the freedom of speach thread. And that goes for everyone. I know I am guilty of it too. I think Fugly wants to keep this a proverbial serene thread with constructive critisism; not slagging off at each other, or other countries ect.

Thank you for saying this. I think that this is something people need to be reminded of from time to time.

[ucicare]

You have the very round face though. And the advancing years.

You are right. I was a college graduate before you were even born. I guess all the years of experience are making me more ignorant by the day. How sad, because when I ws 19, I knew everything.

Barry

[JEFE]

Ok, well someone has to start so it may as well be me. If we’re all finished calling each other names, can we get back on topic?

Nursey, that was all very interesting but I hope you'll agree, the more outrageous a story or news item is, the harder it is for most people to take it at face value and assume it's true, especially of the only source for the information is Rense or some other conspiracy theorist site.

Do you have any other sources for this information than Rense? It's easy to get caught up in these kinds of things and God knows I’m guilty of it too. I used to spend hours reading about chem-trails and other nonsensical things.

Please don’t be offended but I doubt that most of the information your post is accurate. Can you back it up with confirmation from a more credible source?

But to add a little fuel to your fire, do you think that, if population reduction is a priority of the US government’s current administration, that might explain the 3 day delay in any kind of a response to the recent tragedy in Asia? Seems to me that if population reduction is something in which they’re interested, that would have been the perfect move.

Another thing to consider is, how would such a policy survive thirty years and how many different administrations. Who was president in 1974? Nixon?

[Reizvolles]

What the fuck, Barry? Why suddently do you have to throw the age/education difference in my face? I don't care if you have 20 college degrees. All the education in the world can't teach you humanity, humility, empathy, and tolerance. You seem to lack all these somethimes. You just can't admit that you jumped the gun in relation to Nursey's original intention in regards to this thread.

[ucicare]

You just can't admit that you jumped the gun in relation to Nursey's original intention in regards to this thread.


I guess I can't.
I think I made an extremely keen observation that was right on target. The first three lines were a brief refute, and the rest was my personal opinion of the complete lack of credibility in Nursey's most recent posts.

Debate the original post if you want. It makes about as much sense as debating who would win a fist fight between the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Barry

[Schmed]

Well Santa Claus out wieghs him by about 300 lbs, but the easter bunny is fast as fuck, but im wondering if it would be a kickboxing match, as we all know that bunnies can kick and HARD!!! I'm gonna have to say the easter bunnies quickness and stanima would make him the winner, but it would be close!!! :D

[ucicare]

Well Santa Claus out wieghs him by about 300 lbs, but the easter bunny is fast as fuck, but im wondering if it would be a kickboxing match, as we all know that bunnies can kick and HARD!!! I'm gonna have to say the easter bunnies quickness and stanima would make him the winner, but it would be close!!! :D

....as Schmed plays peacemaker by deflecting the tension with humor.... 8) .....he deftly illustrates my point.


We can argue all day, and make good arguments for either, but the unspoken problem remains - neither exist except in our imaginations.
The same is true for the conspiracy theory that started this post. Why debate something that exists only in someone's imagination? If you want to argue who would win, (Santa or EB) doesn't it really need to start with an argument of whether they are real? And if you argue that they are real....... a waste of bandwidth, as I said.

Barry

[Schmed]

Wait a second..are you telling me Santa isn't real???

[ucicare]

Wait a second..are you telling me Santa isn't real???


He is real if you really believe that he's real.


hum.... wonders if the same if true for God...???


Barry

[Schmed]

Wait a second..are you telling me Santa isn't real???


He is real if you really believe that he's real.


hum.... wonders if the same if true for God...???


Barry


His Theolgion ideals may be false...but his happiness is real.

[Reizvolles]

I'm gonna go for Satan Claus. He's one bad ass mofo.

[ucicare]

I'm gonna go for Satan Claus. He's one bad ass mofo.

If I support Santa too can we be friends again? :cry:

Barry

[Reizvolles]

We were friends? First I knew about it.

[Nauseous]

Do I honestly look like I give a fuck what you think, Barfy?

I said he was one in the sense that he wants everyone to be like him, exactly like Hitler did. I don't think Barry has killed any Jews lately and he hasn't committed Genocide for at least a few years. So that's the furtherest the similarities go.

Well, honestly, it's kind of hard to tell what you 'look like' when all you post are pictures of Karen Carpenter's body.

Nazi isn't a word to throw around lightly.

And Hitler didn't want everyone to be like him. If it weren't for the Jews, he would have had no notarity. He needed them around so that he could feel superior.

Barry was merely expressing his opinion.

[Nauseous]

Pukey don't be so niave in associating Nazism with germany.It may have started there but it is well alive and kicking in many countries now.Even your own, so Reiz has every right in saying someone is behaving in a Nazi fashion.Here's a little tip bit from the American Nazi Party.


I take Nazi as being a member of Hitler's party. All too often is the word thrown around and glorified... especially here.

And to confuse Nazi with bigot is a little naive on your part. In my opinion, Nazi is not a synonym for bigot or racist.

And you can't call Barry a bigot because he wasn't hating on someone's race.

[unlimited-time]

Once again Pukey shows off her IQ.

[Reizvolles]

Barfy, bigotry isn't just about racism.

big·ot
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

[ucicare]

Barfy, bigotry isn't just about racism.

big·ot
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

"One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics"
Is there a person in this forum who doesn't fit this description? We all are partial to our own identity. There is nothing wrong with that. I would be worried about a person that had no strong ties to his/her group/identity.
Bigotry arises, not from affiliation, but from intolerance. Failing to recognise that people are different, and have a right to be different, is bigotry.

"....intolerant of those who differ."
What if the person is a conservative, heterosexual, fundamentalist Christian American? How tolerate is everyone of that person? My experience has been that tolerance is a one way street. The "enlightened ones" demand tolerance from everyone, but they do not return it.


Labels are narrow and are poor ways to define people. We are all guilty of using them, but it still a poor way to do communicate.


Barry





The problem is that many people confuse acceptance with tolerance. I can be tolerant of someone or something without accepting what they believe or being a participant in their lifestyle.

[Nauseous]

Barfy, bigotry isn't just about racism.

big·ot
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Very nice. Now go look up Nazi.

Here. I'll do it for you.

Definitions of nazi on the Web:

a German member of Adolf Hitler's political party
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


relating to or consistent with or typical of the ideology and practice of Nazism or the Nazis; "the total Nazi crime"; "the Nazi interpretation of history"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


national socialist: relating to a form of socialism; "the national socialist party came to power in 1933"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

A Nazi is a very specific type of bigot. It's not the same thing as a bigot because a bigot covers a lot of hate.

And this isn't the first time in this forum that I have pointed out how much I dislike anything pertaining to nazi. I think I may have even started a thread on it.

[Nauseous]

You can't call anyone that's hating on someone/something a nazi... you can't very well call someone who hates white anglo saxon protestants nazis now can you?

[ucicare]

Hey Reiv, now that it is pretty clear that I am not a Nazi, can we peacefully coexist? Friendship may be a stretch, but with a little tolerance from both of us.....

Barry

[Nauseous]

Why do you feel the need to get along with everyone?

[smiles]

why do you flick your light on and off five times before you sleep?

[Nauseous]

I haven't done that in probably 5 years so ask something relevant.

[ucicare]

Why do you feel the need to get along with everyone?

I don't have a need to get along with everyone, but it is more pleasant when people can debate with a measure of civility.

Barry

[smiles]

I haven't done that in probably 5 years so ask something relevant.

the relevance still lies therein.... i was merely trying to say that he can no more help being nice then you could your compulsion... it's who he is

[Reizvolles]

And I am an over-opinionated nazi bitch. Get over it!!

[ucicare]

And I am an over-opinionated nazi bitch. Get over it!!

I can tolerate that. Honesty is a virtue.

Barry

[Nursey]

I've been having too much long overdue fun to join in over the past week. Here is my sprawling jumbled attempt to cover the main points in the two most active threads lately, this one and the 'Can't someone stop them?' thread. (Though this has become more about how people respond to posts than the post itself. I will deal with the original subject again later as i will need to start a few different threads to enable a fuller perspective of the subject matter)
Also, since yesterday I've been having isp problems and can only come on briefly til it's sorted out.
Reizvolles:
And thank you for making a valid argument on the original post. That's what Cold Sober is all about.

If you want to critisize other countries or specific people, that belongs in the freedom of speach thread. And that goes for everyone. I know I am guilty of it too. I think Fugly wants to keep this a proverbial serene thread with constructive critisism; not slagging off at each other, or other countries ect.
I don't think there's anything there anyone could argue with...yet...

Nasuseous:
Oh, okay... then I guess Fugly would have to undertake the arduous task of moving the majority of Nursey's threads over to the Freedom of Speech Forum.
Are you suggesting i'm 'polluting' this forum with posts that resort to petty personal attacks {eg. posts like your purely malicious personal dig at Reizvolles i.e the 'Karen Carpenter' comment } which have no place in a forum intended for intellectual discourse? And no, i'm not talking about the occasional bit of harmless humour, but genuine attempts to defamate people's characters like Barry has done with me for openly, honestly airing views in a forum whose purpose is to do just that?

Nauseous:
Whatever. The threads belong here as well as everyone's opinions. In case you haven't noticed, opinions are like assholes and as long as you're surrounded by people, you're surrounded by assholes.... I mean, opinons...
Exactly, which is why ucicare has no right to attack me personally just because my 'asshole' is different to his. He was basically implying that my posts have no place in this forum, because he doesn't want to see views which challenge his own. If he had said 'i can't believe that, here is why' , that would have been perfectly acceptable to myself and the others who objected to his response, because that would have been "Barry merely expressing his opinion", as you claim his personal attack on my character equated to.
ucicare:
This whole post is just more evidence of Nursey's delusions and hair splitting diatribes against the US. I once believed that Nursey was just a brilliant but misguided intellectual from the UK. I now see that she is a brilliant but misguided lunatic from a country that has no clue about the morals, values, and backbone of America. I for one, am tired of the conspiracies and anti-American rhetoric. It is not humorous any more. America is bigger than it's government. It is made up of people. People who by and large are moral, decent, compassionate, caring, ethical, kind, generous, tolerant and intelligent. I am tired of the stereotypes, and the ARROGANCE of people who know nothing of this country, yet stand afar off and take shots at her. I wouldn't trade my citizenship for a fortune if it meant I had to live in any other country on earth.

Post like the one that started this thread serve no purpose other that to waste bandwidth.

Nauseous:
To be honest, I wasn't interested enough to read the articles in their entirety. As soon as I realized where it was going, my brain turned into that of a beloved American cartoon character (Butthead) and all I saw were words.
Well if you want to go through life without investigating possibilities that challenge your present view of reality, that's up to you. Just don't expect your opinions on the subject to be considered of much value if you aren't even willing to entertain alternative viewpoints if only for the purpose of 'Devil's Advocate'. Outrightly ruling things out without giving them a fair chance is called 'prejudice'.

Nauseous:
"The world looks to America because we are the beautiful."

Yeah, with all those silicone breasts, collagen puffed lips, frozen botoxed deathmasks and strange permashocked grimaces, you certainly catch the rest of the world's eyes. ;)
Nauseous:
I'm not going to agree with everything written about the US and hang my head in shame to be an American. I feel like that's what you want us to do.
That's a bit of a strange way to take it. If you support what the criminals who have seized control of America are doing to the planet and its people (including what they are doing to America), hang your head in shame, if you don't - stand proud. Being American is not the issue, what you believe in is.Schmed put it well. I consider myself a member of the human race first and foremost, and my home is this planet.. Didn't you see this post of mine?

Nursey:
The American people are as much a victim of their (unelected) government as the rest of the world is, only not too many of them realise it...yet.

There are a great many very patriotic American's who are in total agreement with my views. Haven't you studied the 'Patriot Acts' I & II yet?

Nauseous:
Quit making America the fucking center of Cold Sober. Aren't our egos big enough? Isn't there plenty of other depressing and shitty things to discuss?
It is your America's actions which makes itself the centre stage of any current affairs discussions at this juncture we are presently experiencing.
ucicare:
The problem with many of the people making comments about America (in this forum) is that they simply hate America.
No Barry, that doesn't describe me although it would make it far easier for you (and anyone influenced by you) to just outrightly dismiss me if you were to portray me like that. I don't dislike anything for no good reason, life is too precious and short to waste on senseless hatred. I dislike what America has been doing, because it is in the hands of a corrupt bunch of criminals who care as much for the American public and their soldiers as they care about innocent Iraqis. And yes, America is more than just its politicians when the politicians are answerable to the people, but since GWBush was installed as the President, things have changed - most significantly. Two stolen elections later, and you still think the politicians are doing your bidding?
Unlimited Time:
I just dislike blind faith and i think what got my back up was his attack on a couple of members of the forums who were airing their views the same way he does.Have an argument/discussio. Don't throw a hissy fit coz they aren't coming round to your way of thinking.
Nauseous:
And you were jumping on the bandwagon and you know it.
Unlimited Time:
i write what i think and don't really care if people agree or disagree, unlike yourself who seems to need people to love them.

I wouldn't have called UT and Reizvolles 'my equals' if i thought they were just jumping on a bandwagon, and hollowly repeating a line, because I certainly do not. The last thing i need is pseuds to promote my cause...i have and will stand alone in my views if need be, i am secure enough in my beliefs to do so without any need to surround myself with 'yes-men' who would not bolster my position...they would undermine it. I was impressed to see them both making a stand for what they believe in, and they did so with the sort of passion and conviction that comes from the heart. And the stance they took is the less popular one...the one that is more likely to invoke 'mob wrath', and so takes greater courage and independence of thought. You don't get the type of venemous derogatory comments made about you for simply airing views which differ from mine that you get for disagreeing with those who follow the government approved corporate media on things such as Barry, or 'ianbo', for example. This is why they are correct when they refer to him and his ilk as bigots.
ucicare:
I am just tired of candy coating all my replys. No body else does it. Go back and read the reception I received from my first post ever if you thing I am kidding.
Are you referring to my post...i.e. the civilised disourse which still fell within the boundaries of legitimate rational debate?
ucicare:
As a citizen, taxpayer, and registered voter in America, I have one question for you Nursey - who elected you to "expose" the corrupt government of America?
Who elected YOU to police the world wide web, telling citizens of the world what they can and cannot say about one of the world's countrys? I am human and seeing as this is a situation of such immense magnitude, affecting every single human on the planet, i have every right...and duty to provide the rest of the human race - my family - with whatever i sincerely believe to be in its best interests.

ucicare:
As far as I am concerned, you are just another terrorist. You weapon or choice is a keyboard. You post conspiracy therories that are based in hysteria and paranoia, and you hide behind a mask of pseudo intellectualism and anonymity.
You call me a 'terrorist' and yet it is me who is hysterical and paranoid? Well since you have chosen to invalidate my honest, well thought out, heartfelt opinions on things by attempting to convince people here that i am nothing more than a malicious nutcase with ulterior ('terrorist') motives , maybe i should invalidate any of your opinions by accusing you of being a propagandist working for the U.S government to spread disinformation throughout the web when you start replicating such classic Orwellian 'neocononsense' smear tactics like that. It's extremely arrogant - not to mention uncivilised - to accuse someone of being a malicious, deviant villain simply because their opinion counters yours.

(Since i wrote that, ucicare has posted again, with this ironic comment...)
ucicare:


I don't have a need to get along with everyone, but it is more pleasant when people can debate with a measure of civility.


Ucicare:
I am an American, and the Government looks very different from this side of the pond.

Spend a week in the USA, and you will see it differently too. In the mean time, shut the hell up. You offend the people of this Democracy with your delusional BS.

If those (treasonous, corrupt, neocons) who have seized control of the U.S had their way, the whole world would see it differently...whether they liked it or not. The U.S. now controls the media in Iraq, and now Iraqis have the pleasure of watching Oprah Winfrey and some other American rot as well as having their Call to Prayer taken off the air, and totally bias news coverage which does not represent the vast majority of Iraqi's opinions on things. Yeah, some democracy!

[ucicare]

First Nursey says -
"It's extremely arrogant - not to mention uncivilised - to accuse someone of being a malicious, deviant villain simply because their opinion counters yours."

Then Nursey cries about the , "... genuine attempts to defamate people's characters like Barry has done with me."

Then Nursey calls the leaders of this country -

"a corrupt bunch of criminals" "who care as much for the American public and their soldiers as they care about innocent Iraqis."

"(treasonous, corrupt, neocons) who have seized control of the U.S"

"the criminals who have seized control of America"

Could someone run a spell check on HYPOCRITICAL please?


I have no problem with someone expressing their opinions or concerns. What I do have a problem with is people who lead defamatory and malicious attacks against the elected leaders of my country.

Take your own advice Nursey. Blast what they do all you want. But calling my President a "criminal" is intolerable and wrong.

Barry

[Schmed]

How about this, he's(Bush) a lying, murdering crook. Plain and simple, honest and true. America is beatutiful, and he's a disgrace against everyhitng our nation was founded on.

[Schmed]

And every person on this planet has a right to speak out against Bush's crimes against it.

[ucicare]

And every person on this planet has a right to speak out against Bush's crimes against it.

I agree totally. Scream away about policy, procedure, injustice, wrongs, crimes, heresies, and atrocities. I'll fight for the right of people to do that. I'll even chip in to buy the paint that goes on the protest banners.
What bothers me greatly is labeling someone or some group "criminals" when they have been tried and convicted of nothing. The court of public opinion may have the power to indict with their accusations, but it not impartial enough to convict. I hope everyone can see the difference.


Barry

[Nursey]

And every person on this planet has a right to speak out against Bush's crimes against it.

I agree totally. Scream away about policy, procedure, injustice, wrongs, crimes, heresies, and atrocities. I'll fight for the right of people to do that. I'll even chip in to buy the paint that goes on the protest banners.
What bothers me greatly is labeling someone or some group "criminals" when they have been tried and convicted of nothing. The court of public opinion may have the power to indict with their accusations, but it not impartial enough to convict. I hope everyone can see the difference.


Barry
They lied to start a war. They trampled roughshod over the United Nations and International Law. They have committed warcrimes. They have stolen two elctions. And they are committing treason towards the United States, destroying the American Constitution...the very foundations of the country you profess to love so dearly. I call that criminal.

[ucicare]

They lied to start a war. They trampled roughshod over the United Nations and International Law. They have committed warcrimes. They have stolen two elctions. And they are committing treason towards the United States, destroying the American Constitution...the very foundations of the country you profess to love so dearly. I call that criminal.


1. Make sure that you know that I actual like you, I just am pissed off about some of the off the wall things you post.

2. The rant above pisses me off. You have no right to state the above as facts. If that is your opinion, hey, more power to you. I'll still say you are wrong, but I'll defend your right to have that opinion. You are stating the above as a God honest fact. I totally challenge the validity of the above statements.

3. Your posting of ridiculous things undermines the credibility of everything else you say. How could you possibly even hint that the US Government caused that horrible earthquake and Tsunami? Don't you realize that such an act would be the great single act of terrorism in the history of the world?
And then you say that the US Government is controlling the wind waves and thoughts of people with radio waves. Come on! You say crap like that, and then wonder why I reject your possibly valid accusations.


Just try to be rational and consistent in your posts. I don't agree with Schmed's opinion above, but at least he was not bizarre in what he says. He could be right. The stuff you have posted lately has no possibility of being accurate. It would be hysterical if it was not so serious.

Barry

[smiles]

actually barry when she states that the US violated international law as well as it's own (the detainees at Guantanamo Bay) and not to mention the accusation of warcrimes are both highly based on facts, a simple example of which being their continued use of depleted uranium shells which over the last decade in Iraq have caused cancer rates to go up 1000% - that's illegal, cluster bombs - illegal Abu Gharib prison scandal - illegal i've listed for you three things your own governement scarcely denies so i don;t see why you should have trouble accepting them

[ucicare]

actually barry when she states that the US violated international law as well as it's own (the detainees at Guantanamo Bay) and not to mention the accusation of warcrimes are both highly based on facts, a simple example of which being their continued use of depleted uranium shells which over the last decade in Iraq have caused cancer rates to go up 1000% - that's illegal, cluster bombs - illegal Abu Gharib prison scandal - illegal i've listed for you three things your own governement scarcely denies so i don;t see why you should have trouble accepting them


Aren't people being prosecuted for the war crimes and the prison scandal?
Didn't the government admit error? How does that make the Government so deceitful and corrupt?

Barry

[Nursey]

ucicare:
What bothers me greatly is labeling someone or some group "criminals" when they have been tried and convicted of nothing. The court of public opinion may have the power to indict with their accusations, but it not impartial enough to convict. I hope everyone can see the difference.

It may bother you, but it STILL 'falls within the bounds of legitimate rational debate'. Angrily attempting to demonise and silence me for having different opinions does not. I hope everyone can see the difference...

ucicare:
2. The rant above pisses me off. You have no right to state the above as facts. If that is your opinion, hey, more power to you. I'll still say you are wrong, but I'll defend your right to have that opinion. You are stating the above as a God honest fact. I totally challenge the validity of the above statements.
Yes it is my opinion, and i could back it up with an abundance of undisputed facts which would suggest as much, and some of it ('trampling roughshod over the U.N. and International Law', 'committing warcrimes', for example) are undisputable facts.
As for the way i presented the post, (minimally) :
Also, since yesterday I've been having isp problems and can only come on briefly til it's sorted out.
I saw your reply and wanted to mention those points, but due to the large phonebill i'm currently running up made it as brief as possible (i have disconnected to type this reply).
ucicare:
Your posting of ridiculous things undermines the credibility of everything else you say. How could you possibly even hint that the US Government caused that horrible earthquake and Tsunami? Don't you realize that such an act would be the great single act of terrorism in the history of the world?
And then you say that the US Government is controlling the wind waves and thoughts of people with radio waves. Come on! You say crap like that, and then wonder why I reject your possibly valid accusations.
There is absolutely no harm in investigating unconventional ground. And i make it clear that i am not claiming to stand on what i consider solid ground when i present such hypothesis'. Just because i'm open minded and unafraid to explore a large number of possibilities (that at first glance might seem very far fetched to someone who hasn't 'thought outside the bubble' to much degree, but when viewed in the context of certain undisputed and often quite incredible facts that aren't widely known to the public, don't seem quite so ludicrous after all) doesn't mean all my information is based on such shakey premises.
I encourage everyone to think for themselves, and not be afraid to question everything we so automatically take for granted. Don't ever take as truth anything you can't properly grasp for yourself, but remember - an inquisitive mind that is not bound by convention is the kind that makes the most inspirational discoveries. Keep your head in the stars and your feet on the ground.
The stuff you have posted lately has no possibility of being accurate.
Well, when you don't even acknowldge the factual parts of my hypothesis' - the bits which can't be disputed as fact, then no wonder the parts i am only alluding to completely escape your understanding. You're frequently willing to argue black is white...just have a look at the 'Israel Spies on America' thread for an example of that.
And for someone who quotes from the bible as if it is fact, don't you think you are being a little....inconsistant?

[smiles]

in THAT specific instance they admitted fault, regardless it's still a war crime among many many others, thus making nurseys statement in fact valid, do i dare mention Guantanamo Bay where prisoners are mysteriously dying in US custody (no trials no lawyers no shred of the justice system, arbitrary confinement is a privilege invoked only by totalitarian governments), wonder what kind of illegal fun the CIA is having over there

I was not using that example to prove deceit and corruption but to fortify Nursey’s post which you dismissed as a blanket statement that had no material backing

barry you seem to be focusing on more broad accusations like deceit and corruption, all governments are corrupt because no person is infallible, in a previous post you yourself had listed the number of arrested officials and politicians, this by itself proves that your own government, like ALL the others is indeed corrupt, I don’t think that anyone would disagree with me when I say that if any other nation had the power and might the US posses that they too would be doing similar things, that being said it still does not validate their actions…. People around the world get more frustrated when they see that the American public is turning a blind eye to what is being done in their name, which many misconstrue as the American public SUPPORTING everything that is being paid for by their sweat, you get the gist of it from CNN but you don’t see the whole picture and if you did dear barry I GUARANTEE you wouldn’t be waving that flag so high, this is why the AMERICAN people and not just AMERICAN POLICY get trodden on in the international community

[Nauseous]

Oh, sweet Jesus. The world is coming to an end and I'm sitting here typing in "cold drama".

I'm just going to give my closing arguments and that's it. I'm not trying to "fob" anyone off.

I had no choice where I was born. I have only experienced "American" culture first hand, so I can't really 100% totally see this country objectively. None of us can. We were born with blinders. All of us are.

Granted, we are all human, but we don't always act like the same species. I think our views and personality are 40% biological and 60% environmental.

I think our govenment is corrupted, but not to the degree that has been expressed here. Even if I agreed with everything that has been written, there isn't a damn thing I could do about it anyway other than get fired up. I guess I could do something radical and get the fucking book thrown at me because they DO NOT tolerate resistance.

I feel like I work for this nation. Because I do have a 'leader' and the government does provide... not for me because I'm not on welfare, but they do provide for the people. Basically, I work for free. (but god bless Bill Clinton for FMLA, it has saved my ass from the firing line twice)

And because I live here, I choose to have some pride about it. I can't imagine living somewhere else, because all in all, I like it here.

Maybe it's this "pride" that makes me look at my country through rose-colored glasses, but I feel a lot of what has been written here isn't meant to make us think, but to make America look bad.

And the "the world looks to America because we are the beautiful" was sarcasm... it was taken from "To the Mosquitoes" by Janes Addiction.

Done

[Nauseous]

the relevance still lies therein.... i was merely trying to say that he can no more help being nice then you could your compulsion... it's who he is

Well, it would have been effective had you have stated something more accurate.

[pimpchichi]

they DO NOT tolerate resistance.

guess the 2nd amendment is just a relic of a bygone age for men with small cocks

[ucicare]

they DO NOT tolerate resistance.

guess the 2nd amendment is just a relic of a bygone age for men with small cocks

I am curious of something PD. How many people do you know in your country that own a gun?

Barry

[Nursey]

Nauseous, you're viewing this in awfully simplistic terms. There are more than the two choices you stated - extremes of black and white - one being to hang your head in shame, the other being to form a revolutionary armed resistance or something. What about the whole spectrum of possibilities that lies in between those poles? What about at least just informing yourself as best you can, so that you are not blindly supporting things which on closer analysis, you might discover actually go against your own beliefs and all you hold dear? Anyway, i just came online to post this...
Americans are closing their eyes and letting a new form of fascism get rolling
(http://www.citizen-times.com/cache/article/editorial/73296.shtml?refresh=1)



Before we tune in to the second inauguration of President George Bush, perhaps you should read this. When we ignore history, we are condemned to repeat it. Oh, not here in the good ol U.S.A., you say. Never here, the land of the free and home of the brave, the bastion of democracy for the free world. Well, open your eyes, America. We may not relive the human catastrophe of the Holocaust on our own soil, but were learning how to borrow from what helped it start. Billboards in Florida extol George Bush as Our Leader, placed by the conservative media conglomerate Clear Channel, owner/operator of scores of TV, radio and other news media across the country. German for leader is Fuehrer. Our conservative government is railroading a dismantling of social programs under the guise of economic reform, while waving the banners of domestic safety initiatives as the best form of security for our nation. Unfortunately, security is not closed borders, guns on every corner and limited civil rights. We cant be secure if our roads, bridges and schools are crumbling; if our water, air and food are dirty; if people arent healthy because they cant pay to see their doctors; and if we must remain in the workforce until were 70-plus years old with an average lifespan of mid- to high 70s, what kind of American Dream retirement is that? And now we have the Orwellian Patriot Act and the just passed 563-page Intelligence Reform Bill (Have you read it? You authorized your conservative elected officials to vote for it. ...) to shield us from harms way and still no responsible economic solutions, no new jobs, no health insurance for all Americans. We did get, however, a conservative invasion of our schools to remind us of the apocalyptic future we have in store, as the Revelations-reading religious right proclaims at every turn, while generals and clergy boast that our presidents re-election was through divine intervention (Gen. William Boykin and Rev. Pat Robertson). As Hitler descended from the clouds in the Leni Riefenstahl propaganda film Triumph of the Will. ... Lets top if off with a Cornell University poll just released and reported by the Associated Press, warning that a near majority of citizens favor restricting the civil liberties of Muslim-Americans. Whats next, will they have to wear a red crescent on their clothes like Jews wore their Stars of David during the Third Reich? I know many of you reading this will think that this is merely the alarmist ranting of a disgruntled liberal. But think again. When we close our eyes to little things that happen around us, suddenly those small steps along a dangerous path take us far away from where we started. We are nearing the precipice. Our nation is evolving into something very dangerous, and we have a responsibility to stop it. Be afraid of those who follow these principles blindly, of those who profess their allegiance to our leader undyingly. Those who accuse my words of being anti-American and anti-Bush have, regrettably, succumbed to the mass hysteria being created by a new American fascism and will be held accountable as accomplices, just as many aging Germans bear their guilt-by-silence still to this day.

Richard Nantelle III holds degrees in German studies from UNC-Chapel Hill and Ohio State University. He lives in Asheville.

[Nursey]

Here's my sprawling reply to Jefe.

"Nursey, that was all very interesting but I hope you'll agree, the more outrageous a story or news item is, the harder it is for most people to take it at face value and assume it's true, especially of the only source for the information is Rense or some other conspiracy theorist site."

Yeah i know, but you aren't going to get an article like that in any mainstream news. And any independant site that contradicts the official version of events is going to be considered a conspiracy site (even if they don't go near the wilder sounding stuff like Rense does), so it's a catch-22.

"Please don’t be offended but I doubt that most of the information your post is accurate. Can you back it up with confirmation from a more credible source?"

No offence taken, you're entitled to your opinion. What do you consider a 'credible source'? I know Barry there won't believe anything i could show you unless it came straight from the mouths of the authoritative droids that front his favourite government propaganda outlets, which to me have absolutely no credibility.
But i'll do my best. I've provided info from several sites, some 'straightlaced', some a bit conspiratorial, just to give a broader perspective, and here's a link to a copy of the declassified information that often gets referred to:

NSSM 200: IMPLICATIONS OF WORLDWIDE POPULATION GROWTH FOR U.S. SECURITY AND OVERSEAS INTERESTS December 10, 1974 CLASSIFIED BY Harry C. Blaney, III SUBJECT TO GENERAL DECLASSIFICATION SCHEDULE OF EXECUTIVE ORDER 11652 AUTOMATICALLY DOWN- GRADED AT TWO YEAR INTERVALS AND DECLASSIFIED ON DECEMBER 31, 1980. (http://www.africa2000.com/SNDX/nssm200all.html)
What is NSSM 200? (http://www.kzpg.com/Lib/Pages/Books/NSSM-200/00-WHAT.html)
NSSM 200 is White House shorthand for National Security Study Memorandum. NSSM 200 was the definitive interagency study of world population growth and its implications for United States global security, requested by President Nixon in 1974. The study was undertaken by the National Security Council, the CIA, the Defense, Agriculture and State Departments, and the Agency for International Development. Among its conclusions: "World population growth is widely recognized within the Government as a current danger of the highest magnitude calling for urgent measures.... There is a major risk of severe damage [from continued rapid population growth] to world economic, political, and ecological systems and, as these systems begin to fail, to our humanitarian values."

Human Life International (HLI) to Expose Kissinger-United Nations’ Population Control Program Used to Control Developing Nations & Their Natural Resources (http://www.hli.org/kissinger2.html)
"HLI officials and leaders from several of the 13 targeted nations will expose how National Security Study Memorandum 200—primarily authored by then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger—systematically instituted population control programs in the name of national security to gain unimpeded access to these countries’ natural resources. The plan called for collusion among the U.S. government, the United Nations and non-governmental organizations like International Planned Parenthood Federation.
According to NSSM-200: “Throughout the implementation of the [population control] process, we have to make sure to hide our tracks and disguise our programs as altruistic . . . hiding the fact that we want access to their natural resources.”
“Americans will be shocked to learn how billions of their tax dollars have been wasted on programs specifically intended to violate the most basic human rights,” said Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, president of HLI. “This Friday marks the 30th anniversary of NSSM-200 and there can be no mistaking the devastation and havoc it has wreaked upon these unsuspecting nations.”

"This article appeared as part of a feature in the December 8, 1995 issue of Executive Intelligence Review, and was circuclated extensively by the Schiller Insitute Food for Peace Movement. It is reprinted here as part of the package:"Who Is Responsible for the World Food Shortage?" (http://www.schillerinstitute.org/food_for_peace/kiss_nssm_jb_1995.html#link)

Kissinger's 1974 Plan for Food Control Genocide
by Joseph Brewda Dec. 8, 1995 (http://www.schillerinstitute.org/food_for_peace/kiss_nssm_jb_1995.html)


John D. Rockefeller 3rd (Disinfopedia) (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=John_D._Rockefeller_3rd)
"The young Rockefeller also developed his own interests. Through his work as a member of the board of directors of the Bureau of Social Hygiene (to which he was appointed in 1928), Rockefeller began a lifelong commitment to the issues of population control and birth control

"With the founding of the Population Council in 1952, Rockefeller hoped to bring the problem of overpopulation to global attention. His travels throughout Asia convinced him that population growth had to be checked if underdeveloped countries were to achieve political stability. In 1970, President Richard M. Nixon appointed Rockefeller to the chairmanship of the Commission on Population Growth and the American Future
'Social Hygiene'...nice fascistic sounding name! "The German term Rassenhygiene or race hygiene was broader than the word eugenics..." (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Eugenics)

Club of Rome (http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/clubofrome.htm)

But to add a little fuel to your fire, do you think that, if population reduction is a priority of the US government’s current administration, that might explain the 3 day delay in any kind of a response to the recent tragedy in Asia? Seems to me that if population reduction is something in which they’re interested, that would have been the perfect move.
What does this suggest?
Nobel winner supported biological warfare as form of population control (http://www.theinterim.com/2002/april/02nobelwinner.html)
Third World de-population has been U.S. strategic policy since '74
Top-secret files recently declassified from the National Archives of Australia, despite government opposition, has revealed that one of the fathers of modern biotechnology and genetic engineering advocated using biological weapons against Indonesia and other "overpopulated" countries of South-East Asia. Australia's The Age reports that world-famous microbiologist Sir Macfarlane Burnet recommended in a secret report for the Australian Defence Department in 1947 that biological and chemical weapons should be developed to target food crops and spread infectious diseases.
..................
Outlining the benefits of the population elimination program, Macfarlane said, "Its use has the tremendous advantage of not destroying the enemy's industrial potential, which can then be taken over intact." While the idea of depopulation by chemical means for strategic purposes may seem outrageous, other strategic de-population policies are currently being practised throughout the world under the cover of population control.
The official policy of the U.S. regarding population control in foreign policy is spelled out in U.S. National Security Study Memorandum 200 (NSSM 200), written by Henry Kissinger. NSSM 200, subtitled "Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests," warned that increasing populations in developing countries threatened U.S. strategic, economic, and military interests. It suggested that competition from new world powers would rise when developing nations had sufficient populations to utilize their national resources to their full potential.


"Another thing to consider is, how would such a policy survive thirty years and how many different administrations. Who was president in 1974? Nixon?"
If anyone really believes that the surface of politics that is presented to the public is the full story, they are sadly deluded. What we get to see is only the tip of the iceberg.

[ucicare]

I know Barry there won't believe anything i could show you unless it came straight from the mouths of the authoritative droids that front his favourite government propaganda outlets, which to me have absolutely no credibility.

One of the best and most credible sources of information, and presumably the least biased, is articles and research done by professors at accredited colleges. I do not restrict this to just American Universities. Most of these professors have to publish to survive, and they are under the scrutiny of the peers to be accurate.

Do not assume that these professors are going to hide anything. Many, if not most, are very bright and very liberal. Many, especially in other countries, loathe the US. The system of peer accountability makes material published by professors a little higher quality than things published without.

I can accept scholarly work that criticizes America. I just have problems with wild speculations and things that can't be authenticated.

Missed you lately. Can I send a donation through paypal to help with the phone bill? (or would that be aiding and abetting the enemy?)

Barry

[Nursey]

Missed you lately. Can I send a donation through paypal to help with the phone bill? (or would that be aiding and abetting the enemy?)

Barry
Ughh...i don't think it would be *appropriate* for you to ~slip a wad~ into my !PP accunt!, but thanks all the same!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/uhoh2.gif

[FagARoni]

From Nurzi's post: "Quote:

John D. Rockefeller 3rd (Disinfopedia)
"The young Rockefeller also developed his own interests. Through his work as a member of the board of directors of the Bureau of Social Hygiene (to which he was appointed in 1928), Rockefeller began a lifelong commitment to the issues of population control and birth control

"With the founding of the Population Council in 1952, Rockefeller hoped to bring the problem of overpopulation to global attention. His travels throughout Asia convinced him that population growth had to be checked if underdeveloped countries were to achieve political stability. In 1970, President Richard M. Nixon appointed Rockefeller to the chairmanship of the Commission on Population Growth and the American Future

'Social Hygiene'...nice fascistic sounding name! "The German term Rassenhygiene or race hygiene was broader than the word eugenics..."

Club of Rome

But to add a little fuel to your fire, do you think that, if population reduction is a priority of the US government’s current administration, that might explain the 3 day delay in any kind of a response to the recent tragedy in Asia? Seems to me that if population reduction is something in which they’re interested, that would have been the perfect move.
What does this suggest? "

So who the fuck cares? There are too many people in the world right now. Too much competition for jobs and resources. If some cabal is concocting a remedy, I don't care. Why should you, Nurzi. Your posts and links suggest there is nothing to be done about the master plan by the powerful Illuminati or Club of Rome anyway.

CULL the fucken herd.