POLICE STATE

[Nursey]

It Can't Happen Here (http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst122004.htm)


December 20, 2004


In 2002 I asked my House colleagues a rhetorical question with regard to the onslaught of government growth in the post-September 11th era: Is America becoming a police state?

The question is no longer rhetorical. We are not yet living in a total police state, but it is fast approaching. The seeds of future tyranny have been sown, and many of our basic protections against government have been undermined. The atmosphere since 2001 has permitted Congress to create whole new departments and agencies that purport to make us safer- always at the expense of our liberty. But security and liberty go hand-in-hand. Members of Congress, like too many Americans, don’t understand that a society with no constraints on its government cannot be secure. History proves that societies crumble when their governments become more powerful than the people and private institutions.

Unfortunately, the new intelligence bill passed by Congress two weeks ago moves us closer to an encroaching police state by imposing the precursor to a full-fledged national ID card. Within two years, every American will need a “conforming” ID to deal with any federal agency-- including TSA at the airport.

Undoubtedly many Americans and members of Congress don’t believe America is becoming a police state, which is reasonable enough. They associate the phrase with highly visible symbols of authoritarianism like military patrols, martial law, and summary executions. But we ought to be concerned that we have laid the foundation for tyranny by making the public more docile, more accustomed to government bullying, and more accepting of arbitrary authority- all in the name of security. Our love for liberty above all has been so diminished that we tolerate intrusions into our privacy that would have been abhorred just a few years ago. We tolerate inconveniences and infringements upon our liberties in a manner that reflects poorly on our great national character of rugged individualism. American history, at least in part, is a history of people who don’t like being told what to do. Yet we are increasingly empowering the federal government and its agents to run our lives.

Terror, fear, and crises like 9-11 are used to achieve complacency and obedience, especially when citizens are deluded into believing they are still a free people. The loss of liberty, we are assured, will be minimal, short-lived, and necessary. Many citizens believe that once the war on terror is over, restrictions on their liberties will be reversed. But this war is undeclared and open-ended, with no precise enemy and no expressly stated final goal. Terrorism will never be eradicated completely; does this mean future presidents will assert extraordinary war powers indefinitely?

Washington DC provides a vivid illustration of what our future might look like. Visitors to Capitol Hill encounter police barricades, metal detectors, paramilitary officers carrying fully automatic rifles, police dogs, ID checks, and vehicle stops. The people are totally disarmed; only the police and criminals have guns. Surveillance cameras are everywhere, monitoring street activity, subway travel, parks, and federal buildings. There's not much evidence of an open society in Washington, DC, yet most folks do not complain-- anything goes if it's for government-provided safety and security.

After all, proponents argue, the government is doing all this to catch the bad guys. If you don’t have anything to hide, they ask, what are you so afraid of? The answer is that I’m afraid of losing the last vestiges of privacy that a free society should hold dear. I’m afraid of creating a society where the burden is on citizens to prove their innocence, rather than on government to prove wrongdoing. Most of all, I’m afraid of living in a society where a subservient populace surrenders its liberties to an all-powerful government.

It may be true that average Americans do not feel intimidated by the encroachment of the police state. Americans remain tolerant of what they see as mere nuisances because they have been deluded into believing total government supervision is necessary and helpful, and because they still enjoy a high level of material comfort. That tolerance may wane, however, as our standard of living falls due to spiraling debt, endless deficit spending at home and abroad, a declining fiat dollar, inflation, higher interest rates, and failing entitlement programs. At that point attitudes toward omnipotent government may change, but the trend toward authoritarianism will be difficult to reverse.

Those who believe a police state can't happen here are poor students of history. Every government, democratic or not, is capable of tyranny. We must understand this if we hope to remain a free people.

[ucicare]

True Story - A long time ago a political prison was sentenced to death. They tried to boil him oil, but he climbed out of the pot. He was horribly burned, but he lived. This freaked everybody out so bad they said he was demon possessed, protected by Satan, etc, so they sent him to a penal colony. The guy had delusions and hallucination afterwards (predictable) and everybody was afraid of him and generally left him the heck alone. He wrote all the hallucinations down, and they were published years later. Among them he said this -

1. A day would come when an system of individual identification would be required for everyone in the civilized world. An implant or a marker of some kind would be placed in the hand, and without this identifier no one would be able to buy any thing or sell anything or move about freely.

2. He predicted that Israel would be a mighty nation, but would be completely secular. He said the Jewish temple would be destroyed and an Islamic temple would replace it. He predicated wars over this piece of real estate.

3. He predicted that Europe would adopt a common currency, and that a universal system of weights and measures would be put in place.

4. He predicted that Iraq would be a military power, and that it would be invaded with weapons that would render parts of it uninhabitable due to radiation.

5. He also said that the World would be deceived into widespread drug abuse, and that the main drug suppliers would be government leaders.

6. He said that the whole world would see and hear things at the same time, and that a United Government would eventually control the world.

interesting thing, he said all of this before electricity was discovered. There was no Iraq, Israel was not a nation, and TV was 2000 years in the future.

But I think he was mad man.

Barry

[Nursey]

But how do your political views figure in all this, Barry? After all, you're the one who thinks it's alright for a democratically appointed government to completely deceive it's populace regarding even when it's the populace who are financing and providing the manpower for the government's ventures, (Information Dominance: The Philosophy of Total Propaganda Control (http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/media/2003/1229propcontrol.htm)), which suggests that you implicitly trust them -no questions asked- and are of the opinion that 'it couldn't happen here'.
A few more relevant links:

America's ministry of Propaganda Exposed : Part 1 (http://www.earthisland.org/project/newsPage2.cfm?newsID=491&pageID=177&subSiteID=44)

Part 2 (http://www.earthisland.org/project/newsPage2.cfm?newsID=492&pageID=177&subSiteID=44)

Part 3 (http://www.earthisland.org/project/newsPage2.cfm?newsID=493&pageID=177&subSiteID=44)

Part 4 (http://www.earthisland.org/project/newsPage2.cfm?newsID=494&pageID=177&subSiteID=44)

"None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope.

We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts.

Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty?

Are we disposed to be the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation?

For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost,I am willing to know the whole truth;to know the worst, and to provide for it."

— Patrick Henry


"“Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice.

“Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”

— Michael Rivero


"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology.”

— Michael Parenti
Political scientist and author of
Inventing Reality: The Politics of News Media (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/mediadeception/InventingReality.html)


“I have the greatest admiration for your propaganda. Propaganda in the West is carried out by experts who have had the best training in the world — in the field of advertising — and have mastered the techniques with exceptional proficiency... Yours are subtle and persuasive; ours are crude and obvious... I think that the fundamental difference between our worlds, with respect to propaganda, is quite simple. You tend to believe yours... and we tend to disbelieve ours.”

— Soviet correspondent
based five years in the U.S.


“The CIA is not now nor has it ever been a central intelligence agency. It is the covert action arm of the President’s foreign policy advisers. In that capacity it overthrows or supports foreign governments while reporting ‘intelligence’ justifying those activities. It shapes its intelligence, even in such critical areas as Soviet nuclear weapons capability, to support presidential policy.

“Disinformation is a large part of its covert action responsibility, and the American people are the primary target of its lies.”

— Ralph McGehee
former CIA intelligence analyst
Deadly Deceits: My 25 Years in the CIA (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/cia-nazis/DeadlyDeceits.html)

[ucicare]

Nursey, you miss my point. I don'y think that the US could become a Police State, I know it is going to become one. It is inevitable and the there is no way to stop it. I simply see that as part of a corrupt plan that has been in place for eons.

Men are corrupt. There is no way that men can ever govern without corruption. The best thing out there is Democracy, and Democracy is also corrupt.

I am not a "bury my head in sand" coward, nor am I a fatalist. I just see a paralell plan to the counter the corrupt one, and I see all the pieces coming together. There has to be a total failure of man's system.

I am not some religious freak. You know that I don't believe that some Savior is going to magically appear one day and whisk us all away to Nirvana, leaving a burning orb where earth used to be.

I do see a system of government coming that is not run by man. I do not claim to know exactly how, but it will be from a source greater than us.

A poem written 2789 years ago -
Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain?
The rulers of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together
against the LORD and against his Anointed One. "Let us break their chains," they say, "and throw off their fetters." The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, "I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill." I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son today I have become your Father. Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter you will dash them to pieces like pottery." Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth.


Barry

[Nursey]

Or maybe you are missing my point. And your own.
I simply see that as part of a corrupt plan that has been in place for eons.
...and yet, your political stance regarding world events tells me you can't see that that 'corrupt plan' and those fulfilling it, entails a deception of the greatest proportions to enslave not just your whole country, but the whole of humanity?

“Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”

— Mark Twain
The Mysterious Stranger

“Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship…Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
— Leading Nazi leader, Hermann Goering, at the Nuremberg Trials before he was sentenced to death


“The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State.”
— Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels


“The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.”
— Adolph Hitler

[ucicare]

Nursey writes -
...and yet, your political stance regarding world events tells me you can't see that that 'corrupt plan' and those fulfilling it, entails a deception of the greatest proportions to enslave not just your whole country, but the whole of humanity?


That is exactly what I see. The prize is "the whole of humanity."
I understand that a "corrupt plan" exists, but I do not believe that the people who are carrying it out are really conscious of it. I believe that a "sinister conspiracy" exists, but I do not believe the men carrying it out are really aware of the master plan. We would be headed the same direction no matter who is leading. I see it as a long standing spiritual battle, with the "dark" forces using men as they see fit. If you remove the man, another simply takes his place.

The Bible states it like this - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."


I'm simply not worried. I know how the story ends.


Barry



[/quote]

[Nursey]

UNITED STATES: Miami police stun-gun children (http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/607/607p18j.htm)

For the second time in a fortnight, the Miami Dade police have admitted that a stun-gun had been used against a child. In the first incident, on October 20, a six-year-old boy holding a shard of glass was stunned with a Taser. Then, on November 10, police used 50,000 volts to immobilise a 12-year-old girl fleeing police after being caught truanting. The police director has defended the new police policy of widely distributing tasers and allowing officers to use them to apprehend someone.


Police stun 75-year-old
(http://www.heraldonline.com/local/story/4124708p-3890580c.html)

The Rock Hill Police Department is investigating why an officer used an electric stun gun on a 75-year-old woman who refused to leave a nursing home where she had gone to visit an ailing friend.
The woman, Margaret Kimbrell, said she suffered bruises on her leg and face after she was knocked to the floor by the force of the weapon, called a Taser.


Police Accused Of Firing Taser At Pregnant Bride (http://www.nbc5.com/unit5investigates/3768716/detail.html)

Fetus' Vital Signs 'Weak' After Incident, According To Lawyers

EVERGREEN PARK, Ill. -- A man and his daughter have filed a lawsuit alleging a couple of Evergreen Park police officers assaulted them with a Taser gun at the woman's backyard wedding reception.

Clarence Phelps, 54, and Romona Madison, 32, filed the federal civil rights lawsuit Tuesday against two officers and the Village of Evergreen Park.

Images: Cops Accused Of Using Taser On Pregnant Bride
Video: Police Accused Of Shocking Bride

According to the lawsuit, a black female officer on Sept. 18 told Phelps outside his home at 9124 S. Francisco Ave. that the police department had received a noise complaint after 11 p.m. and that he should turn down the music at his daughter's wedding reception, NBC5's Renee Ferguson reported.

Phelps, who is also black, said he turned off the music, but the officer did not leave, according to the lawsuit. When Phelps approached the officer to ask why she was still on his premises, she demanded his identification and called for backup, the lawsuit states.

But, according to a statement from the Evergreen Park Police Department, the officer called for backup after Phelps called the officer an expletive.

Another officer arrived and tried to arrest Phelps, who police claim pushed the officer. That's when Phelps was shot with a Taser gun. According to Phelps' attorney, the officer used the stun gun without provocation.

Phelps, who is a part-time state police officer and truck driver, was then taken into custody, Ferguson reported.

In court documents, Madison states she saw what happened to her father, screamed, and asked the officer to stop. The officer allegedly turned the Taser gun toward her and threatened the bride with it, according to the lawsuit.

Madison ran into the home, and one of the officers followed. That officer then allegedly shot Madison with the Taser gun twice in the abdomen, despite being told by witnesses that she was pregnant.

A prong from the stun gun reportedly became lodged in Madison's stomach and had to be removed by paramedics, Ferguson said.

A third officer allegedly held a gun to Madison's head as she was being arrested.

After being released from custody, Madison sought medical care and doctors told her the unborn child's vital signs were weak and that tests would show whether she would lose the baby, according to a news release from the law firm of Richardson, Stasko, Boyd & Mack.

"It is unclear, the condition of the baby, but we hope for the best," said Elliott Richardson, the woman's attorney.

[Nursey]

I was recounting this story i'd seen last year to someone recently, but it sounded so far fetched as i was telling it i had to look it up again just to make sure i hadn't mixed up a fictitious story with real information, as i suspected. Unfortunately, it's not fiction.

Art becomes the next suspect in America's 9/11 paranoia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1236288,00.html)
Friday June 11, 2004
The Guardian


On May 10 Steven Kurtz went to bed a married art professor. On May 11 he woke up a widower. By the afternoon he was under federal investigation for bioterrorism.
What began as a personal tragedy for Mr Kurtz has turned into what many believe is, at best, an overreaction prompted by 9/11 paranoia and, at worst, a politically motivated attempt to silence a radical artist.

Several of Mr Kurtz's colleagues and artistic collaborators have been subpoenaed and a date for a federal grand jury hearing set for Tuesday. Both artist and his art are set to go on trial for their alleged links with terrorism.

The ordeal started when Mr Kurtz, who teaches at the University at Buffalo, New York state, called the emergency services when he woke up to find Hope, his wife of 25 years, had stopped breathing.

A paramedic who came to his house saw laboratory equipment used in Mr Kurtz's art work. Within hours agents from the Joint Terrorism Task Force were combing his house and had seized his books, personal papers, computer as well as his work which have still not been returned.

Hope, it transpired, had died of a heart failure which no one suggests had anything to do with Mr Kurtz or his work. But as her body lay in the house Mr Kurtz, 46, was whisked off to be questioned for two days while his home was cordoned off and searched. "It's a complete fishing expedition," says Mr Kurtz's lawyer, Paul Cambria. "There's no question that it's a paranoid overreaction that would never have happened before 9/11. I only hope that it is not simply aimed at trying to silence his message or the methods he's using to convey his message." The FBI refuses to comment.

Mr Kurtz, who is not speaking to the press, is part of the Critical Art Ensemble, "dedicated to exploring the intersections between art, technology, radical politics and critical theory".

His art often involves blending biology with agricultural issues. In 2002 his exhibit Molecular Invasion, a statement against genetically modified crops, created a display of small soy, corn and canola plants growing under large incubating lamps. Other exhibits allowed visitors to watch bacteria grow in petri dishes. "He's trying to change the world through his work and his discourse," says Adele Henderson, the head of the art department at the University at Buffalo.
The New York-based writer and artist Greg Sholette says: "His art itself is going to be on trial. The Critical Art Ensemble has a strong tradition of critiquing capitalism and pushing the edges through its art but always within constitutional boundaries."

When the police came to Mr Kurtz's house they found equipment used for extracting and amplifying DNA, as well as three types of bacteria - prompting bioterrorism fears.

"He is obviously not someone who is attempting to make a weapon," says Mr Cambria. "He explained that he uses the equipment for his art."

The subpoenas say the FBI is seeking charges under section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, which has been expanded by the Patriot Act.

It prohibits the possession of "any biological agent, toxin, or delivery system" without the justification of "prophylactic, protective, bona fide research, or other peaceful purpose".

Mr Cambria argues that Mr Kurtz's work "obviously" comes under the last two categories.

"I know everything we did was legal," said Beatriz da Costa, a member of the CAE who says FBI agents followed her to an art show in Massachusetts to serve her a subpoena. "I can only think they are trying to intimidate us and maybe make us an example."

Ms da Costa, a professor at the University of California, says everything found in the house has been exhibited in public before.

Those close to Mr Kurtz or the case believe the case has spun out of control and has potentially huge ramifications. "I feel harassed and hassled," Ms Da Costa says. "But mostly I feel sorry for Steve Kurtz because he lost his wife, and his life has been a nightmare ever since. And he didn't even have time to grieve."


I'm sure that the nature of his exhibit (see highlighted text) had nothing whatsoever to do with his getting such treatment. I mean, it's not as if a big bio-engineering company like Monsanto (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=monsanto+bullying&meta=) would have anything to do with it...

[Nursey]

Barry uses biblical prophesy to make his point, but ]ridicules smurfslapper (http://www.fugly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6889&sid=9714d8fc23ebd453ea024450fa5e7f42) for using the same to make his...

[ucicare]

Barry uses biblical prophesy to make his point, but ]ridicules smurfslapper (http://www.fugly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6889&sid=9714d8fc23ebd453ea024450fa5e7f42) for using the same to make his...

Excuse me? I ridiculed Smurf for being nuts. The Bible had nothing to do with it.

Be nice. I see a wedding in your future.

Barry

[smurfslappa]

Yeah. But oh well. Why couldn't i grow up in the 60's? There was a much simpler time.... I'm not looking forward to going through this. What are you all doing to prepare?

[ucicare]

Yeah. But oh well. Why couldn't i grow up in the 60's? There was a much simpler time.... I'm not looking forward to going through this. What are you all doing to prepare?

I am preparing by wearing clean underwear at all times, and also keeping a magnetized glow in the dark cross on my dash board.

Oh, and I sent money to two televangelist. Both had awesome discount heaven tickets packages. I bought one from each just to cover my bases.

What are you doing to prepare? Do you have a better plan?

Barry

[smurfslappa]

i got an AK, and a rich friend. That's it. I'll have to squat somewhere out in the country until they find my ass, which is eventual. But there's not much else i can do..... we're all screwed. Blaze of GLORY! AaAaArrGGHhhH

[ucicare]

i got an AK, and a rich friend....... Blaze of GLORY! AaAaArrGGHhhH


I see a padded prison cell in your future....

Barry

[Nursey]

Barry uses biblical prophesy to make his point, but ]ridicules smurfslapper (http://www.fugly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6889&sid=9714d8fc23ebd453ea024450fa5e7f42) for using the same to make his...

Excuse me? I ridiculed Smurf for being nuts. The Bible had nothing to do with it.



Barry

I agree that he may be a bit skewy in ways, his opinions on Palestine/Israel for example, but i agree with quite a few of the other things he's said. You appear to be ridiculing the amount of emphasis he puts on biblical prophesy, which isn't too dissimilar to what you posted above.

Smurf - take your Zyprexa. Really.

People like you are the reason non-believers scoff at Christianity.

Just seems hypocritical to me.

Be nice. I see a wedding in your future.

By 'be nice' you mean 'don't disagree'. And Mia's gone, Barry. No one else wants to play your whacky, laugh-a-minute forum marrying game, which is really just a catalyst for dark, sordid aspects of your imagination to flourish off once the strangely hollow tingle wears off from the predictable, mechanical motions of your marital routine . Apart from Schmed, maybe.

[ucicare]

Too late. Mia is Mrs Barry II.

You snooze, you loose.

Barry

[Reizvolles]

Is it true she has a vagina that resembles the Sarlacc on Star Wars?

[ucicare]

Is it true she has a vagina that resembles the Sarlacc on Star Wars?

Turns out she is a shim.
More like the Washington Monument than the Sarlacc.

Shocked me too.

Barry

[Nursey]

Compulsory microchipping on the not-too-distant horizon?

The New Healthcare System (http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_2089.shtml)
September 5, 2005 Issue
Applied Digital wants millions of Americans to be implanted with an RFID chip for medical purposes, and the Frist-Clinton bill (S. 1262) would pave the way.

Former Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Tommy Thompson, who served in the Bush administration’s first term, recently joined the board of directors of Florida-based Applied Digital. Applied Digital is the owner of VeriChip, the company that specializes in making implantable radio frequency identification chips (RFID) for both people and pets.

On July 31, London’s The Business reported that Thompson “is putting the final touches to a plan that could result in US citizens having [an RFID] chip inserted under their skin.” Scott Silverman, CEO of Applied Digital, told WebMD Medical News on July 27 that “some 2,000 people worldwide are using” his company’s implants. “But,” the WebMD report noted, “soon he expects that millions of people will get VeriChip implants every year.”

Silverman also commented to WebMD that when his company “first announced VeriChip, a network poll asked people if they would put one in their bodies. Only 9% said yes. After FDA approval [in October 2004], 19% said yes. When former HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson joined our board, the rate went up to 33%. But our own study shows that if you ask people whether they would have a VeriChip implant to identify their medical records in case of emergency, the positive response goes to 80%.”

Skeptics will dismiss Silverman’s optimistic business forecast as greatly exaggerated, and those with a natural distrust of polls will question the validity of the data. But putting that aside for a moment, consider the fact that Applied Digital is positioning itself to get some major help — from the federal government.

If this socialist healthcare scheme is allowed to pass, and Applied Digital succeeds in partnering with government, then Americans will be seduced into accepting a “seamless” nationalized healthcare system. But those who participate will also end up with a medical ID implant that will undoubtedly morph into a mandatory national ID.


See above link for full story. See also: Dutch to Open Electronic Files on Children (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_child_files;_ylt=Aun0OI.S_9grdD8qhtFsq Qis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-)


"Always such restrictions are cloaked in some sort of compassionate or “reasonable” rationale..."

[ucicare]

I can actually believe that microchipping will happen soon. I have a hard time seeing it as a "mandatory" step, but the consequences for not getting chipped will be difficult to manage.

Funny, this is not news to Christians -

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark." Rev 13:16-17

Barry

[pimpchichi]

stop this crazy talk barry!!

[diogenes]

Here's what I think Nursey. No doubt the government is becoming a police state. That much is clear. The fact the Echelon (if you don't know what I'm talking about you're in the wrong forum) has been running for 40 years is the clearest indication of that. I haven't been able to confirm it, but they may have already launched Echelon 2. Echelon one monitored telephone communication. Echelon 2 is a data mining algorithm, and I think Y2K was the distribution platform, that monitors internet traffic for subversive content. What's the next step though? If I was a group seeking to control a populace, and bend it to my will, I would have a hunter-seeker algorithm to go along with that data-mining algorithm. You're looking in the wrong places. Always be wary of he who seeks to contol the information you see, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. It goes much further than RFID implants. The government won't just be tracking us, they'll be controlling what it is that we are even able to see on the internet. If you're right, by the time this is done intellectual transactions like this won't even exist, and I haven't even begun to mention the potential of nano-distribution of "human augmentation."

[diogenes]

How close are we to developing nano-technology capable of delivering information and genetic augmentation. 2 days ago Purdue anounced they had a nano-particle they had succesfully used to fight specific forms of cancer. Google search it and find out for yourself. As far as the information control and enhancement, the developement of organic molecule based computers is well underway, and the mind-machine interface is already breaking ground in labratory tests. They have paralyzed monkeys using robotic arms to pick stuff up using only the chips implanted on their brain. This can go one of 2 ways, either technology leads to pure democracy, where every citizen is involved in every choice, or someone pulls the strings in some sort of quazi-cyberdictatorship. Interesting to think about. Google search all of this if you don't already know.