Stuff you already know

[Nursey]

We spend much of our time locked into habitual behaviour and thought patterns in our day to day existence. This causes us to switch off, doing things in a detached automatic repetitive pattern rather than considering each moment as fresh and new. The Universe is constantly creating itself. We are constantly in uncharted territory, though often behave as if we've been here a million times before. We relegate things to categories within a heirarchical system. Washing dishes = complete auto-pilot mode while reliving conversations we had earlier that day or something else that draws our attention from the 'tedious' task in the here and now. When everything is automatically labelled and categorised like that we become out of touch with reality, experiencing only black or white, or dull grey in autopilot mode...but not the full spectrum of colour that lies between the poles of dark and light that becomes evident when the flip between those extremes cease and we are able to get full spectrum awareness. We come-to when something appeals to us or scares us for example, extremes of 'bad' or 'good'. This leaves us constantly reacting against an opposite, like scales that are never balanced, just always tipping completely one way or the other, and unable to experience that point of harmony where balance is achieved, causing both sides of the scales to 'magically' both levitate causing a third force that is neither one side or the other but both sides at once-and more (synergy). When balance is achieved, it's not about one side or the other battling it out on anymore, it takes it all up to another level alltogether where the point of gravitational balance creates a central pivotal force that transends the restrictions of dualty creating new potential. Everything is down to perception, and most in modern industrialised society are so over-stimulated we have difficulty coming down a bit in vibration to stay fully immersed in 'mundane' experiences. But every moment in life contains the full meaning, past-present-future all rolled into one. And each moment is eternal and fully accounted for in terms of the whole.
It's useful to, every so often, view the nature of reality from different perspectives in order to 'keep it fresh' , and stay connected to the central point ('here and now') of your experience wherever in space and time your existence manifests at any given moment in this Universe we are all an intrinsically interwoven part of.
We all have weaknesses, and are all here to improve our selfs/souls, and should therefore be understanding, patient and forgiving with ourselves when we fault providing we are sincere in our hearts in wanting to achieve a worthy, honourable goal.

"This isn't a dress rehearsal"...this is the actual show!

[Checkmate]

Top post Nursey!!

Here's something I thought i would add along similar lines.

I wanted a perfect ending. Now I've learned the hard way that some poems dont rhyme, and some stories dont have a clear begining middle and end. Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the most of it without knowing whats going to happen next.

[whocares?]

Nursey,

The post is well wriiten. Is it your writing or is it an article from somewhere?

I used to believe most of the things you write in the piece above. I did not know it at the time, but most of that philosophy is the framework for Eastern Religion, specifically Hinduism. It makes great sense on a cerebral level, and it offers an explaination of life and spiritual things that seems to "work." The problem I found with it after years of believeing it wasthis - it left me "centered", but I felt very dead and empty inside. It worked for my brain, but it didn't work for my soul.

I started studying "religion" in 1988, and actually earned a BS degree in Theology. I think that messed me up more than the New Age teachings did. Orthodox Christianity, the form most of the world knows, is just as hollow.

I can tell you this from my experience - all "ways" do not lead to truth. There are several themes that seem to be repeated in all religious systems, with the exception of spiritual Christianity (SC?). Please understand that I do not thing that being the exception proves anything. I am just talking about patterns.

Examples -

1. All systems other than SC, includung basic Judaism, believe that we do not really die. They teach some form of soul migration, reincarnation, soul sleep, etc. Only SC teaches that death is a final state of being, and that it only happens once. Yes SC believes that there is live after death, but it requires the intervention of God. In other words, you really are going to die, and anything past that God controls, not you. This is significant for reasons I can explain later if you are interested.

2. All systems teach some form of enlightenment - "your eyes shall be opened" SC says that the problem with man is that his eyes are opened. This sounds like SC wants everyone to be blind and ignorant, but it is so much deeper than that. "Blindness" in th FC sense does not ignorance, it means full knowledge. It means being able to see so clearly that you no longer "see" what is evil. Remember the spectrum of light? What if evil is a certain wavelength in the spectrum, and "good" is in a certain spectrum. If your spiritual eyes were opened fully, and the light of "good" shone with overwhelming brightness, wouldn't we be "blind" to evil in a positive way? It would still be there, we are aware it is there, but it is covered by a superior light. More later. It is an involved concept.

3. All system teach some form of progression that ends with humans becoming "perfect" or "gods." based on their actions and choices. FC is the direct opposite of this. It teaches that we will never be Gods, and the perfection we will achieve is given as an act of mercy and love. It is not something that can be learned or earned.

4. All other systems teach that it is up to the individual to detemine what is right and wrong for themselves. These systems deny a universal morality, and make the immutable laws of the universe dependant on personal interpretation. FC teaches that their is a code of morality that is consistent across the cosmos. What most people don't get,however, is that this code was put in place to serve man, and not for man to serve it. Pretty deep here too, so more later.


If you read this far thanks. Just trying to provide food for thought.


Barry

[pimpchichi]

fc?

[whocares?]

fc?


Sorry, it should read SC and stands for Spiritual Christianity. I don't really know anything else to call it. It is just a term I use to describe someone of the christian faith that rejects the labels of Baptist, Catholic, etc, and does not subsrcibe to the rules based, legalist, hell fire and brimstone theology of mainline Christianity. I believe they were called "Jesus Freaks" back in the 1960's.

Hope that makes sense.

Barry

[Nursey]

Checkmate: glad it 'hit the spot'. Your follow up makes sense to me also.
Nursey,

The post is well wriiten. Is it your writing or is it an article from somewhere?
Yes, it's my own, otherwise i'd have accredited the author or linked back to its source.

I used to believe most of the things you write in the piece above. I did not know it at the time, but most of that philosophy is the framework for Eastern Religion, specifically Hinduism. It makes great sense on a cerebral level, and it offers an explaination of life and spiritual things that seems to "work." The problem I found with it after years of believeing it wasthis - it left me "centered", but I felt very dead and empty inside. It worked for my brain, but it didn't work for my soul.
Well, i'm not going to try and find your way for you, or go into lengthy philosophical debates about what i know (preferring to keep it as simple as possible). I've written from my own experience, which i'm a keen observor of. There's nothing there that requires you to accept as truth anything you can't perceive directly for yourself. Though an in depth understanding yin and yang (or 'Universal compass'), the simplest thing in the world, and yet so complex...(paradoxically)...will significantly ground and empower. Also, read some basic bhuddist philosophy and a bit about 'the Tao' (which have the philosophy of yin and yang at their root, as did a martial art i did {Shorinji Kempo} for a few years). But all these words are not exactly it and are only there to guide you to your own personal central ground, which only you can know. If there was an invisible force that is beyond our minds ability to perceive by itself, (imagine it as a circle cut out of a piece of cardboard), then i (and all guiding words) am actually only describing the part which can be perceived (the cardboard) in order for you to get the sense of the indescribable invisible hole. Don't confuse the mental construct for the experience itself.
If increasing awareness and transcending dualty (conflict between the poles) leaves you numb, i'd suspect that you weren't really transcending them, and that the state you experienced wasn't pure 'here and now' but rather your own forced mental (ego) construct of 'it', and what you experienced was only your mind increased to full power and not the full spectrum (all levels) of your being/soul. I know that would leave me feeling 'numb'. Head and heart, mind and emotion, are also two ends of a pole that needs to be in harmony for you to fully experience the 'here and now'. It's a balancing act which takes patience and perseverence before you start to see any results. Just like learning to ride a bike. And at first when you succeed, you might be wobbling all over the place, but as time goes on a greater sense of that elusive 'not this not that but something else' begins to take hold.
I'm not well versed in physics, but i believe it's the equivalent of quantuum thinking, which goes beyond binary which only gives a flat, linear version of the world, and not the all encompassing multi-dimension of quantuum thought.

Here's a post i did for another forum a while back...


But I do believe that it's imperative to arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can about what's going on. Information spreads by osmosis. Each person counts, and no matter how miniscule a difference you can make, it all adds up. Who knows what could be accomplished if enough people receive enough information. Even if we can't change it, surely it's better to know that you were one of the ones who tried. Your 'fatalism' more often than not appears to amount to sticking your head in the sand or at other times, denial. As troubling as it can be, surely it's better to face truth than a sugar coated reality?
And even if the sum total of all your best efforts amounts to no more than a grain of sand, i think that grain of sand will be all it takes to tip the scales in terms of your conscience.

I think everything you know adds up to whatever you are at any given moment. I think that what you know changes you intrinsically, and what you are is the signature of every one of your actions, even down to each breath or beat of your heart. So everything that you do is permeated with all that you are. And every action sets into motion another action (domino effect). And the exact frequency of a persons actions will travel through everything else those actions set in motion.
Physical, observable phenomenon such as the gross bodily functions are composed of energy and this is also true of thoughts and emotions; they just don't share the same range of frequencies. Thought is simply energy that causes the neurons in the brain to fire in a certain pattern. This produces currents in the brain that can be measured through electrodes on the skull. We know that no energy is lost in a closed system, so if this energy can be measured outside of the head, it means that the thought energy radiated out as electromagnetic waves at the velocity of light into the environment and eventually the cosmos. (Bentov 101)

.

"Einstein once said that anyone studying physics long enough is inevitably led into metaphysics."
Quantum physics has come to the realization that , basically, there is no matter. It is believed that the seeming reality of our material world is nothing more than the extension or manifestation of our thinking. Thought produces energy and energy produces mass. Several great religions have acknowledged this concept all along. Now, physics is coming to the same conclusions.
When a quantum situation is observed, it changes. The observation itself becomes part of the equation.
How does will manifest in the physical world? How is it that what I wish to accomplish sometimes occurs without seeming effort, while at other times, even with great expenditure of energy, I fail in my endeavors? According to a new interpretation of quantum physics,observation and awareness have a far greater effect on the physical world than was previously suspected. Intent, through our powers of observation, actually modifies and alters the course of the physical world and causes things to occur that would not normally occur. I will illustrate three new quantum principles of intent based on the old proverb of a watched pot.
a) A watched quantum pot never boils if you observe it to not boil.
b) A watched quantum pot boils if you observe it to boil.
c) A watched quantum pot boils even on a cake of ice, if you observe it to boil.
This implies that there is a deep connection between the observer and the observed. So deep, in fact, that we really cannot separate them. All we can do is alter the way we experience reality. This is where intent comes in.
The Meaning of Intent in Quantum Mechanics (http://www.qedcorp.com/pcr/pcr/wolfpot.html)


And now i will throw you by agreeing with Islam in saying "only God is perfect".

[smiles]

Nursey much of what you're saying sounds a lot like what my Kung Fu teacher used to teach, out of curiosity, are you into meditation and if so what type?

[ucicare]

Nursey, you amaze me. I am not saying I agree with you on everything, I am just admitting publically that your depth of thought amazes me.

I thought of you today when I saw this quote -

"I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously " - Abigail Adams

(American letter writer and first lady (1797-1801), wife of John Adams, 2nd US president, and mother of John Quincy Adams, 6th US president, 1744-1818)

Do you write anything creative or non political? Poetry, etc?

Barry

[Robman97]

Excellent post. I totally relate to the not seeing things, just focusing one thing and letting everything else go by. It seems like the only time I have ever just sat back and let my mind see everything around me, was when I was stoned. I need to get into meditation or Tai Chi or some other sort of relaxing art, where I can just let my mind go wherever it desires.

[smiles]

bro trust me on this you need A LOT of petience for both, i've infact doen both for over 2 years and it never worked for me... it can be very frustrating, if you're going to try it tho i suggest you be very picky about who you shuld study under, there's a lot of quacks and even more nut jobs

[Robman97]

Cool, thanks for the warning. Maybe I will just put on some monk chant from the net and sit here in silence with some candles burning. Or just drink myself into a stupor.

[ucicare]

Cool, thanks for the warning. Maybe I will just put on some monk chant from the net and sit here in silence with some candles burning. Or just drink myself into a stupor.



No offense Robman, but you just hit accidentally hit on a very good point. My experience with meditation and drinking revealed to me that they are both the same - checked me out of reality for a while, but when you open your eyes the next morning, the same old mess is still there. What I mean is this - neither drinking or meditation were able to make lasting changes in my life.

Barry

[pimpchichi]

so you meditated to experience a different reality??... should've stuck with the acid... (speaking of acid... i once worked with a born again christian preacher.. one of those "SC" christians.. he found god whilst on acid)

why not try meditating to understand this reality better.. then when you open your eyes in the morning this mess will make more sense

[ucicare]

so you meditated to experience a different reality??... should've stuck with the acid... (speaking of acid... i once worked with a born again christian preacher.. one of those "SC" christians.. he found god whilst on acid)

why not try meditating to understand this reality better.. then when you open your eyes in the morning this mess will make more sense

[ucicare]

so you meditated to experience a different reality??... should've stuck with the acid... (speaking of acid... i once worked with a born again christian preacher.. one of those "SC" christians.. he found god whilst on acid)

why not try meditating to understand this reality better.. then when you open your eyes in the morning this mess will make more sense

Sorry about the entry above, hit the wrong buttton. Interesting about the acid. Most of the people I know who have a "religious experience" on acid have an encounter with a very different God than the one I refer to. Acid opens a spiritual window, not doubt. It "lifts the veil" so to speak. So did this SC friend of yours turn into a religious freak, or is he OK? Just curious how he ended up.

Oh, and I'm not an anti-meditation person, I just personally don't do it.

Barry

[pimpchichi]

he was a biker.. now he's a preacher

[Nursey]

Nursey much of what you're saying sounds a lot like what my Kung Fu teacher used to teach, out of curiosity, are you into meditation and if so what type?
I used to do a little bit of ZaZen meditation (http://www.chsbs.cmich.edu/Guy_Newland/REL%20320/Learning%20Guide%20Folder/lg9zenpractice.htm) when i went to Shorinji Kempo (http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp/wh-shorinji/p-02.html) (which apart from the actual fighting techniques, taught a little bit of acupressure {Shiatsu} and meditation too). But like most people, i don't have the patience to sit down and 'officially' meditate, but i'm always meditative whatever it is i'm doing, meaning i'm always aware. Not always 'pure' (free from mental chatter), but always aware. Sometimes circumstances become conducive to a spontaneous meditative state of calm.

"The lotus position is nice and stable, and great when you don't have chairs, but it's hardly a requirement. There's nothing "enlightenment-sucking" about chairs, or any particularly mystically significant about the lotus position. What it does is keep your back straight and keep you from wobbling (sitting merely cross-legged is not adequate for that purpose. Sitting in your chair with your hands comfortably on your knees (not clasping) and your back straight and away from the back of the chair, is perfectly adequate for most office (or computer desk) chairs. Do turn off the monitor though..." ZaZen (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZaZen)

To Robman, the best advice i could give is to find out if there is a Shorinji Kempo club nearby you could join. I have total respect for it. There is so much good stuff i could say about it, and i'm not in best communicative mode right now (not long woken up), so spend some time investigating the official World Shorinji Kempo site (http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp/wh-shorinji/p-02.html). Many of the benefits i reaped (on all levels) from my three years i dedicated to it are still with me to this day, 14 years later.

And ucicare, the only writing i do is the stuff i do online, mainly here and another forum i've posted at for a few years.

[Nursey]

The spirit that resides within practice (http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp/wh-shorinji/p-05.html)

The characteristic condition of Shorinji Kempo practice consistently has a state of "harmony" as its source. For example, there is a teaching that mind and body are existences that cannot be separated from each other, so in applying oneself to practice one must work for a harmony between the cultivation of the heart and the tempering of the body. Again, amidst technical practice and during zazen, the breathing is very important. Method in breathing simultaneously orders the breathing and disciplines mind and body, and is the most effective method for putting into practice spiritual strength and physical strength.

Breath or breathing is the wellspring of life for all living creatures, and the wellspring of strength. From ancient times, it has been taught that "when the breath calms the mind calms, when the mind is calm the breath is calm. Even so, the breath is the mind, and the mind is the breath."

The fact that when the breath is disturbed the mind is disturbed, and when the mind grows disturbed the breath grows disturbed is something we experience daily, but it also can happen that disturbance of the breath affects the spirit, decreases our energy, affects our physique, and so lies at the root of our illness.

From ancient times, it was thought that breath is one's spirit, an element of spiritual energy, and the source of one's life force- and ordering of the breath was considered the first thing in self cultivation.

[Nursey]

This started off as a response to ucicare's post in the bi-polar thread, but due to where it went i've decided to add it to this thread. It includes a few of the different perspectives i view reality from to 'keep it fresh' from an over-familiar, habitual manner of perception. I might not always be technically perfect in my analogys, but i think they are accurate enough to make any refinements a case of hair splitting, and are operative enough to convey the analogy's meaning. It really isn't ready for posting, its a bit messy and need several of its strands tied up, but i can always add to or clarify any meanings after. I do my best to describe what i see with the tools i have, and sometimes i'll be better at it than other times, so bear with me as i go sprawling off in different directions at times. I can't always put in as much energy, focus and intent as i did with the initial post in this thread.


Another of those Arab proverbs springs to mind...

While the word is yet unspoken, you are master of it; when once it is spoken, it is master of you. --- Egyptian Proverb

Which reminds me of taoist proverbs... "those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know."

"Existence is beyond the power of words
To define
Terms may be used
But are none of them absolute

In the beginning of heaven and earth there were no words,
Words came out of the womb of matter;
And whether a man dispassionately
Sees to the core of life
Or passionately
Sees the surface,
The core and the surface
Are essentially the same,
Words making them seem different
Only to express appearance.
If name be needed, wonder names them both:
From wonder into wonder
Existence opens.
Lao Tzu


Nursey, Please humor me for a minute on this. My obsession in life is attachment research. I do a lot of work with foster care, and I see "primary attachment disruptions" as a huge issue.

You posted a principle of attachment theory in another thread - "That which a baby drinks in his mother's milk will vanish only in the grave." -- Arabian Proverb

Erik Erikson's developmental theory ia based on that too. I strongly believe that first year experiences stick with us forever, and are nearly impossible to change by current psychotherapy methods.

When Jesus said "marvel not, you must be born again, " could he have known that we have to "start over" in some way in order to be truly mentally healthy?

Just a thought.



Perhaps it's the same as i said earlier - 'taking things down to their lowest common denominator in order to address the root of an imbalance. Buddhism states that every human is born with the potential for Buddha nature - it is inherent in every one of us. Buddha nature is a state of total Oneness (a state of complete harmony as symbolised by Yin and Yang, and not the dualistic world of black and white conflicting opposites). This could also be called a state of absolute truth...reality in it's purest, at it's most (live and) direct This isn't just a state of spiritual harmony, but of all aspects of being. This shows how yin and yang are at the root of all aspects of ancient Chinese wisdom, from medicine to philosophy, from astrology to agriculture. And each opposite end of the pole contains the seed of the other, and the bounderies between the opposites aren't clearcut straight from one to the other. Which is how yin and yang is perfectly symbolic.
I believe we are all born , coming out of the darkness of pre-existence into this world, already knowing everything...yet that at that stage we are so at one with 'the All', that our intelligence or consciousness exists at the macrocosmic level, expanded to the 'outermost limits' of the Universe, and is still finding its way into physical being.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/spheresofbeing2.gif
And that parents don't put information into their child in order for it to learn, the child is full of information already, it just needs guiding. I remember reading that new born babies brains are practically free from wrinkles, and that the wrinkles form as the child is flooded with experience(s). This gives the brain a far greater surface area. But although we are 'blank' at birth, we aren't 'empty', in fact the opposite, we're 'full' of 'nothingness'.
So as the child gains experience of existence on this physical plane, it's cosnciousness contracts becoming increasingly located or pinpointed in it's physical being.
The first three years of a child's life are said to be the most formative, and this is the period of the child's most intense physical developement where the child goes from helpless and totally dependant to fully mobile and basically co-ordinated. The next ten years are spent refining these until the next stage in the road to adulthood - puberty. At this point, the emphasis of developement goes from physical to chemical, though these categories are not always clearly defined with each lending weight to the other. Once a person reaches adulthood as defined by their sexual maturity, the first two stages of developement (physical and biological) have been completed, leaving the next stage, the one that is not so obvious but of just as immense importance to the well being of the whole organism, the psychological maturing. This is where so many whose constitutions were sturdy enough to make it through the first two stages without too much difficulty start to reflect the disharmony that is inherent in our culture. So many people stop really developing when they reach adulthood, because they perceive that as being the point of completion , when in fact, it is only the completion of the obvious - the physical developement, and in fact they have just reached the very beginning of a new stage, the next sphere of existence. It reminds me of the martial art i did. White belt was beginner, then yellow, green, blue, brown, black. But black wasn't the end - completion, it just marked the beginning of a whole new sphere of training, through to eighth dan. And the higher in dan, the more 'spiritual' the training. Though having said that, those top dans in Japan spend hours each day revising each and every one of the techniques - including the white belt techniques - in order to find ever more streamlined and energy efficient ways to do them, it as a living, evolving system.

Picture the whole Universe as being just one substance - energy at differant frequencies of vibration. The most dense matter being the lowest in frequency, liquids higher, gas higher and so on. The picture of an oil cooling tower used for distillation is a good analogy. It contains one substance at differant frequencies of molecular vibration. Asphalt, lubricating oil/waxes,gas oil,kerosene, straight run gasoline,natural gas.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/distillationtower.gif
Like the diagrams? :lol:

[ucicare]

I like the diagrams. They do show evidence of cross firing in your synapses, however. I bet that is a rush!

I do have one question - if the entire universe is energy, why am I so tired?

Barry

[Nursey]

I like the diagrams. They do show evidence of cross firing in your synapses, however.

Hmm, well that sounds intresting, but neuroscience not being my strong point, i'll need you to explain to me exactly how you came to that conclusion, what it means and why it isn't a good thing? I must warn you though, that after your last few failed attempts to cyber-diagnose and summarise my psychological profile, i'll be keeping a large pinch of salt handy, Doctor...i mean councillor Barry. :wink:
Who knows, I might even agree with you, but interpret the significance differently. Maybe your view reflects a standard scientific classification - of 'mental illness' - the very thing which represents the most revolutionary and pioneering forefront of scientific thought today... non-linear 'three-dimensional' thinking. :?
I bet that is a rush!
Yeah, well...y'know...it doesn't take me much. I even got a small burst of seratonin when i noticed how well a meditating Buddha fitted into that diagram i did up there, not only visually, but in demonstrating the same principles....far out (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/spheres.gif), huh!?!! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/costumed-smiley-031.gif
I do have one question - if the entire universe is energy, why am I so tired?
What is...'tired'? *Emits heavenly aroma from Seat of Being* http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/4079.gif

[ucicare]

[quote="ucicare"]I like the diagrams. They do show evidence of cross firing in your synapses, however.

Nursey Wrote -
Hmm, well that sounds intresting, but neuroscience not being my strong point, i'll need you to explain to me exactly how you came to that conclusion, what it means and why it isn't a good thing?



It means that I was trying to be funny. I'm tired of being an ass full time. It requires too much energy.

I did read you post, but I've had company all night. My wife gets mad when I turn on the computer with guests in the house, so I will have to post my 20 page analysis later. (humor attempt again.)

Back at the feet....

Barry

[Nursey]

*Squelch* !?!...what the hell was that!!?!
























http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/splatcopy.jpg
UUUUURGH!!! OH GODDD!!! BARRYYYY!!!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING DOWN THERE!?!! *hops off to scrape mess off shoe* :x

[ucicare]

I would marry a women with a leg like that. Thunder Thighs are hot.

Barry

[pimpchichi]

get in the queue barry :twisted: ....

and she does not have thunder thighs :shock: ... they are slim and sexy.. and awaiting chichi's arrival in a few hours....

[Nursey]

I rattled this out earlier before going to hospital to see a specialist about my broken little finger which the doctors there had given me conflicting advice about, and as a result it is now irreparabley fucked. I was offered amputation as one of my options. Hooray for the post-Thatcher NHS! Here it is in its raw, unchecked state...

'The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light; but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness.' (Mathew 6:22,23)(Jesus)

If i were to choose one sentence to sum up my whole philosophy,
I should say: allow no evil in your thoughts. (Confucius)


Has it ever occurred to you that being the culmination of many thousands of years of generations...that when you look in the mirror, you are looking not just at yourself, but the self of millions of others of which you are the end result. That if just one out of the millions that went into producing you were someone else, you would not be you. That the point in space and time where the beings of all these millions of others who went before you converge is you. That the precise thoughts and actions of individuals who lived even 10 000 years ago are responsible for producing you. That each sexual coupling that resulted in an ancestor of yours is sexual energy that you embody. That the intent that stemmed from each of your ancestors beings that directed them to the exact point where they produced another step on the way to you is part of the sum total that is you. That you, at this exact moment are the culmination of every one of your thoughts, feelings and actions that preceded this moment. And everyone that went into making you at the exact moment of conception of each of their children.
Everything around us is connected to everything that went before. So really we are the past, present and future rolled into one, as is everything around us. The very beginning set into motion the process that brought us to this point right here. The point right now where i am writing this. Or you are reading this. And as you read this, you are being affected by me. And all that has gone into creating me. You will never be quite the same again. You have been changed by this, and whatever you do next will be slightly different to if you hadn't done this and done something else instead. All my sum life experiences which brought me to this point, to think these exact thoughts is what is altering you. All my ancestors right back to the dawn of time are the sum total that is represented by me, and all that is affecting you right here and now at the exact point where the information i am conveying to you enters your consciousness and creates a response in the way you feel, which will affect what you think and do and also set into motion. Every colour, taste, shape and smell alters you intrinsically. And you go on to affect evrything else. It's All happening right Here. Wherever Here happens to Be at any given moment in time. Everything is affecting everything. We are even affected by gravitational pulls from planets and galaxies billions of light years away. The light of some stars you see have been travelling for thousands...millions...billions... of years before reaching your retina where it alters your exact experience. Some of the light comes from stars which no longer exist, yet their energy continues to change the universe. A spark of electricity that generates a / is generated by ...thought will forever alter the universe. And the exact thought itself is the product of what you (entirely) are. at any given moment. Great or small, solar system or atom, each is equally important in shaping the entire universe. Each has its role which fulfills in its entirety. Size is relative. This whole universe might be one atom in a far more vast universe which itself is only an atom in one far greater still. An atom in our universe might contain a whole universe. The seed of an enormous tree contains as much genetic information as the whole tree. Each is equally important to the life force of the tree in enabling its presence to manifest. Each moment is as important to the whole as all time itself. Each one of us is as important to all of humanity as all humanity is to each of us. Each of us expresses an aspect of the human race that defines the human race. We all have at source the same life force (pure, brilliant white light). We are all a unique expression of that light as it manifests in the physical realm. Each one of us is a different facet of the same thing.
When i see a person i've never seen before, that person will create a reflection in me of myself reflected in a different way. I will have experienced an aspect of humanity in myself that i would never have before having encountered that person or seen that face....which itself is a result of the sum total of all their dna and life experience. Each one of is is also a reflection of conditions in the universe at any given moment or place. It's All energy including ourselves. Our physical bodies are energy vibrating at a dense rate. Our thoughts, spirits, souls are energy at high frequency of vibration. The spark of life enters dark matter and animated life begins. A thought is light or energy or electricity entering the uncharted dark matter of the brain.
"From wonder into wonder opens wonder". Is anyone still reading this? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/dstrictnursey/rolleyes.gif

[Nursey]

"From wonder into wonder opens wonder".
...should have read 'From wonder into wonder existence opens'. And there are a couple of bits i would have changed if i had been in a better mood than i was when i got home yesterday. :roll:
Here is another way of interpreting the same thing (http://www.gaianxaos.com/SHivaya.htm) i have already talked about in this thread, this time from a Hindu perspective. It is worth reading the whole thing, but i'll post some of it here.
The Great Lord is represented by a three-headed figure of Shiva. This figure is also known as the Eternal Shiva. A stone carving depicting this image exists in the Great Cave of Shiva at Elephanta, which was created in the eighth century A.D. This amazing sculpture captures the process of creation and the nature of the Infinite Being in a very straightforward manner. The middle head represents the Absolute, the divine center. The head over the right shoulder is a male profile and represents the masculine aspect of existence. The head over the left shoulder is the profile of the feminine principle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/greatshiva.jpg
The image of the Dancing Lord immediately conveys the dynamic motion of reality and nature. However, in the midst of his furious dance of creation and dissolution, Shiva remains in a state of elegant serenity. Just as in the sculpture of the Eternal Shiva of Elephanta, his expression is undisturbed by the qualities of existence, for he is eternally absorbed in the Infinite Brahman. His attention is not directed outward, but inward, towards the inner Self (Atman) which resides deep in the heart of all things. The place where the Shiva’s dance is performed is known as Chidambaram, which refers to the heat of the individual and the heart of the Universe. “This is His Dance. Its deepest significance is felt when it is realized that it takes place within the heart and the self. Everywhere is God: that Everywhere is the heart.” [11] The Atman is the eternal soul which is never born, never suffers, and can never be destroyed. Atman and Brahman are one. Abiding in the eternal bliss of the all-knowing Self, Shiva’s dances creates the illusion of Maya, yet he is never distracted from the inner light of Brahman-Atman.

“His form is everywhere:
All-pervading in His Shiva-Shakti:
Chidambaram is everywhere, everywhere His dance:
As Shiva is all and omnipresent,
Everywhere is Shiva’s gracious dance made manifest.” [12]

Shiva’s dance represents the source of all existence (Brahman) dancing playfully with it’s Self (Atman). The figure embodies five major attributes of the Infinite Being: creation and evolution (sristi), preservation and support (sthiti), destruction (samhara), veiling and illusion (tirobhava), and release and grace (anugraha). The purpose of the dance is to release the souls of the illusioned by awakening the infinite spirit, which is the frequency of infinity. Shiva’s divine light penetrates the darkest realms of Maya. The source of this light is Chidambaram, within the Heart.

An essential key that can be used to unlock the mystery of Shiva lies in understanding that the Infinite Being represents the union of all polarities, which is why Shiva appears so paradoxical to the rational mind. The Infinite Being is infinitely small and infinitely large, everywhere and nowhere, good and evil, positive and negative, hot and cold, as well as violent and peaceful. We’ve already seen that the universe is the result of interacting polarities, such as the male and female heads of the Eternal Shiva. In the same context, the God and Goddess, yin and yang, are the first born manifestations of the Absolute. The Absolute is beyond the differentiating qualities of sex, and at the same time the Absolute is both male and female. In order to explore this idea, let’s consider the tradition of Shakti-Shiva.

[Nursey]

(From the same article..)
To obtain liberation (moksa) is to awaken from the illusion of selfish desires and material attachments. The material world is called Maya because it is only a temporary mirage or reflection of the Infinite Being, which is eternal. The Personality of Godhead is the source of all existence, which lives deep inside each and every heart. Each specific part of existence essentially contains the whole. Yet, at the same time, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Everything comes from the Godhead, and the Godhead is everything.

Throughout this exploration into the depths of transcendental wisdom we have encountered many conceptions of Shiva, the Infinite Being. Shiva represents the Godhead which is the Original Source as well as the Destroyer of all existence. Shiva is the essence of the Infinite Brahman. Brahman is incomprehensible to the rational intellect because the transcendental Absolute is eternally beyond any form of definition. The essence of Shiva is often conveyed through the use of metaphorical images which are designed to resonate with the subconscious intuition of living entities which are currently existing as finite projections of Infinite Source. However, the Infinite Source is actually within the heart of each living entity. The illusion of Maya, which is created through identification of the Atman with material nature, causes forgetfulness of one’s eternal connection to the Source of All that Is. The only way out of this illusion is to realize the broadest sense, which is that everything comes from and returns to the One Source. This Source is the divine consciousness of the Infinite Being. The only way to truly contact this Reality is through the grace of the Infinite Being, which is given freely to those who are engaged in loving devotional service to the Supreme Personality of the Godhead.

[ucicare]

The seed of an enormous tree contains as much genetic information as the whole tree. Each is equally important to the life force of the tree in enabling its presence to manifest. Each moment is as important to the whole as all time itself. Each one of us is as important to all of humanity as all humanity is to each of us. Each of us expresses an aspect of the human race that defines the human race. We all have at source the same life force (pure, brilliant white light). We are all a unique expression of that light as it manifests in the physical realm. Each one of us is a different facet of the same thing.


I was just curious how the above statement can peacefully coexist with a pro-choice position. :shock:

Barry

[Nursey]

Trust Barry to snuffle the smelly truffle out. When i said there were bits that i would have changed... Each one of us is as important to all of humanity as all humanity is to each of us. Each of us expresses an aspect of the human race that defines the human race.
...was the bit i primarily had in mind.
Anyway, as far as the question of abortion is concerned, here is my view, though i had greater difficulty articulating it than the subjects i'm more prone to discussing, so bear that in mind when you read it...

Firstly, i think life is sacred. And that abortion is the killing of a human, at whatever stage. However, the way i see it isn't simple black and white...as you might have guessed. Using an analogy is necessary here, the 'fruit of thy womb' will do. The 'fruit' (baby) fully ripens and then emerges from the womb, equivalent to the point when an actual piece of fruit is ready for eating. The point where the fruit becomes good enough to eat is the point where the child becomes a full human...in its own right. But just as a fruit can be eaten before it is fully ripe, a baby born a bit prematurely with no artificial life support at all still has a good chance of survival, but the further back in gestation, greener the fruit, the less it falls into the category of 'viable in its own right'.
This doesn't mean i think nothing of aborting 'non-viable-in-own-right' babies, i'm just trying to demonstrate the difference between killing an embryo and a fully gestated child. The difference between crushing a hard, green, sour developing fruit and crushing a perfectly ripened, juicy sweet peach. Neither are good, but the latter is a greater sin. The goodness / humanness being destroyed is at its pinnacle...ready to eat.

I think the choice should be left to the mother, who will have to live with the consequences...whatever her choice...for ever. Don't underestimate that. Who would get an abortion lightly? To me, the idea would be a horrifying nightmare...though there are some who view the whole thing comparitively lightly. A child born of a mother so psychologically twisted or numb is probably going to have a bleak upbringing anyway, and a high chance of turning out the same. Just to point out that nothing is simple black / white.

We are living in a very troubled world, and trying to force onto people the sort of circumstances you would expect from a Utopia just isn't going to work. Until the fundamental causes of suffering in the world are properly addressed and eradicated, you cannot have such severe attitudes towards those who cannot cope. In an ideal world, no one would want an abortion in the first place. It's not as if it enhances the life experience in any way. In an ideal world, no one would want to be a desperate heroin addict either, but life's problems can be overwhelming.

I don't think embryos/foetuses should be scientifically experimented on, though. That's cold. And unforgiveable.

[ucicare]

Trust Barry to snuffle the smelly truffle out. When i said there were bits that i would have changed... Each one of us is as important to all of humanity as all humanity is to each of us. Each of us expresses an aspect of the human race that defines the human race.
...was the bit i primarily had in mind.
Anyway, as far as the question of abortion is concerned, here is my view, though i had greater difficulty articulating it than the subjects i'm more prone to discussing, so bear that in mind when you read it...

Firstly, i think life is sacred. And that abortion is the killing of a human, at whatever stage. However, the way i see it isn't simple black and white...as you might have guessed. Using an analogy is necessary here, the 'fruit of thy womb' will do. The 'fruit' (baby) fully ripens and then emerges from the womb, equivalent to the point when an actual piece of fruit is ready for eating. The point where the fruit becomes good enough to eat is the point where the child becomes a full human...in its own right. But just as a fruit can be eaten before it is fully ripe, a baby born a bit prematurely with no artificial life support at all still has a good chance of survival, but the further back in gestation, greener the fruit, the less it falls into the category of 'viable in its own right'.
This doesn't mean i think nothing of aborting 'non-viable-in-own-right' babies, i'm just trying to demonstrate the difference between killing an embryo and a fully gestated child. The difference between crushing a hard, green, sour developing fruit and crushing a perfectly ripened, juicy sweet peach. Neither are good, but the latter is a greater sin. The goodness / humanness being destroyed is at its pinnacle...ready to eat.

I think the choice should be left to the mother, who will have to live with the consequences...whatever her choice...for ever. Don't underestimate that. Who would get an abortion lightly? To me, the idea would be a horrifying nightmare...though there are some who view the whole thing comparitively lightly. A child born of a mother so psychologically twisted or numb is probably going to have a bleak upbringing anyway, and a high chance of turning out the same. Just to point out that nothing is simple black / white.

We are living in a very troubled world, and trying to force onto people the sort of circumstances you would expect from a Utopia just isn't going to work. Until the fundamental causes of suffering in the world are properly addressed and eradicated, you cannot have such severe attitudes towards those who cannot cope. In an ideal world, no one would want an abortion in the first place. It's not as if it enhances the life experience in any way. In an ideal world, no one would want to be a desperate heroin addict either, but life's problems can be overwhelming.

I don't think embryos/foetuses should be scientifically experimented on, though. That's cold. And unforgiveable.

I believe that this may be the first rational thing you have wriiten. (At least that I have read) Back on your meds are ya?

I hope you have a good week. We in the US are enjoying a day off in observance of Martin Luther King day. What a Country!

Barry




Barry

[Nursey]

I believe that this may be the first rational thing you have wriiten. (At least that I have read)

This coming from the guy who responds to political questions with quotes from the bible.

Back on your meds are ya?

Nope. Thankfully, I'm not a fellow inmate of the chemical asylum you are so fond of advertising the merits of. Feeling nice and secure in that straightjacket?

[ucicare]

Nursey is abusing me again! My world is back to normal! :D

Barry