When the truth confronts, absurdity is sure to follow"

[ucicare]

"When the truth confronts, absurdity is sure to follow"

It is a fact of life. Whenever a truth or fact contradicts or interferes with someone's pleasures, pursuits, principles or pathology, it becomes necessary for them to create a bizarre and absurd rationalization to refute the fact, thus excusing their bad behaviors.


A historical example would be this

Truth - The Earth is round.

Absurd rationalization that follows -
" The earth is flat, can't you see? and there will be no money wasted on exploration to prove otherwise, because it would be wasteful to have the Queens ships consumed by the dragons that live below the earth's edges."

Want a few modern examples to get you started?

Truth - Abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

Absurd rationalization that follows -
"A baby does not become a human until it breathes it's first breath, the "breath of life."
"A women has a right to choose" ( what happened to the babies right to choose? see 1. above)
"no child would choose to be born into this hell" (lets ask them)
" A fetus feels no pain"

You get the idea.

Want a few more?

Truth - Marijuania is addictive, and slowly destroys those who use it.

ARTF - "marijuania is an herb, and it is natural, therefore it is harmless."
" god made MJ. therefore he must want us to smoke it"
"it is safer than alcohol"
"you can't get addicted to MJ"
"the problem will go away if you legalize it"

Truth - Sex between adults and children is depravity of the highest order.

ARTF - http://216.220.97.17/


Truth - AD/HD is a real psychiatric disorder.

ARTF " if the parents would just discipline, there would not be a problem"
" AD/HD is just caused by poor nutrition, sugar, dyes in food, etc."
" the drug companies invented AD/HD in order to market ritalin"


And my favorite absurdities that contradict the obvious truths -

" there is a third gender, which shares the sexualality of both male and female."

"humans evolved from lower primates over millions of years of mutation and selection"

"the government of the US knows that aliens exist, and is covering up the truth"

" there is a vast right wing conspiracy...."


I have lots more that I can share if anyone is interested. Would also like to hear your examples of truths and absurdities. I'll be glad to confuse you with rational thinkng and solid facts if you are like.

Happy posting.

Barry

[Schmed]

My personal favorite absurdity is this

"There is a mystical all powerfull omniscent being who dwells in a magical land called Heaven and he made the universe in 7 days and he is watching us all the time making sure that we are conducting ourselves in a manner which he deems to be good and will award the "good" ones with eternal life in his magical land of heaven and will punsih the "bad" ones by banishing them to eternal damnation in a magical land called Hell!!"

followed closely by this one

"There is a mystical being who lives at the north poll and he watches over all the children to make sure they are conducting themselves in a manner which he deems to be good and willl reward the "good" children with presents and will punish the "bad" ones with socks full of coal!!"

[pimpchichi]

then howcome my white socks always end up black schmed... answer me that!!

[Dr.Roboto]

My personal favorite absurdity is this

"There is a mystical all powerfull omniscent being who dwells in a magical land called Heaven and he made the universe in 7 days and he is watching us all the time making sure that we are conducting ourselves in a manner which he deems to be good and will award the "good" ones with eternal life in his magical land of heaven and will punsih the "bad" ones by banishing them to eternal damnation in a magical land called Hell!!"

followed closely by this one

"There is a mystical being who lives at the north poll and he watches over all the children to make sure they are conducting themselves in a manner which he deems to be good and willl reward the "good" children with presents and will punish the "bad" ones with socks full of coal!!"


get this, ive been told that because i "dont not have jesus or god in my heart" that i will go to hell, but a child molester who has messed with the innocence of many children will go to heaven if he believes in god. so in theory all i have to do is believe in jesus in my dying minutes and i will be alright, shit i may even have the child molester as a friend in heaven.
in the end truth will prevail , only a matter of time right?

[Schmed]

then howcome my white socks always end up black schmed... answer me that!!

wash your feet my friend.

[pimpchichi]

you said you'd do it :oops:

[Schmed]

all right fine, bring em over here...

[unlimited-time]

I was being to think maybe Barry wasn't as bad as i thought at first but now i realise he's a fuckin bible basher everything i first thought of him is back.
Do you really believe there's someone watching over us, guess what Barry it was made up by the few to control the masses and it worked.Nothing better than putting the fear of God into people to make them behave.

[Schmed]

People that would rather kneel down than take control of their own lives make me sick...

[pimpchichi]

Abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

babies are innocent??... are they not born with original sin, and then have to be 'born again' into the light of jeeebus etc??

anyway.. foetus as person is an emotive issue... people are the sum of their life experiences... conception and existence in a womb is not an experience as such... can animals go to heaven? a lot of christians say no... even though an animal can't sin... and most pets have more personality... are more of a person.. than a foetus

[pimpchichi]

The Earth is round.

no it's kind of ovalish... like a tangerine

[pimpchichi]

AD/HD is a real psychiatric disorder.

yes.. agreed... but i could point you in the direction of quite a few parents who have spotted symptoms early and have controlled the onset of ADHD by cutting certain chemical additives and food colourings out of their childrens diets without having to resort to ritalin

[ucicare]

I was being to think maybe Barry wasn't as bad as i thought at first but now i realise he's a fuckin bible basher everything i first thought of him is back.
Do you really believe there's someone watching over us, guess what Barry it was made up by the few to control the masses and it worked.Nothing better than putting the fear of God into people to make them behave.

I don't remember dragging God into this. I believe that was Schmed.
Would I get any points back if I reminded you that I hate organized religion, and that I have been kicked out of a church? Would it surprise you if I said that I am sympathetic and accepting of Homosexuals, although I can't for the life of me understand how such an departation from the natural order of things can be considered "normal?" What if i said that I hate Bible thumpers too?

I was raised in a strict, freak show of a religious circus, and I am against the very stereotyped religious system that Schmed ranted about. Sure I believe that there is a God, and I believe in morality and decency, but none of the above is a ticket to the big picnic. That is the greatest absurity of all - that some good thing you do is going to make God like you, and some bad thing is going to make God hate you. THAT is a direct absurdity created to counter the truth.

Every culture that has ever lived on this planet has had some type of belief that centered around an afterlife. A select few didn't invent that. I hope you are right UT. It would be so much simpler if it was just over when we die. My gut tells me that that belief is just another absurdity too.

And just for the record, do you see the fear of God making people behave? People have NEVER behaved, fear or not. Even the good aren't REALLY good, now are they?

Maybe you really are Nursey. I have my doubts. But that would make me like you even more!

Barry

[Checkmate]

When I meet people from other cultures I know that they too want happiness and do not want suffering, this allows me to see them as brothers and sisters.

good advice if I have ever heard any.

[Schmed]

Don't try and put this off on me, you're busted. You love jeebus and gahd. How anyone dosn't believe in evolution is beyond me. You talk about scientific facts to bac k up your arguements, show me some irrefutable proof that this god you love exists and I'll show you apemen skulls...Barry!!

[Schmed]

When I meet people from other cultures I know that they too want happiness and do not want suffering, this allows me to see them as brothers and sisters.

good advice if I have ever heard any.

Serioulsy that's the most intelligent thing that might of ever been said on this board.

[ucicare]

When I meet people from other cultures I know that they too want happiness and do not want suffering, this allows me to see them as brothers and sisters.

good advice if I have ever heard any.


A true statement from a true citizen of the earth. Just so I can understand, do I have to call the people who do want me to suffer "brother?"

Barry

[ucicare]

Abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

babies are innocent??... are they not born with original sin, and then have to be 'born again' into the light of jeeebus etc??

anyway.. foetus as person is an emotive issue... people are the sum of their life experiences... conception and existence in a womb is not an experience as such... can animals go to heaven? a lot of christians say no... even though an animal can't sin... and most pets have more personality... are more of a person.. than a foetus


See what I mean about absurdity following?

Barry

[pimpchichi]

ok barry.. what makes a person a person.. what makes a human human?.. not just a potential person

[pimpchichi]

c'mon barry.... you need to tell me how a foetus is a fully fledged person... without just resorting to BIG PROTEST BANNERS.... i did you the courtesy of giving you a counter to your (lack of) argument

[unlimited-time]

Every culture that has ever lived on this planet has had some type of belief that centered around an afterlife. A select few didn't invent that. I hope you are right UT. It would be so much simpler if it was just over when we die. My gut tells me that that belief is just another absurdity too.

See i do believe that a select few in each culture made different "gods".What a better way of controlling your people than something they cannot see and dare not disobey just incase there is a all mighty power.
I cannot believe that there is a God watching over all of us.I wish i did believe because things that have happened in my life would be eased with the knowledge that particular loved ones were somewhere nice looking in on us every now and then.But i don't so it can be hard.
I remember a particulary long journey with a born again christian who managed to get the subject round to god after i was explaining to my Sis how clouds were formed.He disagreed with me insisting that God made them.Anyway we got onto the subject of who gets into heaven,much like Doc spoke about he said a child murder like Mirah Hindley would get into heaven because she had asked for forgiveness where as a child who had not been christened would not.
I understood from then on there is no point argueing with people who are like that because they believe what they believe and nothing you say will ever make them stray from what they believe.And it seems alot of religions have the same point of view.As i said before , all made up to scare people.
Oh also glad your not a bible basher Barry ( even though thats a cool name), i have nothing against people who believe in God everyone is free to believe whatever they like as long as they dont try to push any of it on me or tell me it's God's will.I hate that term.

[ucicare]

ok barry.. what makes a person a person.. what makes a human human?.. not just a potential person


A person becomes a person when they develop a personality I would guess. So a fetus would be a potential person. A human becomes a human when it is identifiable as a human by a simple DNA test that confirms its genetic blueprint as a human (I would venture.) I wonder if a fetus is identifiable as a human by DNA testing?

Maybe a fetus is really just a "blob of flesh" that is a "potential human person". Therefore it makes perfect sense to kill it if we want to, because it is an inconvenience to us. Since it is nothing anyway, and it is all about us.

So if I was able to develop a secret germ that would kill only the "potential human persons" conceived by Islamic terrorists, I would have found the perfectly moral, ethical, and pure way to wage the war on terrorism, wouldn't you say?

So, is it OK if I release a germ that causes all future pregnancies of terrorist and those who sympathize with them to spontaneously abort during the third trimester? We win the war through attrition, and no humans are killed or even injured. Sounds perfect to me.


Barry

[ucicare]

[/quote]
See i do believe that.....etc.[/quote]


UT, that was a pretty heart felt and sincere response. Thanks.
(No kidding, I mean it.)

Barry

[unlimited-time]

Abortion is a very tough subject.There is no clear cut answer to wether it is right or wrong.There are cases when i can see 100% why that woman had an abortion and there are other cases when i have been absolutly digusted by the woman having.Such as someone who has been raped and falling pregnant, now i can understand some women would be able to go though with the pregnancy and see past the fact that the child was born out of violence but other women would not beable to do that and it would harm them to carry on with the pregnancy.Now i understand it is not the childs fault how it was concieved but we have to decide at some point which life has the greater need at that precise moment in time.When abortion was illegal women died having abortions and they knew that the risks were great when they went down that road but they were desperate enough to take the risk.If someone is that desperate then they should have the option of having it done safely.
Now on the other hand there are cases where i think it's become to easy to have one, go in see a couple of doctors, they sign a form saying you are not mentally/ physically able to continue with the pregnancy and Bob's your uncle in the next week and it's all over.Money can buy u most things.What they don't tell you about is the mess afterwards.They take the money happily enough throw a couple of leaflets at you and remark casually about counciling if you need it and then let you get on.They don't tell you how you might feel afterwards, how even though everyone saying " oh you made the right choice" something inside you is telling you that you just killed your baby.They don't tell you about how for years to come you will think about it every anniversery and when it's due date was.Getting shit faced to block it out and all the poor bastards around you having to listen to you babble on.
They say a high percentage of women who have abortions fall pregnant again with 2 years of having it and keep it.Maybe some of these clinics need to inform and support women a little better than they do.
I do agree with abortions and think they are a necessity, i just think some people don't think hard enough about such a major life changing experience.

[pimpchichi]

so will these terrorist parents still have a choice?... ermmm nope...

i'm not particularly pro-abortion as such barry neither am i anti-abortion.. i am pro-choice...


interesting concept this racially selective germ warfare thingummy though... i 'm sure i read about it in some rightwingthinktank policy document

"... the art of warfare ... will be vastly different than it is today ...
“combat” likely will take place in new
dimensions ... advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific
genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a
politically useful tool."

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

oh yes.. there it is:)

[ucicare]

interesting concept this racially selective germ warfare thingummy though... i 'm sure i read about it in some rightwingthinktank policy document

"... the art of warfare ... will be vastly different than it is today ...
“combat” likely will take place in new
dimensions ... advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific
genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a
politically useful tool."

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

oh yes.. there it is:)


Darn, I really thought it was an original idea. I hate it when someone steals my ideas before I even have them.

Barry

[rescue me bettyx]

Hmm..I think that whatever a woman decides to do with her body should be her choice.

I don't understand what's so horrible about abortions. I mean it's better than her having the baby and not having any idea what to do with it. But once you have a child, pretty sure it'd be damn hard to give up. So abortion is kind of an easy way out. And I don't think fetus or babies have personalities til they're old enough; when they start realizing their surroudnings and how to adapt to them.



..might I say: Margaret Sanger.

[ucicare]

Abortion is a very tough subject....etc.


I must be under some kind of spell. I find myself admiring another reply by UT. Insight and honesty, what a combo.

Are you surprised to learn that I might actually believe that abortion may be necessary in some cases? I am not completely anti-abortion, I am just anti-easy, poorly informed, act of convienience, substitute for birth control, repetitive, on demand no matter what, abortions.

I also opposed to the idea that the fetus is not human. If we are going to suck a human apart on the choice of another human, at least acknowledge the act for what it is.

As far as choice - the woman had a choice not to get pregnant in the first place didn't she? (and don't cry rape. Pregancies occurring from rape that end in abortion make up a miniscule number of those performed.)

Back to the question though - what other absurdities or truths are you aware of?

Barry

[ucicare]

[quote="rescue me bettyx"]

"I don't understand what's so horrible about abortions."

I guess not, you weren't aborted.

"So abortion is kind of an easy way out."

Yeah and Amen. There is a statement for the "Confrontive Truth" column.


"And I don't think fetus or babies have personalities til they're old enough; when they start realizing their surroudnings and how to adapt to them."

True enough. As a matter of fact, science believes that personality does not fully develop until at least 18 years old. Hence the reason that "personality disorders" are not diagnosable before age 18. But the statement begs the questiion - so what? Is it Ok to kill a baby just because it has no personality yet? Thinking like that, it will soon be ok to kill a three month old. How much personality do they have? Duh?


Didn't mean to start an abortion debate. Really looking for examples of truth and the absurdity that attempts to refute it. Although I don't agree with Schmeds man in the sky thing, it is an excellent example of what I am talking about.


Barry

[ratatouille]

Abortion is a very tough subject....etc.


I must be under some kind of spell. I find myself admiring another reply by UT. Insight and honesty, what a combo.

Are you surprised to learn that I might actually believe that abortion may be necessary in some cases? I am not completely anti-abortion, I am just anti-easy, poorly informed, act of convienience, substitute for birth control, repetitive, on demand no matter what, abortions.

I also opposed to the idea that the fetus is not human. If we are going to suck a human apart on the choice of another human, at least acknowledge the act for what it is.

As far as choice - the woman had a choice not to get pregnant in the first place didn't she? (and don't cry rape. Pregancies occurring from rape that end in abortion make up a miniscule number of those performed.)

Back to the question though - what other absurdities or truths are you aware of?

Barry
hey, we could alway just start castrating men. that way no innocent blobs of tissue would die. how bout that Barry? You didnt leave the church, the church left you.

Of the 46 million abortions that occur each year, roughly 20 million are performed under unsafe conditions because of poorly trained providers, unsanitary circumstances, and crude and dangerous methods of self-inducement. Each year, an estimated 80,000 women die from complications of unsafe abortion, accounting for at least 13 percent of global maternal mortality. The vast majority of these deaths are preventable. Unsafe abortion also causes long-term health problems that range from chronic pelvic pain to infertility (AGI, 1997; WHO, 1998a; AGI, 1999).

Women often choose abortion when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Unplanned and unwanted pregnancies are a fact of life. They occur for a number of reasons: failure to use contraception; lack of access to family planning information and supplies because of political or economic circumstances; pressure from a sexual partner to not use contraceptives; contraceptive failure; and changes in circumstances that make a wanted pregnancy unwanted, such as abandonment, health problems, and financial difficulties (WHO, 1998a). In every society, across all religious, cultural, and economic differences, women face unplanned pregnancies as a result of trying to negotiate the difficult balance between having sexual relations and choosing whether and when to have children.

As long as there are unplanned and unwanted pregnancies, abortion will be a fact of life. When a woman decides to end an unwanted pregnancy, she will often go to extreme lengths to do so, regardless of whether the procedure is safe or legal. The rates at which women seek abortion are strikingly similar for women living in developed and developing countries (AGI, 1999). However, the chances of receiving a safe abortion vary widely and are determined by a variety of socioeconomic, legal, and cultural factors.

The Scope of Unplanned Pregnancy

Globally, nearly four in 10 pregnancies are unplanned (AGI, 1999). Many unplanned pregnancies result from the nonuse of contraceptives or from contraceptive failure. Couples may not use contraceptives because of traditional cultural beliefs and/or stigmas associated with particular methods. The World Health Organization estimates that between eight and 30 million unplanned pregnancies are the result of inconsistent or incorrect use of contraceptive methods, or from method-related failure (WHO, 1998a).

The Unmet Need for Family Planning

The sheer number of unplanned pregnancies — about 80 million each year — illustrates the enormous unmet need for family planning. Currently, 350 million couples around the world lack access to information about contraception and to modern methods of family planning. Between 120 and 150 million married women want to limit or space their pregnancies but lack the information and services to do so (WHO, 1998a; AGI, 1999).

How Many Women Undergo Abortion?

Each year, 46 million women around the world undergo abortion. Twenty-six million women who undergo abortion do so in countries with liberal abortion laws. The remaining 20 million undergo abortion in countries where abortion is either restricted or illegal (AGI, 1999).

Why Do Women Choose Abortion?

The reasons that women cite for choosing abortion are broadly similar throughout the world: Women may want to stop or postpone childbearing. They may have socioeconomic reasons for ending a pregnancy — they may not be able to afford the costs of having and raising a child, or they may want to continue pursuing their educational and career goals. Others may choose abortion because of relationship problems or because their pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. And still others may cite age or health reasons — they feel too young or too old to have a baby or that pregnancy will affect their own or their baby's health (AGI, 1999).

Factors that Determine the Safety of Abortion

When performed by trained providers in sanitary conditions, abortion is one of the safest medical procedures. But for many women, abortion can be cost-prohibitive, and trained providers can be hard to come by. Because of these limitations, a woman may delay getting an abortion until later in her pregnancy when the risk of complications rises.

In developing countries, regardless of the legal status of abortion, poor women in rural areas are at most risk of undergoing unsafe abortion. Trained providers may not be available or affordable. Women might choose to go to traditional practitioners or to self-induce abortion. Many of the methods used are based on cultural or traditional practices — prolonged, hard massage of the abdomen; repeated blows to the abdomen; insertion of stones, twigs, or sharp wire objects into the vagina and cervix; drinking or flushing the vagina with caustic substances, for example (AGI, 1999).

The Scope of Unsafe Abortion

Every day, 55,000 unsafe abortions take place — 95 percent of them in developing countries (WHO, 1998a). Worldwide, the maternal mortality rate due to unsafe abortion is 0.4 per 100 unsafe abortions. The highest rates occur in the developing world — 0.6 in Africa and 0.4 in Asia ( Mundigo & Indriso, 1999). In the developed world, the risk of dying from an unsafe abortion is one in 3,700 procedures (Mundigo & Indriso, 1999), but in Europe (primarily Eastern Europe) the risk is one in 1,900 procedures. In Latin America and the Caribbean the risk is one in 900 procedures, in Asia (excluding Japan, Australia, and New Zealand) it is one in 250, and in Africa it is one in 150 (WHO, 1998a; WHO, 1998b).

Another way to look at this disparity is to note overall death rates from abortion (whether safe or unsafe): in the developed world there are 0.2-1.2 maternal deaths per 100,000 abortions, whereas in the developing world (excluding China) the rate soars to 330 maternal deaths per 100,000 abortions. In Africa the rate is 680 per 100,000 abortions, in South and Southeast Asia it is 283, and in Latin America it is 119 per 100,000 abortions (AGI, 1999).

Because of anti-abortion social stigma and/or poverty, in the developing world, it is unsafe abortion, either self-induced or performed by an unqualified abortionist, that non-married adolescent girls most often seek — regardless of whether or not abortion is legal in their country. Because adolescents often seek unsafe abortions and because they tend to wait to seek abortion later than do older women, they are at greater risk of complications. Teenagers comprise a significant proportion of victims of unsafe abortion. A study done in Tanzania found that nearly a third of the victims of unsafe abortion were teenagers, of whom almost half were 17 years of age or younger; about one in every four were students in primary or secondary school. A safe procedure is very expensive in Tanzania and, therefore, unaffordable for most non-married young women there (Mundigo & Indriso, 1999; Mpangile et al., 1999).

Restrictive legislation is associated with higher rates of unsafe abortion and correspondingly high mortality. In Romania, for example, abortion-related deaths increased sharply when the law became very restrictive in 1966 and fell after 1990 with a return to the less restrictive legislation (WHO, 1998a).

Complications Resulting from Unsafe Abortion

The World Health Organization estimates that between 10 and 50 percent of women who undergo unsafe abortion have complications (WHO, 1998a). The most common complications are incomplete abortion, tears in the cervix, perforation of the uterus, fever, infection, septic shock, and severe hemorrhaging. It is estimated that 80,000 women die each year due to complications from unsafe abortion (WHO, 1998a). However, the actual number of deaths may be much greater because women who die outside of hospitals or in emergency wards may not have autopsies performed, and may not be identified as victims of unsafe abortion. (Mpangile, et. al, 1999; Paxman, et. al, 1993). Other serious long-term health consequences faced by women who have unsafe abortions include chronic pelvic pain, problems getting and staying pregnant, infertility, tubal blockage, and ectopic pregnancy (AbouZahr & Åhman, 1998).


Treatment of Complications from Unsafe Abortion

Whether a woman receives appropriate medical care for complications resulting from unsafe abortion depends largely on the proximity and availability of emergency facilities and trained health providers. Social, cultural, legal, and economic barriers may prevent women from accessing treatment as well. While most urban centers have hospitals, many poor women in rural areas simply don't have access to medical treatment when faced with complications. Treatment can be costly as it may require hospitalization, staff time, antibiotics, and blood transfusions.


How to Prevent Unsafe Abortion?

At the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD), the world's nations agreed that unsafe abortion is a major public health concern, and that governments should work to eliminate unsafe abortion and make abortion safer in countries where it is legal (UN, 1994; WHO, 1998a). Eliminating unsafe abortion requires an integrated, comprehensive approach involving health workers, policymakers, and advocates. Societies must

ensure high-quality, compassionate treatment for complications resulting from unsafe abortion that includes post-abortion and family planning counseling
provide universal access to family planning
reform restrictive laws and policies that hinder the availability of safe services and trained providers
ensure safe abortion services
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/library/abortion/unsafeab.html

[ucicare]

Yikes Rat, do you work for planned parenthood or something? That was a mega post.

Barry

Oh yeah - the Church may have left me, but my faith was never in the church anyway. I am not much different after being castrated, oops, I mean excommunicated.

Barry

[Nursey]

I started this post earlier this evening when it appeared you were leaving, but i think it still warrants posting despite your arrogance having slightly deflated.

Well, this is a rather ironic thread! In fact, i'd say it was quite an absurd reaction to your discovery that the truth was far from what you had so self assuredly (http://fugly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3796&start=45) and arrogantly (http://fugly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6126&start=105) declared! Perhaps there's a lesson for you to be learned right here, but that would take a certain degree of humility and large doses of honesty, and that takes quite a bit of courage and inner strength. You appeared to have no shortage of those when it came to your initial dealings with what you no doubt perceived to be a 'cakewalk' (to coin another arrogant little man's famous term) regarding your mental abilities in relation to the rest of us here, i mean, 'who'd have thunk' that a bunch of unruly, young 'netcreants' ( as i imagine we probably appeared ) might actually be the ones to challenge your comfortable, well set beliefs, what - with all that formal training designed to compartmentalise life to a formulaic blueprint which you could just slap over each personality, giving you a 'neat' little psychological profile of each one of the cyber-specimens you had under the microscope here?

As far as 'life after death' goes, my own experience and observations ( and understanding the 'Universal Key' (http://www.internalhealers.com/tcm/theory/yinyang.asp) ) lead me to believe that life is the equivalent of that small part of an iceberg that is visible dazzling, pellucid above the waves...insignificant in terms of mass proportionally speaking, and yet the part of greatest beauty that highlights the dazzling crystalline formation in the suns gleaming rays... and 'non-being' the equivalent of the great colossus that lurks imperceptibley - but with far greater bearing - just below the surface. The 'spirit' of the iceberg exists in its entirety, with no divide apart from the one we perceive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/iceberg.jpg

And i think saying "'God' doesn't exist" because of our bad experience of religeon is a case of 'chucking out the baby with the bathwater'. I believe that we are God when reduced to our most concentrated essence 'on the atomic level' all the way down to the core of our being where vortexes of energy resonate with our true instantaneous nature, and that on that level we are humming molecularly together as one, and that 'outside' of ourselves we are all one at the point of greatest expanse of universe and the greatest expanse of our being, and that both extremes of the poles outer and inner are one indivisible point of Being, which is what i am referring to when i say 'God'. And here in the middle, lieth 'you', 'me' and http://www.fugly.com/images/main/fuglylogo40x40.gif

[Dr.Roboto]

the whole problem little girl from texas, is that there is an inherent mess to clean up, biologicaly and mentaly. as previously stated, they dont tell you what happens or how you feel. sure you can go drop 300 on a abortion for your fuck up while fucking, but why should a innocent baby be sacrificed, for you accident? but i dont believe that a fetus is fully aware of its surroundings nore is it capable of producing an emotion or personality. i beleive in pro choice, but also think that abortions should be based on situation, if the mother is ill, if the baby will be born with severe defects, if the mother has been raped, or if the mothers finacial situation threatens the survival of other offspring ect. just as in nature there is a survival of the fittest, but in this sociaty we have the mean and ability to avoid this kind of thing. its a difficult and complex decision and topic to deal or debate.

[ratatouille]

Yikes Rat, do you work for planned parenthood or something? That was a mega post.

Barry

Oh yeah - the Church may have left me, but my faith was never in the church anyway. I am not much different after being castrated, oops, I mean excommunicated.

Barry
No I dont work for PP. I am woman who has a right to control my reproductive system since no man is going to do that for me, nor has a right to do that for me. So you got kicked out of Church, but its all okie dokie cause you werent really that into it anyway. I understand fully where you are coming from. The more you post, the more it becomes obvious what your true colors are.

[ratatouille]

the whole problem little girl from texas, is that there is an inherent mess to clean up, biologicaly and mentaly. as previously stated, they dont tell you what happens or how you feel. sure you can go drop 300 on a abortion for your fuck up while fucking, but why should a innocent baby be sacrificed, for you accident? but i dont believe that a fetus is fully aware of its surroundings nore is it capable of producing an emotion or personality. i beleive in pro choice, but also think that abortions should be based on situation, if the mother is ill, if the baby will be born with severe defects, if the mother has been raped, or if the mothers finacial situation threatens the survival of other offspring ect. just as in nature there is a survival of the fittest, but in this sociaty we have the mean and ability to avoid this kind of thing. its a difficult and complex decision and topic to deal or debate.
yeah, you want woman controlled and punished for spreading their legs. THEY SHALL REPENT AND SUFFER!

The health and well-being of women and children suffer the most in states that have the most stringent anti-abortion laws.

Compared to pro-choice states, anti-abortion states spend far less money per child on a range of services such as foster care, education, welfare, and the adoption of children who have physical and mental disabilities (Schroedel, 2000).

The states that have the strongest anti-abortion laws are also the states in which women suffer from lower levels of education and higher levels of poverty, as well as from a lower ratio of female-to-male earnings. They also have a lower percentage of women in the legislature and fewer mandates requiring insurance providers to cover minimum hospital stays after childbirth (Schroedel, 2000).

[ucicare]

The Rat wrote The more you post, the more it becomes obvious what your true colors are.

And that is a good thing or a bad thing? I didn't know that letting my "true colors" come out was anything to be ashamed of. I thought we were all about open discussion, open minds, diversity, acceptance, etc.

Strange how tolerance is such a one way street.

Barry [/quote]

[Dr.Roboto]

the whole problem little girl from texas, is that there is an inherent mess to clean up, biologicaly and mentaly. as previously stated, they dont tell you what happens or how you feel. sure you can go drop 300 on a abortion for your fuck up while fucking, but why should a innocent baby be sacrificed, for you accident? but i dont believe that a fetus is fully aware of its surroundings nore is it capable of producing an emotion or personality. i beleive in pro choice, but also think that abortions should be based on situation, if the mother is ill, if the baby will be born with severe defects, if the mother has been raped, or if the mothers finacial situation threatens the survival of other offspring ect. just as in nature there is a survival of the fittest, but in this sociaty we have the mean and ability to avoid this kind of thing. its a difficult and complex decision and topic to deal or debate.
yeah, you want woman controlled and punished for spreading their legs. THEY SHALL REPENT AND SUFFER!

The health and well-being of women and children suffer the most in states that have the most stringent anti-abortion laws.

Compared to pro-choice states, anti-abortion states spend far less money per child on a range of services such as foster care, education, welfare, and the adoption of children who have physical and mental disabilities (Schroedel, 2000).

The states that have the strongest anti-abortion laws are also the states in which women suffer from lower levels of education and higher levels of poverty, as well as from a lower ratio of female-to-male earnings. They also have a lower percentage of women in the legislature and fewer mandates requiring insurance providers to cover minimum hospital stays after childbirth (Schroedel, 2000).


no not really, but i believe that they should be responcible in their actions.

[Dr.Roboto]

oh yeah and if you think i just mean the ladies, no guys too. we are no different in who shares the blame or responcibility

[ucicare]

Don't try and put this off on me, you're busted. You love jeebus and gahd. How anyone dosn't believe in evolution is beyond me. You talk about scientific facts to bac k up your arguements, show me some irrefutable proof that this god you love exists and I'll show you apemen skulls...Barry!!

Proof that God exists? I'll give you just one, and then I'll ask you to give me one shred of evidence that God doesn't exist.

6 million people living and prospering smack in the middle of 6 Billion people who hate them with every shred of their fiber, and daily plotting their destruction. Simple mathmatical odds (can you say 1000 to 1 ) prove that some supernatural force keeps the nation of Israel in existence, as predicted 4000 years ago.

I'm patiently waiting on that one piece of evidence from you.

As far as evolution - it will one day be mentioned in the same breath with the flat earth and leeches. It is one of the greatest hoaxes every sprung on the public.

FYI -I am a scientist with the US Dept of Ed. accredted degrees to prove it. I don't believe literal 7 day creation fables, nor do I accept the fable that the modern human evolved from an ape man. You amaze me stating that you will show me skulls. You are so quick to accept the so called "evidence" offered by unreliable sources concerning evolution, yet you reject everything else as "lies" that our "Government" produces.

Two questions for you to research -

1. With modern DNA testing now at a state of great reliability, why are all the fossil records testing out to be either clearly primate or clearly hominiod? Why is the genetic "missing link" between ape and man still missing?

2. How is it possible for organisms to mutate from simpler to more complex designs? Doesn't a simple law of nature teach us that when things are left alone, they migrate toward the simplest of elements? For example, if you leave a car in you backyard for 100 years, it becomes a rust heap rather than a delorean doesn't it? I can accept the idea that Humans are evolving, as long as you state that we are deteriorating rather than progressing. (I can see the human race being reduced to primordal soup.)

So, if evolution is true, then a few billion years from now we should be perfect, all knowing, disease free, omnipotent, and immortal. Dang, that would make us God wouldn't it! So if you believe in evolution, then you have to believe that there is, or will be Gods. You and Nursey need to talk. She is already there with this idea.

Lots more where that came from.

One shred of proof that God doesn't exist. Waiting on that patiently.

Barry

[smiles]

my personal experience with women/girls who have had abortions has led me to conclude that although abortions should be legal and at the discretion of the woman, we should also educate and make sure that whose who have had abortions fully understand the consequences, both physical and mental, which abortion brings about

i state this simply because i know a person who has had three abortions in a span of two years... although i still believe it is her choice i can't help but make light of the wasteful disregard she exibits... it should be a last means as opposed to a regular fix

[Nursey]

6 million people living and prospering smack in the middle of 6 Billion people who hate them with every shred of their fiber, and daily plotting their destruction. Simple mathmatical odds (can you say 1000 to 1 ) prove that some supernatural force keeps the nation of Israel in existence, as predicted 4000 years ago.
:shock: Uh ohh...next you'll be saying it's alright to commit monstrous acts such as butchering babies in order to bring about the second coming...as many who also share such views believe.
"Simple mathematical odds"? That should read 'simplistic'. Or 'Disney'. You Barry, are a brainwashed, religious zealot from what i can see! For one, the whole planet is not daily plotting to destroy Israel, and secondly, they aren't exactly a bunch of simple, goat herding peasants... :roll: i think perhaps this might be the hidden hand in the equation...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/tcss.jpg
...i know to you the two are synonymous, but that doesn't look like God's hand to me!

[ucicare]

The stable and lucid Nursey writes[/quote]
:shock: Uh ohh...next you'll be saying it's alright to commit monstrous acts such as butchering babies in order to bring about the second coming...as many who also share such views believe.[/quote]


See what I mean about absurdity following?

Still waiting for that one piece of evidence that God (Intelligent Cause, lets say, not some long bearded sin smasher) does not exist. Just one.

But wait, you say that God does exist. and I'll quote you "I believe that we are God when reduced to our most concentrated essence 'on the atomic level' all the way down to the core of our being where vortexes of energy resonate with our true instantaneous nature, and that on that level we are humming molecularly together as one, and that 'outside' of ourselves we are all one at the point of greatest expanse of universe and the greatest expanse of our being, and that both extremes of the poles outer and inner are one indivisible point of Being, which is what i am referring to when i say 'God'. And here in the middle, lieth 'you', me and Fugly.

Somebody tell me how THAT is not absurd. Oh wait! If we all are God, then George W Bush is God too! I new it! GWB is GOD, and Nursey is the one that proved it! :D

Barry

[ucicare]

and one more absurdity Ms Nursey.....

Your cute poster above states " the ongoing extermination of Palestinian children can't go on with your help".


Truth - Many Palestinian families raise their children with the idea that strapping a bomb to themselves and blowing themselves up is honorable and holy.

Absurdity - It is Israel who is at fault for the death of these children.

Absurdity - Israel shoots and kills children who throw rocks at tanks.

Absurdity - Killing yourself is a rational act of religious purity.

Absurdity - Palestinians are peace loving people who only want to peacefully coexist with their Jewish neighbors.


Barry

[ucicare]

http://fugly.com/media/IMAGES/SAD/3.jpg



This called child abuse in backwards, repressive America.
Innocent Palestinians my eye. (spits)

Barry

[Nursey]

My truth must be confronting you again judging by the absurdity i see you posting, Barry! :o Are you denying that such groups (http://www.cesnur.org/testi/BrDavid_002.htm) of christian extremists exist? What makes your beliefs any more rational than theirs?
Here's the latest in a long, long list of what 'God's chosen people' have been up to:
Israeli soldiers serving in the Gaza Strip have reportedly admitted killing a 15-year-old Palestinian boy for sport. (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4BD8038-8970-4542-9E9C-E4FD18C11051.htm)

Video: Israeli soldiersgoing in for the kill - a thirteen year old schoolgirl is about to die (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7363.htm)

Israeli forces have shot and seriously wounded a four-year-old Palestinian child in Rafah, in southern Gaza, eyewitnesses and medical sources said.
Palestinian medical sources listed Shayma Hasan Abu Shammala in critical condition after she was hit by several bullets fired by an Israeli soldier manning a military tower near the Egyptian-Gaza borders on Sunday.
Eyewitnesses said the child was playing in the backyard of her home when the soldier opened fire on her. (http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=war_israel_palestine&Number=293143981#Post293143981)

Israel shocked by image of soldiers forcing violinist to play at roadblock
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1361755,00.html)

"Of all the revelations that have rocked the Israeli army over the past week, perhaps none disturbed the public so much as the video footage (http://www.horit.com/violin.htm) of soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.
The incident was not as shocking as the recording of an Israeli officer pumping the body of a 13-year-old girl full of bullets and then saying he would have shot her even if she had been three years old.

Nor was it as nauseating as the pictures in an Israeli newspaper of ultra-orthodox soldiers mocking Palestinian corpses by impaling a man's head on a pole and sticking a cigarette in his mouth.

But the matter of the violin touched on something deeper about the way Israelis see themselves, and their conflict with the Palestinians."
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041125/capt.jrl12111251826.mideast_israel_palestinians__c ommand_perfromance_jrl121.jpg


But look! At last!!!! Proof that God actually exists! :lol:

The wave of locusts that hit Israel over the weekend (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/503877.html)intensified Saturday evening, with a fresh swarm of relatively large locusts being spotted over the southern city of Eilat and with the insects reaching as far north as the southern section of the Dead Sea.

[ucicare]

My truth must be confronting you again judging by the absurdity i see you posting, Barry! :o Are you denying that such groups (http://www.cesnur.org/testi/BrDavid_002.htm) of christian extremists exist? What makes your beliefs any more rational than theirs?

Of course such groups exist. They are called extremists, and they are just as much a bunch of freaks as those who believe that crystals have some inherent magical powers. (Sorry if that hit too close to home.)

Now we are fighting with each other, and it hurts me so. We need some common ground to keep the connection going. I know what! Lets agree on something. How 'bout this - Vincent Foster was murdered and it was made to look like a suicide. I believe that to be true with all my heart, no kidding. Can I get an amen on that from my friend Nursey?

Can we agree that we both love to argue, and neither of us is really trying to hear what the other is saying? Back to 'ya.

Barry

[Nursey]

http://fugly.com/media/IMAGES/SAD/3.jpg



This called child abuse in backwards, repressive America.
Innocent Palestinians my eye. (spits)

Barry
Err...Barry...those [i]sure as hell[/bi aren't Palestinians! :? They look Pakistani or Afghani to me. These are Palestinians here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/israel2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/israeli-terror.jpg

[Checkmate]

Dear Barry,

While skimming through your dis-jointed posts, let me clarify a few things for you:

1) Babies are baptized for this reason, at one time men used to "take" women as they pleased, this ceremony is for purifying the child for the violent and torturous act that it was concieved in for the most part, and to purify the mother.

2) Abortion - I'm a man and I cannot comprehend the innerworkings of the female mind, body and spirit, as men we should just stay the hell out of the abortion issue all together, do we really need a say for five minutes work? it's not our body, we don't carry the child, we play a minor support role in the grand scheme of things, hence why males have ego's, macho bullshit, to make ourselves seem more important than we really are, women have always run things, and always will it's that simple.

3) Do you honestly believe that if there is a god that he would have anything to do with us as a race? after all we did nail his only son to a cross and torture him, it's pretty safe to assume that was the final straw, we are on our own here.

4) It disturbs me deeply that a person who appears to be at least on the surface resemble a normal person would form a point of view or opinion based on 1 idea, ideaology, religion etc etc wouldn't only a narrow minded person be guilty of this? I wish you were capable of seeing that you might want to take in more than one side, more than one train of thought, one philisophical view and not present your case will mal-formed bias and predjudice, can you not make up your own mind?

[Checkmate]

When I meet people from other cultures I know that they too want happiness and do not want suffering, this allows me to see them as brothers and sisters.

good advice if I have ever heard any.


A true statement from a true citizen of the earth. Just so I can understand, do I have to call the people who do want me to suffer "brother?"


Barry

you get what you give, if people wish you to suffer it's because in turn you have caused them to suffer.

[ucicare]

Checkmate,

I think very clearly, and for my self. Just because I don't parrot your
popular dribble doesn't mean Im wrong or that I am "brainwashed.".

And just for kicks please explain to me how this "clarifies" anything.
"Babies are baptized for this reason, at one time men used to "take" women as they pleased, this ceremony is for purifying the child for the violent and torturous act that it was concieved in for the most part, and to purify the mother.
nything."

I think the statement above falls into the category of the absurd.

Thanks for writing though. Keep trying to make sense and I'll keep trying to understand.

Barry

[Checkmate]

You tend to drone on in your posts, so as i stated above "I SKIMMED" just giving you some info on where your christening, baptismal ceremony comes from is all.

[ucicare]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/israeli-terror.jpg

Nice picture. Notice the large bag that the woman is carrying. Think the soldier is the least bit concerned that it could be a bomb? Every Palestinian knows not to walk up to a checkpoint with a bag like that in their hand. The child is being placed in imminent danger by the adult who is holding his hand and a duffel bag at the same time. CHILD ABUSE. Clear and simple.

And see the soldiers trigger finger? It is not on the trigger, it is in the "safe" position. This soldier is just doing his job, pure and simple. This picture is a classic example of Palestinian Propaganda. Shame on you Nursey for being deceived.

...and about the 13 year old girl that was killed? Did you notice that the commander of the unit that shot her was prosecuted http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7363.htm for what he did? Do you think it matters at all that the girl was in a forbidden are, was wearing blue jeans, a tee shirt and a suicide bandana, and was carrying a bag that looked like explosives? No one would deny that innocent people are killed. What is ludicrous is to think that the people and govenment of Israel approve of such.

Going on Schmeds theory of a country inflicting wounds on it's self - -
How about this thought - would a Palestian family set their own daughter up to be killed just to create a news event to "prove" the brutality of Israel? You are damn right they would. And dance at her funeral afterwards. They WANT their kids to be "martyrs". A promise of paradise for the dead kids sounds better to them than anything.

Why do you find that hard to believe, but you can easily believe that the US would bomb it's own trade center? Iron skullcaps. The only answer.\

Barry

[Nursey]

Barry...is clinically insanehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/undecided.gif

[ucicare]

You tend to drone on in your posts, so as i stated above "I SKIMMED" just giving you some info on where your christening, baptismal ceremony comes from is all.

In the future, I'll try to use smaller words and short sentences so that you can play along too.

1 - they ain't my ceremonies
2 - I know exactly where they came from
3 - quit skimming - have someone read to you if it is too much trouble to read for yourself.
4 - don't be too serious. this is for fun, not blood.
Barry

[ucicare]

Barry...is clinically insanehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nursey/undecided.gif

And dang proud of it....

Barry

[ucicare]

you get what you give, if people wish you to suffer it's because in turn you have caused them to suffer.

Really? So what suffering did Jesus inflict on the masses that caused them to want to torture him to death? Oh wait a minute..you have a point. He told them the truth, and it pained them so much they killed him for it.

That truth stuff does make people suffer. And makes them hate the one that speaks it and then makes them want to make that person suffer....I see now.


Barry

[ucicare]

http://www.robincmiller.com/articles/a71.htm


Here is a fairly objective article on the issue of children in the conflict.

I think this is from a reporters point of view, and is not someone trying to "prove" their radical position. Please read and comment.

Barry

[Checkmate]

No parent of any culture wishes more than the next generation to be better than the one that came before it. The universal spirit of motherhood crosses all race, cultural, etc boundaries, to think that a mother would sacrifice her children is absurd, have you ever visited Israel? Palestine? Turkey? Iran? Iraq? you can't stand on the sidelines and make arbitrary statements about peoples beliefs, when you have no first hand knowledge of their culture, religion, spiritual beliefs, you only report what you hear, read, indoctrineated with from western media, until your on the ground, have had first hand experience in the cultures you speak of, your opinion of the muslim world holds very little weight.

And let's not forget who pays the bills in america shall we, I believe at last count there was aprox. 19 Billion in "middle east" dollars flotaing through the american economy at any given second. Had america not funded the new Israel state, this whole mess might have been avoided.

I personally have met many people claiming to be Jesus in my work, and like the original that came before them, I think they share one thing in common, they are all mentally unbalanced. did it ever occur to you that Jesus could have been a sociopath? those types of personalities are quite persuasive.

[ucicare]

Just when I was thinking that checkmate might have something rational to say.....

Quote "to think that a mother would sacrifice her children is absurd"

Can you say abortion? Hello?

Quote "did it ever occur to you that Jesus could have been a sociopath"

The last time I looked, a sociopath, or antisocial personality disorder as it is now called, is about as far away from the historical account of Jesus as anything could be. I could make a good argument for an axis I dx of bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia, but not an axis II of anykind. You on the other hand....

"And let's not forget who pays the bills in america shall we, I believe at last count there was aprox. 19 Billion in "middle east" dollars floating around the county...."

Right. 19 billion from a national GDP of about about 19 Trillion dollars. May math is bad, but I believe that is a staggering 1%. God i hope they all don't pull out at once. We will never recover from the economic inpact.

Barry

[Checkmate]

Quote "to think that a mother would sacrifice her children is absurd"

Can you say abortion? Hello?

A feuts is not a child.

High order Sociopath's Include:

Jim Jones
David Koresh
Adolf Hitler
Jesus Christ

They are not antisocial disorders, they are infact very social people, very persuasive and very adept at exploting peoples need to believe. The fact that jesus was caught before he took his followers with him, well that was just a blessing. And the fact that the bible was written (or at least parts of it) by his followers is a testament to his ability to manipulate people. Just as he is manipulating you. "Jesus died for all our sins" I thank him, takes the stress off of me.

I find it interesting that the Saudi's are pulling the strings currently and having the American's do there dirty work in Iraq and effectively create a bigger share of the world's fossil fuel market for themselves.

[ucicare]

Quote "to think that a mother would sacrifice her children is absurd"

Can you say abortion? Hello?

A feuts is not a child.

High order Sociopath's Include:

Jim Jones
David Koresh
Adolf Hitler
Jesus Christ

They are not antisocial disorders, they are infact very social people, very persuasive and very adept at exploting peoples need to believe. The fact that jesus was caught before he took his followers with him, well that was just a blessing. And the fact that the bible was written (or at least parts of it) by his followers is a testament to his ability to manipulate people. Just as he is manipulating you. "Jesus died for all our sins" I thank him, takes the stress off of me.

I find it interesting that the Saudi's are pulling the strings currently and having the American's do there dirty work in Iraq and effectively create a bigger share of the world's fossil fuel market for themselves.

UCICARE replies...

How stupid of me to forget that a fetus is not a human. God I'm dumb.

Gola Meir said "there will be peace in Jerusalem when the Palestinians love the children more that they hate us"
Take a minute and read this- http://capmag.com/article.asp?id=2110


As far as the sociopath stuff - My goodness you don't know what you are talking about. deep sigh You sound like every untrained "counselor" who's only qualification is his desk.

Anti-Social Personality Disorder has nothing to do with not liking people. It is about not liking societies' rules.

Here is a brief description of the disorder from the DSM-IV, a book you obviously have never heard of.

Diagnostic Criteria -
There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
8. The individual is at least age 18 years.
9. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.
10. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

Read number 10 carefully. Jesus had lots of symptoms of a mental illness, none of which is consistent with Antisocial PD.

For example -
Grandiosity - he stated that he was God, or at least his son.
Magical thinking - he believed that he could raise the dead, etc.
He had angry outbursts - cleared a temple didn't he?
He believed he could see the future
He had sleep and appetite disturbances - bread to eat you know not of, etc.
He never held a steady job.
He was homeless and slept under bridges (or Jerusalems equivalent.)
He had a family history of mental illness - "virgin mary"
So Jesus was either pyschotic, or he was exactly who he said he was. A sociopath does not fit the diagnosis.


I'll give you a run down on why he might not have been psychotic later. There is a strong clinical argument for that too.


Barry










[/url]

[ucicare]

Just in case any of you missed this - NURSEY is arguing that George W Bush is God. Can you believe it?

Nursey writes - And i think saying "'God' doesn't exist" because of our bad experience of religeon is a case of 'chucking out the baby with the bathwater'. I believe that WE are God when reduced to our most concentrated essence 'on the atomic level' all the way down to the core of our being where vortexes of energy resonate with our true instantaneous nature, and that on that level we are humming molecularly together as one, and that 'outside' of ourselves we are all one at the point of greatest expanse of universe and the greatest expanse of our being, and that both extremes of the poles outer and inner are one indivisible point of Being, which is what i am referring to when i say 'God'. And here in the middle, lieth 'you', 'me' and GEORGE W BUSH.***





***editing ackowledged - she really said Fugly, not GWB, but if WE all are God, then guess what that makes the oval office cowboy?

[Schmed]

Barry Barry Barry, You always do this, I call you on your bullshit and you completly change the subject, I asked YOU to show ME scientific proof of the exsistence of god and instead of answering it, you try to ask for proof he dosnt exist. Well since you are to afraid to realize the truth, here is your poroof that god does not exist.

THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF WHAT SO EVER THAT A SUPREME BEING EXISTS!!!!

And you brag about your extensive education...sigh....well it just goes to show you that no matter how "educated" one is it does not make one smart.

Every post you make you turn into more of a raving religous zealot that is blinded by his "unwaivering" faith. Whats that sound, oh it's the whoosing of your claim that you take in and change your opinion when presented with facts going right out the door.

Evolution is all around us at all times, open your eyes, read a few books outside of the bible.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/milton.html


That should about sum it up, and there is a quote in there that I find more than a little close to describing your behavior...

I've been informed that Milton abandoned the debate because he felt that "the same ground was being gone over again and again". Indeed; I found Milton's continual evasions when asked for references to back up his claims more than a little monotonous myself.

If you replace "Milton" with Barry...it's uncanny.

[ratatouille]

The Rat wrote The more you post, the more it becomes obvious what your true colors are.

And that is a good thing or a bad thing? I didn't know that letting my "true colors" come out was anything to be ashamed of. I thought we were all about open discussion, open minds, diversity, acceptance, etc....

Barry
Exactly. That is my view of what is going on.

[ucicare]

Barry Barry Barry, You always do this, I call you on your bullshit and you completly change the subject, I asked YOU to show ME scientific proof of the exsistence of god and instead of answering it, you try to ask for proof he dosnt exist......

My apologies on changing the subject. I told you I have a problem with multitasking. How about I start a new topic that is narrowly focused on the one question - Does God exist or not, prove your position!

Dead serious here Schmed - I have been a Peeny-Costal Pew Jumper(childhood) a Pure Heathen (teenager) a New Age Disciple (college), a Hedonist (22-25) an Agnostic (25-29) a narrow minded evangelical (30-35) a secularly educated, more liberal and open minded fundamentalist (35-40) and after that, (I'm 45 now) I became a Demon Possessed member of the First Church of the Anti-Christ (if you believe the Pastor of the Church that just booted me).

At this point in my life I have refused to be pigeon holed into a label. I consider myself a Child of God, a spiritual member of the human race, of which all men/women are equal. I define GOD as the Supreme Intelligence, the Primal Cause, Good as opposed to Evil, One, yet larger than a tribal deity of the Jews, but most of all - unlike us, yet completely knowable and near to this inferior race of humans. And Jesus? I have plugged him into every hole there is, and he keeps popping back up as the one indispensable VIP in the cosmic design.

Please remember that I didn't bring up this subject of God. I came here originally to talk about an edited war video. But I clearly see that I can't get past any other subject until I defend my (by the way, personal )opinions on this "Jeebus and Gahd" you so nervously bash.

See my new topic later. Prepare to be challenged. I have had every blanket of religion pulled over me in the past, and I know where all the holes in the fabric are located.


Barry

[Schmed]

Barry Barry Barry, You always do this, I call you on your bullshit and you completly change the subject, I asked YOU to show ME scientific proof of the exsistence of god and instead of answering it, you try to ask for proof he dosnt exist......

My apologies on changing the subject. I told you I have a problem with multitasking. How about I start a new topic that is narrowly focused on the one question - Does God exist or not, prove your position!

Dead serious here Schmed - I have been a Peeny-Costal Pew Jumper(childhood) a Pure Heathen (teenager) a New Age Disciple (college), a Hedonist (22-25) an Agnostic (25-29) a narrow minded evangelical (30-35) a secularly educated, more liberal and open minded fundamentalist (35-40) and after that, (I'm 45 now) I became a Demon Possessed member of the First Church of the Anti-Christ (if you believe the Pastor of the Church that just booted me).

At this point in my life I have refused to be pigeon holed into a label. I consider myself a Child of God, a spiritual member of the human race, of which all men/women are equal. I define GOD as the Supreme Intelligence, the Primal Cause, Good as opposed to Evil, One, yet larger than a tribal deity of the Jews, but most of all - unlike us, yet completely knowable and near to this inferior race of humans. And Jesus? I have plugged him into every hole there is, and he keeps popping back up as the one indispensable VIP in the cosmic design.

Please remember that I didn't bring up this subject of God. I came here originally to talk about an edited war video. But I clearly see that I can't get past any other subject until I defend my (by the way, personal )opinions on this "Jeebus and Gahd" you so nervously bash.

See my new topic later. Prepare to be challenged. I have had every blanket of religion pulled over me in the past, and I know where all the holes in the fabric are located.


Barry

I'm not nervous about anything, but you did pretty much bring the subject up by knocking evolution, in the very first post in this thread... that might as well be bringing up god. Maybe you forgot so I won't call you stupid for it this time. But it really is just as good as saying it. I'm not even gona get into your demon possesion Barry. *cough**cough* *insane**cough**cough*

[ucicare]

http://www.shadoehaze.com/photo-galleries/misc3/bitchgoaway.jpg




FYI - Closing you eyes only makes it dark.

Where's that shovel....

Barry

[ucicare]

Voltaire, a famous Atheist, said " "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities."

Wow. An Atheist with insight.

Absurdity - "Fetuses are not babies"

Atrocity -
http://www.anael.org/aborto/imagenes/diagramacesar.jpg

http://www.anael.org/aborto/imagenes/curetaje.gif

Hey, I agree. They look nothing like baby humans to me!

If you want to be pro-choice, fine. Just be honest enough to admit that that "blob of tissue" left in the abortionists office looks exactly like the "blob of tissue" that brought it in there in the first place.

[Schmed]

Barry for being a self proclaimed educated person you don't catch on quick do you. No one here cares about your brainwashed babbling anymore, I mean for christ sake you already let a ..what was it..." man/boy who thinks comics books qualify as literature" make a fool out of you, that's gotta suck... I really enjoyed the way that you avoided the intial question I asked you to begin with and then after confronted with something you obviously couldn't argue against just gave up...

And furthermore what the hell do you care about killing babies in womens wombs for when you don't give a shit about innocent people dying all over the world (including women and children) from a war they did not bring upon themselves. You sir are a pompous, arrogant ,windbag.

[smiles]

my friend was in the israeli army for about 2 weeks before he got the fuck out of there... i have few Palestinian friends and they were talking about how the israeli army attacked some building they claimed was a terrorist stronghold and all they found were women and old people.. in turn my Israeli friend responded "and they let them live?" apparently the manuals with which they are instructed clearly state to shoot first and leave no room for doubt. I don't know how we got on this topic but barry does raise some interesting questions but he's far from proving a point, as we all are, few of us have first hand accounts and in my opinion that’s all that counts in any situation, relying on any source other then your own senses is like bending over at a pride parade during a power outage..... you're just asking to get fucked

[ucicare]

relying on any source other then your own senses is like bending over at a pride parade during a power outage..... you're just asking to get fucked


Good goobly woobly Smiles - that is a great line! If I credit you, can I use it in my next book?

Barry

[ucicare]

By the way, my next book will be my first book....

I wold like to keep thi thread going. The thing that started it was an observation I have made about people - paraphrased, "when people don't like the truth, they have to make up something absurd to rationalize avoiding or denying the truth."

A few more examples of absurities -

1. Drug abuse is a victimless crime. (Go back and read the thread Dubya started about the Crack Mom that pimped out her daughter. There is always a victim when drugs are involved.)

2. Sex between kids and adults is healthy if the child is willing. (Uh, hello, some people really believe this. See the Crack Mom story.)

You get the idea.

Barry

[pimpchichi]

ok barry.... #1.. i disagree... a few isolated cases do not prove your "always" point...

#2... i agree with you there though... mind you.. some countries would differ with you on the age of a child... it's 18 over there isn't it?... over here 16 is the age of consent

[ucicare]

Speaking of the War in Iraq -
"Never have so few battled against so many in face of overwhelming odds and brought a superpower to its knees...........It is indeed the greatest military victory in history."


ABSURDITY - just another example of the topic of this post.


Barry

[ucicare]

AB-SUR-DI-TY From the PETA website

Butterfly Release at California Mall Canceled
"PETA got a butterfly release canceled as part of the butterfly festival at a California mall. Children were going to be given nets to chase down and capture the released butterflies. After learning about the cruelty involved in raising and releasing butterflies, the mall administrators agreed to cancel the event and create a cruelty-free program."


Barry's note - I will bet that the fruitcakes protesting cruelty to butterflies are pro-choice. I have never a PETA head yet that was not. Butterflies have feelings too! Fetuses (human babies) don't.

AB-SUR-DI-TY

Screw the Whales and the butterflies too. Save the people.

Barry

[smiles]

Screw the Whales and the butterflies too. Save the people.

Barry

yeh cuz we all know THEY'RE sure in danger of becoming extinct,

barry your entire post above is a logical fallacy, you're trying to show two very different subjects as being somehow parallel, are you honestly trying to draw a comparison between something living being destroyed and something which was not yet brought to life, or even consciousness for that matter, as being the same thing. the right to life issue has more to do with the question of who's in charge of that baby while it is still in the mothers womb, the mother or the state and at what point does it stop being a part of the mother and become it's own independent entity. While something like a butterfly, an organism which indisputably is its own entity, is at our mercy and shouldn't be destroyed simply for our sick amusement

[ucicare]

Smiles,

I can see that the there is not a direct correlation between babies and butterflies. I stretched the comparision. What I am trying to do is simply illustrate how people stretch themselves into absurd thinking when they don't want to face the things that really matter.

Lets remember that there are probably very few sane people on earth who are "Pro-Abortion". Even the strongest "Pro-Choice" people are not going to rejoice when an abortion is the choice. I understand and support anti-cruelty laws for animals too. I am talking here about the way people focus on things that are really low on the scale of importance, and in so doing they drain credibility from themselves.

I could support PETA if they would stick with things that matter. Protesting the inhumane treatment of laboratory Rats is one thing. Prosecuting people for killing rats that infest their house is another. Read this and tell me it is not absurd.


From the PETA website -
New York City Rat Abuser Busted

"PETA was bombarded with calls from New York City residents horrified by newspaper articles and television news clips about a man who was using a bat to beat countless rats to death every night in the Bronx. We contacted the ASPCA, and the Health Department interceded and ordered the man to stop killing rats."

http://www.peta.org/about/victories-wild.asp?Campaign=wildlife&year=2004

and another -
http://www.helpinganimals.com/a-abuse.html.

Hope your Chritmas Day is bright!

Barry

[Schmed]

Don't argue with Barry he is like me , never wrong, except that he's wrong sometimes. :wink:

[ucicare]

Don't argue with Barry he is like me , never wrong, except that he's wrong sometimes. :wink:


Your are so right Schmed. Sometimes.

Barry

[smiles]

Smiles,


Lets remember that there are probably very few sane people on earth who are "Pro-Abortion". Even the strongest "Pro-Choice" people are not going to rejoice when an abortion is the choice.
Barry

what's the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice?

[ucicare]

Smiles,


Lets remember that there are probably very few sane people on earth who are "Pro-Abortion". Even the strongest "Pro-Choice" people are not going to rejoice when an abortion is the choice.
Barry

what's the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice?

To me, there is a big difference. Pro-Abortion means that someone looks at abortion in a favorable way. As a form or birth control, or population control, etc. The Chinese Government is Pro Abortion. They do not give people a choice. The second pregnacy is to be terminated, no matter what the mother wants.

Pro-Choice (to me) means that the person believes in the Woman's right o choose what happens to her body. They do not view abortion as a good thing, but rather as an option that is available. I am somewhat Pro-Choice. I just have a problem with people minimizing the act of abortion into something that is insignificant. (Just a fetus). Just call the act what it is.

Barry

[smiles]

actually they don’t terminate the pregnancy they just raise your taxes and such... if u keep having kids they'll sterilize your ass, i've never heard of them actually forcing an abortion

on another note barry this is where you apply your own personal views on to someone else, you can never see it their way and they will likely never see it yours, why? because it involves a complete paradigm shift, it’s not a discussion which will get anyone anywhere, it’s like a “tits or ass conversation?” (clearly ass but that’s besides the point)

[MEDICVET]

here goes my first attempt at postin a pic..I'm hopin not to get the 'dreaded red x', and at least have the link to the pic show up. It pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Also I include a link to my faith.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/amvet91alpha/statement%20pics/religioussheep.bmp

okay, don't know if it's going to be a pic, a link, or a red x, but am keeping my fingers crossed that it's not the latter.

now here is the link: www.uua.org

my next post on this thread will address some of the issues brought up in this thread in a more specific manner.

[ucicare]

my next post on this thread will address some of the issues brought up in this thread in a more specific manner.


Oh my God. Medicvet has awakened the sleeping giant.

Barry

[ucicare]

I'll post the picture for you. I agree totally with the message.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/amvet91alpha/statement%20pics/religioussheep.bmp

The giant is stirring. Be afraid.

Barry

[MEDICVET]

(sigh) well at least it wasn't a red x. and I have absolutely no idea how to put a pic on here now. oh well.

In Japan they have a buddhist ceremony where a woman who has either miscarried or had an abortion can light a candle and say a prayer for her unborn child. There is no condemnation if it is an abortion, and the religion respects the fact that it is a deeply personal and difficult choice, and neither belittles the woman nor takes it lightly. I wish more believed along those lines.

I believe in a supreme being, and that we have every right in the world to question the actions of this supreme being. After all, didn't Jacob wrestle with God according to some interpretations? And the old testament is part of three of the world's major religions.

I do not believe that those who do not believe in a specific manner are doomed to an eternity of torment. My God is a little bit bigger than all that petty bullshit, and realizes that it is what in a person's heart that matters, not which service they either are raised up to believe or have come to believe. To think that God limits God to only a specific faith is to belittle God.

I do not follow a strictly creationist viewpoint of how the earth was created, and think that Stephen Hawking has some pretty damn interesting ideas. I find it fascinating that the closer learned people get to the 'pure' science of metaphysics, the more spiritual their beliefs, and the more certain they are in the existence of a supreme being.

The ancient Greeks, with all their squabbling all to human gods and goddesses, still recognized that there was something bigger than all that. Temples to the deities would include a place with no statue representing this Deity to the "Unknown God". I find that both reassuring and humorous. Now that's what I call 'covering all yer bases'. ;)

[MEDICVET]

(sigh) well at least it wasn't a red x. and I have absolutely no idea how to put a pic on here now. oh well.

In Japan they have a buddhist ceremony where a woman who has either miscarried or had an abortion can light a candle and say a prayer for her unborn child. There is no condemnation if it is an abortion, and the religion respects the fact that it is a deeply personal and difficult choice, and neither belittles the woman nor takes it lightly. I wish more believed along those lines.

I believe in a supreme being, and that we have every right in the world to question the actions of this supreme being. After all, didn't Jacob wrestle with God according to some interpretations? And the old testament is part of three of the world's major religions.

I do not believe that those who do not believe in a specific manner are doomed to an eternity of torment. My God is a little bit bigger than all that petty bullshit, and realizes that it is what in a person's heart that matters, not which service they either are raised up to believe or have come to believe. To think that God limits God to only a specific faith is to belittle God.

I do not follow a strictly creationist viewpoint of how the earth was created, and think that Stephen Hawking has some pretty damn interesting ideas. I find it fascinating that the closer learned people get to the 'pure' science of metaphysics, the more spiritual their beliefs, and the more certain they are in the existence of a supreme being.

The ancient Greeks, with all their squabbling all to human gods and goddesses, still recognized that there was something bigger than all that. Temples to the deities would include a place with no statue representing this Deity to the "Unknown God". I find that both reassuring and humorous. Now that's what I call 'covering all yer bases'. ;)

[MEDICVET]

sorry about the double post there.

let me try the pic thing one more time:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/amvet91alpha/statement%20pics/fanclub.bmp

hope this works. knowing me I might have made it worse and actually produced a red x this time, lol. :D

and ty for postin the pic, barry.

[ucicare]

Try the "preview" button before you hit submit to make sure the page looks right.

www.UUA.org huh? Well what do you know. You and Nursey go to the same Church.

Barry

[MEDICVET]

fuck.

I had a very long response to that and then my computer crashed. :evil: I am ready to kill something now, or at least patch up a wound without the benefit of an enesthetic.

Suffice it to say that the UU church is a true 'all faith' one and welcomes a broad spectrum of people and their ways.

[MEDICVET]

and I fucking wish there was an edit button to allow me to correct grammatica and/or spelling errors after the fact.

But at least I get to fucking cuss without putting a quarter in a jar to give to the kids. :wink:

[MEDICVET]

grammatical*

[ucicare]

Suffice it to say that the UU church is a true 'all faith' one and welcomes a broad spectrum of people and their ways.


FYI- I was not being critical, just making an observation.

Barry

[Samanthasez]

Sixty minutes of thinking of any kind is bound to lead to confusion and unhappiness.









[/quote]

[MEDICVET]

Sixty minutes of thinking of any kind is bound to lead to confusion and unhappiness.









[/quote]

well that explains my major depressive disorder then. THANKS! :)

[Schmed]

"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in
almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."

[Schmed]

oops, forgot to credit it...Mark Twain

[Samanthasez]

LOL...glad that helped, Amy...


and...I DID credit it: James Thurber :P

[MEDICVET]

my favorite story by Thurber is 'the secret life of walter mitty'. Matter of fact it's one of my screen names at a chatroom i sometimes go to. ;)